JohnRich 4 #1 December 15, 2006 News, New Jersey:Court Voids Illegal Gun Rationing Law In a lengthy and carefully reasoned decision read from the bench December 13, New Jersey Superior Court Judge Maurice Gallipoli declared Jersey City’s one gun a month handgun rationing law null and void, holding that it violates state pre-emption, equal protection, and was "arbitrary and capricious." Ordinance #06-116 – whose stated objective was to reduce crime – wildly missed the mark by rationing handguns to persons pre-certified by the State as non-criminals after undergoing extensive background checks. "Rationing gun sales to law abiding citizens is about as effective at reducing crime as rationing alcohol to responsible drinkers is at reducing drunk driving accidents," said Scott Bach, President of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, which initiated the lawsuit against Jersey City. "You can’t reduce crime by disarming victims, and that’s exactly what this ill-conceived law did," Bach said. Source: New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #2 December 15, 2006 I still want my OWN... SAW.... so I can be part of that whole well regulated Militia thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #3 December 15, 2006 Your not going to get an interesting poll result this time. Most people appear to fall in one of two categories here: 1 - ZERO guns forever (unless you are a major actor/actress and lean left) 2 - It's none of my business what other people own ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #4 December 15, 2006 a silly, arbitrary law that accomplishes nothing in the real world, except giving a politician something he can point to & pretend he's doing something. Just my opinion. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,076 #5 December 15, 2006 I'm afraid I'm an outlier, then. I think every sane, law abiding adult in the US has the right to buy and own guns. I am also in favor of laws that prevent criminals (past or present) from buying them. If someone down the street committed a felony, then yes, the community does have a right to know whether he is preparing to do it again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZJ 0 #6 December 15, 2006 What a bizarre piece of legislation. Also, Maurice Gallipoli is an awesome name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orribolollie 0 #7 December 15, 2006 Most people appear to fall in one of two categories here: 1 - ZERO guns forever (unless you are a major actor/actress and lean left) 2 - It's none of my business what other people own Quote Where do you fall? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites orribolollie 0 #8 December 16, 2006 ONE GUN A MONTH? rationed to? Like, how many guns is any normal person buying per year anyhow? Someone tell me thats actually a lot more than the average US consumer is buying a month anyway? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #9 December 16, 2006 Kinda screws up being a collector if there is a matched set of something for sale, or a bargain on more than one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites orribolollie 0 #10 December 16, 2006 I suppose so yeah, in the case of a legitimate collector that would be a shame. Maybe they could apply it to newly manufactured guns? Nah, im just going to shut up. I know there are a myriad of gun efficianados in the US. Still given these two points...still a lot of gun purchases surely? I cant imagine this legislation being to popular with Charlton Heston. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #11 December 16, 2006 QuoteIf someone down the street committed a felony, then yes, the community does have a right to know whether he is preparing to do it again. FWIW, in most states, convicted felons are prohibited from owning, buying or selling guns. Not like that stops them. But it's unlikely a convicted felon desiring a gun will go the route of submitting a form to the government asking for permission. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites willard 0 #12 December 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteIf someone down the street committed a felony, then yes, the community does have a right to know whether he is preparing to do it again. FWIW, in most states, convicted felons are prohibited from owning, buying or selling guns. Not like that stops them. But it's unlikely a convicted felon desiring a gun will go the route of submitting a form to the government asking for permission. It is Federal law that anyone convicted of a felony punishable by one year or more imprisonment (regardless of actual sentence given or served) is prohibited from even touching a firearm or ammunition unless granted an exemption by a Judge. Unforunately this is one of those laws that is seldom enforced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,076 #13 December 16, 2006 >It is Federal law that anyone convicted of a felony punishable by one year >or more imprisonment (regardless of actual sentence given or served) is >prohibited from even touching a firearm or ammunition unless granted an >exemption by a Judge. Unforunately this is one of those laws that is >seldom enforced. I recall a gun proponent here gleefully telling me that it was unconstitutional to even ask people buying guns whether they were felons. People like that are the reason that I don't generally consider myself on the pro-gun side of things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites willard 0 #14 December 16, 2006 Whoever told you that knew not of what he spoke. A licensed dealer is required to have a "yellow form" filled out by the prospective buyer on which the buyer affirms that they are not a felon, drug addict, illegal alien, etc. No form=no sale. A private seller, however, is not required to ask but can be and, in more than one case, has been held partially responsible for crimes committed by a felon to whom he had sold a firearm as well as being charged with illegal transfer of a firearm. You are not only within your rights to ask but would be prudent to do so. If a potential buyer has a problem with that then it would be wise to stay clear and refuse to sell. I agree with your assessment of someone who would take enjoyment from thinking they had found a "loophole" by which they could sell to someone who otherwise would be unable to purchase a firearm. The sad fact is, the states and feds are always passing new gun laws but provide no financing to enforce them. These laws then inevitably fail to slow the rise in crime leading to the thinking that even more laws are needed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #15 December 16, 2006 Quote I recall a gun proponent here gleefully telling me that it was unconstitutional to even ask people buying guns whether they were felons. People like that are the reason that I don't generally consider myself on the pro-gun side of things. You never bought a gun in California before. It asks quite a few questions, then the DOJ has 10 days to do something that other states can do in minutes. The one gun a month means it will cost more, both in lost bargaining and having to pay the DROS fee each time. (Nevermind the POS trigger lock you're required to buy for each - I have quite a collection of em now.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #16 December 16, 2006 One gun a month? Well, ok... I may need to get a larger safe, though.... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #17 December 16, 2006 I recall a gun proponent here gleefully telling me that it was unconstitutional to even ask people buying guns whether they were felons. People like that are the reason that I don't generally consider myself on the pro-gun side of things. Please tell me who so I can straighten them out on this matter ASAP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orribolollie 0 #8 December 16, 2006 ONE GUN A MONTH? rationed to? Like, how many guns is any normal person buying per year anyhow? Someone tell me thats actually a lot more than the average US consumer is buying a month anyway? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #9 December 16, 2006 Kinda screws up being a collector if there is a matched set of something for sale, or a bargain on more than one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orribolollie 0 #10 December 16, 2006 I suppose so yeah, in the case of a legitimate collector that would be a shame. Maybe they could apply it to newly manufactured guns? Nah, im just going to shut up. I know there are a myriad of gun efficianados in the US. Still given these two points...still a lot of gun purchases surely? I cant imagine this legislation being to popular with Charlton Heston. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #11 December 16, 2006 QuoteIf someone down the street committed a felony, then yes, the community does have a right to know whether he is preparing to do it again. FWIW, in most states, convicted felons are prohibited from owning, buying or selling guns. Not like that stops them. But it's unlikely a convicted felon desiring a gun will go the route of submitting a form to the government asking for permission. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willard 0 #12 December 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteIf someone down the street committed a felony, then yes, the community does have a right to know whether he is preparing to do it again. FWIW, in most states, convicted felons are prohibited from owning, buying or selling guns. Not like that stops them. But it's unlikely a convicted felon desiring a gun will go the route of submitting a form to the government asking for permission. It is Federal law that anyone convicted of a felony punishable by one year or more imprisonment (regardless of actual sentence given or served) is prohibited from even touching a firearm or ammunition unless granted an exemption by a Judge. Unforunately this is one of those laws that is seldom enforced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,076 #13 December 16, 2006 >It is Federal law that anyone convicted of a felony punishable by one year >or more imprisonment (regardless of actual sentence given or served) is >prohibited from even touching a firearm or ammunition unless granted an >exemption by a Judge. Unforunately this is one of those laws that is >seldom enforced. I recall a gun proponent here gleefully telling me that it was unconstitutional to even ask people buying guns whether they were felons. People like that are the reason that I don't generally consider myself on the pro-gun side of things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willard 0 #14 December 16, 2006 Whoever told you that knew not of what he spoke. A licensed dealer is required to have a "yellow form" filled out by the prospective buyer on which the buyer affirms that they are not a felon, drug addict, illegal alien, etc. No form=no sale. A private seller, however, is not required to ask but can be and, in more than one case, has been held partially responsible for crimes committed by a felon to whom he had sold a firearm as well as being charged with illegal transfer of a firearm. You are not only within your rights to ask but would be prudent to do so. If a potential buyer has a problem with that then it would be wise to stay clear and refuse to sell. I agree with your assessment of someone who would take enjoyment from thinking they had found a "loophole" by which they could sell to someone who otherwise would be unable to purchase a firearm. The sad fact is, the states and feds are always passing new gun laws but provide no financing to enforce them. These laws then inevitably fail to slow the rise in crime leading to the thinking that even more laws are needed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #15 December 16, 2006 Quote I recall a gun proponent here gleefully telling me that it was unconstitutional to even ask people buying guns whether they were felons. People like that are the reason that I don't generally consider myself on the pro-gun side of things. You never bought a gun in California before. It asks quite a few questions, then the DOJ has 10 days to do something that other states can do in minutes. The one gun a month means it will cost more, both in lost bargaining and having to pay the DROS fee each time. (Nevermind the POS trigger lock you're required to buy for each - I have quite a collection of em now.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #16 December 16, 2006 One gun a month? Well, ok... I may need to get a larger safe, though.... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #17 December 16, 2006 I recall a gun proponent here gleefully telling me that it was unconstitutional to even ask people buying guns whether they were felons. People like that are the reason that I don't generally consider myself on the pro-gun side of things. Please tell me who so I can straighten them out on this matter ASAP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #18 December 16, 2006 Quote I still want my OWN... SAW.... so I can be part of that whole well regulated Militia thing. Then get your Class III and buy one. Its not an incredibly difficult process for a law abiding citizen. Its relatively expensive, though. If you want to go cheaper, Sears has a nice selection of saws. Harbor Freight has a nice selection too, if you're on an even tighter budget; however, they don't stand up to real life scenerios where you depend on your saw very well.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #19 December 16, 2006 QuoteIf you want to go cheaper, Sears has a nice selection of saws. Harbor Freight has a nice selection too, if you're on an even tighter budget; however, they don't stand up to real life scenerios where you depend on your saw very well. Hell man I ALWAYS did really well with my SAW... in DOOM and DOOM II....... Let the gore fly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #20 December 16, 2006 QuoteNevermind the POS trigger lock you're required to buy for each - I have quite a collection of em now. Can you resell them, so that when someone else buys a gun, and has to buy the trigger lock, they could purchase the trigger lock from you?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #21 December 16, 2006 I think I'd buy the first one and keep bringing it in for subsequent purchases... "Got a lock?" "Yup, got it right here..." Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #22 December 16, 2006 QuoteI think I'd buy the first one and keep bringing it in for subsequent purchases... "Got a lock?" "Yup, got it right here..." How does the law work, exactly? I was under the impression that you had to purchase a lock for each gun. I think most responsible gun owners try to ensure their guns are stored safely. If a gun owner is "irresponsible" I doubt owning a trigger lock is going to change the manner in which the gun is stored.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #23 December 16, 2006 QuoteI still want my OWN... SAW.... so I can be part of that whole well regulated Militia thing. I'd like to have an M198 for home/self defense. I'm not quite sure how to go about acquiring one, though.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #24 December 16, 2006 Quotea silly, arbitrary law that accomplishes nothing in the real world, except giving a politician something he can point to & pretend he's doing something. Just my opinion. ___________________________________ Seems to me, the politicians could've found something better to work on during their past year, '3-month' work period! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #25 December 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteI still want my OWN... SAW.... so I can be part of that whole well regulated Militia thing. I'd like to have an M198 for home/self defense. I'm not quite sure how to go about acquiring one, though. I think that to posses it .... Need to start with a type 1 FFL license (ATF website) [or maybe.... a C&R (curio and relic) license (read Chapter 11 of the book referenced below)]. Then you need to contact the NFA Branch (National Firearms Act Branch). Get the forms for Type 09 dealer, Type 10 manufacturer or Type 11 importer FFL license to allow you to deal in destructive devices. Then there's the Destructive Device license itself from the ATF (only $3000 for a three year license ATF but those are 1999 pricings.) And there's all the questions on what is and isn't a destructive device. For further clarification: refer to Chapter 23 of Machine Gun Dealers Bible by Dan Shea And not only the Howitzer but also each round (because it's over 50cal.) is considered a destructive device and has a $200 tax per item. And they're hard to carry around. You can play with the big dogs... but you just gotta be willing to pay. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
