unformed 0 #101 December 19, 2006 QuoteQuotewhich many people on this forum have done when they have said, in effect: "I reject God." What is the difference, if any, between 'I reject God' of the athiests, and the 'I just don't know either way' of the agnostics? Or for that matter, "I believe in multiple gods" of the Hindus or "I believe in the Way" of Taoists or "I believe in Zeus" of the ancient Greeks?This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #102 December 19, 2006 Quoterather than thinking of God as an executioner with his hand on the switch, who could let you off if he wanted to, instead I think we need to emphasize the importance of free will on the part of the individual. I give you the free will to either accept me as your God and saviour or be tortured for eternity."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #103 December 19, 2006 QuoteQuoterather than thinking of God as an executioner with his hand on the switch, who could let you off if he wanted to, instead I think we need to emphasize the importance of free will on the part of the individual. I give you the free will to either accept me as your God and saviour or be tortured for eternity. Well, the torture is simply symbolic, so it's only going to affect those who believe in it and hence allow themselves to be tortured, since by being human, they've already sinned. The rest of us, however, that don't believe that it really symbolizes anything won't be tortured and so, as long as we don't feel any guilt, we can go on being human, and thereby sinning.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #104 December 19, 2006 QuoteYou don't go to hell because God is itching to put you there. You go to hell ALL BY YOURSELF. You can seperate yourself from god thru sin (which we all do). And you can seperate yourself from god in the more deliberate manner, which many people on this forum have done when they have said, in effect: "I reject God." Bullshit. If God existed then it wuld be his decision to make hell, his decision to set ridiculous standards upon it and his responsibility when people end up there. BTW, no one here rejects God, that would imply we thought he existed. QuoteMuch of the description of the physicality of torture (a lake of fire, or a pit, or a burning garbage dump [gehenna]) is symbolic. Jesus had to get through to the Jews in a way that the Jews would understand, since at that time many of them didn't have much of a belief in an afterlife at all. The torment will be separation from God. How do you know that? Is there a passage in the bible that says "PS. for those of you reading this in the future, I didn't really mean it I just wanted to sound impressive"?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #105 December 19, 2006 maybe it's just a matter of a different approach of explaining it. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #106 December 19, 2006 QuoteBullshit. If God existed then it wuld be his decision to make hell, his decision to set ridiculous standards upon it and his responsibility when people end up there. Not really. If you choose to live without God, then it would be your choice. Not to be with God in the afterlife = hell. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #107 December 19, 2006 yea and maybe the bible is what ever you want it to be. Every person that reads it has their own interpretation. I see it as a mythology just like Greek and Roman mythology. The only difference is people still believe in the bible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #108 December 19, 2006 well, we'll see. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #109 December 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteBullshit. If God existed then it wuld be his decision to make hell, his decision to set ridiculous standards upon it and his responsibility when people end up there. Not really. If you choose to live without God, then it would be your choice. Yep, a choice analogous to "Here are three identical boxes, choose the right one and you get the grand prize, choose one of the others and you leave with nothing"Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #110 December 19, 2006 not a very good analogy at all. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #111 December 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteBullshit. If God existed then it wuld be his decision to make hell, his decision to set ridiculous standards upon it and his responsibility when people end up there. Not really. If you choose to live without God, then it would be your choice. Yep, a choice analogous to "Here are three identical boxes, choose the right one and you get the grand prize, choose one of the others and you leave with nothing" No that's not quite right. You get the grand prize only after you die.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #112 December 19, 2006 QuoteThere are so many different interpretations of the bible how do you know what is correct?? This is a prime example. Your concept of hell is so different from Pajarito's You're right. That is why I studied theology. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #113 December 19, 2006 Study theology?? That just as much a joke also. How would that make your interpretation any better then anyone else's?? You can't prove that your interpretation is more accurate then Pajaritos. You can read the bible a million times backwards and forwards and it wouldn't prove any more useful nor would it make your interpretation any more credible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #114 December 19, 2006 Quotenot a very good analogy at all. Wrong again. There are many boxes in the world, all very well presented and extremely persuasive, especially to those born within sight of that particular box. Choosing any single one is a blind gamble.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #115 December 19, 2006 QuoteAccording to your reasoning. If Adolph Hitler accepted Jesus Christ as his saviour on his death bed then he would be sent to heaven. If the Dalai Lama rejected Jesus Christ as his saviour on his death bed then he would be sent to hell. And you wonder why people reject your notion of God. Based on his actions, I doubt very seriously that Adolph Hitler would have ever sincerely humbled himself to recieve Christ as his Savior. His life would have shown evidence of the work of the Holy Spirit. Even if he claimed to be Christian, I doubt there was ever a true conversion. I doubt he was born again. Quote"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Matthew 7:15-23 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #116 December 19, 2006 QuoteI for one would not wish an eternity of torment on anyone, not even on Osama bin Laden or Adolf Hitler. Neither does God. QuoteThe Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #117 December 19, 2006 QuoteEven a judge puts a limit on his punishment of criminals, and yes, I consider death or life imprisonment a limit. No caring being would put someone in pain and torture for all eternity, that just doesn't make sense. If there is a god, I could understand sending someone to hell for sins they committed in life, but I could never believe in a god that put someone there forever, every crime (sin) should have a limit of punishment, maybe a hundred years in hell, maybe a thousand, maybe adolf hitler deserves a hundred thousand years in hell, but there should still be a limit. Perfect holy, just, loving God. Standard of righteous perfection. Against that standard, the smallest sin is "exceedingly sinful" in the eyes of God. QuoteHas then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. Romans 7:13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #118 December 19, 2006 I still wouldn't mind knowing, seriously, what makes the Christian God more correct than the Hindu gods, Buddha, the Tao, and Zeus.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #119 December 19, 2006 QuoteI still wouldn't mind knowing, seriously, what makes the Christian God more correct than the Hindu gods, Buddha, the Tao, and Zeus. Pity you don't seem to know what a couple of those religions are about.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #120 December 19, 2006 QuoteStudy theology?? That just as much a joke also. How would that make your interpretation any better then anyone else's?? You can't prove that your interpretation is more accurate then Pajaritos. You can read the bible a million times backwards and forwards and it wouldn't prove any more useful nor would it make your interpretation any more credible. I'm not sure I ever said my interpretation is better tha Paj or anyone elses. I'm not out to prove I'm right and Paj is wrong or I'm right and you are wrong either. However, I do believe I have greatly benefited from studying scripture from many standpoints. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #121 December 19, 2006 hmm it seems to me that your belief isn't very strong if you can't declare your interpretation is not better then Pajaritos. Why not believe what Pajarito believes? His interpretation is just as valid as yours. It's rooted in the same evidence that yours is, the bible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #122 December 19, 2006 Quotehmm it seems to me that your belief isn't very strong if you can't declare your interpretation is not better then Pajaritos. Why not believe what Pajarito believes? His interpretation is just as valid as yours. It's rooted in the same evidence that yours is, the bible. We can disagree all day long on the minor stuff. What we need to agree on are the things with regard to salvation. Everything else is really just interesting discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #123 December 19, 2006 Paj & I agree on the essentials of Christianity. As Augustine said: In the essentials UNITY, In the non-essentials: LIBERTY, In all matters: Charity (love) steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #124 December 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteI still wouldn't mind knowing, seriously, what makes the Christian God more correct than the Hindu gods, Buddha, the Tao, and Zeus. Pity you don't seem to know what a couple of those religions are about. Don't keep us in suspense. Enlighten us.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #125 December 20, 2006 Well, to begin with, Buddha isn't a religion, he was a man; Buddism is the religion he founded. Buddism has no "god"; neither does Taoism. Looking back at the original quote I was reacting to, it seemed as if there was some confusion there. If not, then I offer my apologies. Perhaps it was my misunderstanding of the way it was written. In any case, Christianity is not mutually exculsive of Hinduism, Buddism nor the Tao, except perhaps in the minds of a fundamentalist Christian. So, there is no, "more correct" only more knowledge.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
