proof that 9/11 was planned by us gov.

[skinnyflyer 0]

this is a must see;

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8172271955308136871&q=911mysteries

(they keep deleting it so if its not there just search videogoogle for 911mysteries)

please don't comment unless you watch it.

also check out;

http://911research.wtc7.net/index.html

spread the links to everyone.

"Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives."
A. Sachs

[AggieDave 6]

You can believe it if you want, but the basic tennet of the video is that "steel can not burn." Which is a quote from the video.

Steel can and will burn. It takes an extreme amount of heat, but it can and will burn. If you've ever done any sort of metal work you would know that.

The "boom" of an "explosion" predated the collapse. Of course it did, it was the sound of the floors collapsing prior to the central structures collapsed allowing for the building to collapse.

The section talking about the temperature of the fire is using outside visual data, which is less then reliable data at the very least. "Well, it didn't look hot, since it was orange flames on the outside..." Whatever, since no one is alive that saw or felt what the fire really was doing on the inside.

Its a Titanic arguement. "It couldn't have happened since it was designed not to happy, sure it couldn't really happen at all, its impossible because we said its impossible." This is regardless of the fact that it did happen.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skinnyflyer 0]

firstly you couldn't have watched the whole video because of the time of your post.

secondly all the evidence clearly indicates a controlled demolition;
-puffs of smoke often dozens of floors below the demolition.
-freefall speeds; both towards fell in 8-10 seconds which is physically impossible without explosives removing any resistance.
-"rivers of molten steel'' found at the base of the towers
molten steel seen dripping from one of towers.
-experts agree temperatures not hot enough to melt steel.
-multiple eye witness accounts of multiple explotions
(including video footage of ruble in the basement before any collapse-a fifty ton press demolished in the basement before any collapse)
-wtc building 7-a 47 story building mysteriously collapses exactly like a controlled demolition- which the official investigation is unable to explain.
-no steel skyscraper has ever or since collapsed due to fire despite much hotter and longer burning fires.
-all ruble(evidence) was quickly removed so no one could examine it.
-virtually all concrete was pulvarized to dust.
all three buildings fell symmetrically into their own footprint.
etc. etc. etc.

seems pretty obvious to me

"Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives."
A. Sachs

[mnealtx 0]

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firstly you couldn't have watched the whole video because of the time of your post.

Various conspiracy theorists have been touting this crap for the last 5 years...we've ALL seen it before, AND discussed it, as a quick search would have shown you.

Click here

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[AggieDave 6]

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firstly you couldn't have watched the whole video because of the time of your post.

I saw the first half before, I fast forwarded this time around to the part I hadn't watched.

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seems pretty obvious to me

Like I said, believe it if you want. Personally I find it laughable. People believe whatever they want to believe. Like these people: http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm
http://www.wave.net/upg/gate/

In another 100 years this will continue to be debated, simply because people tend to look for conspiracies where there are none. Black helicopters and thousands of people that keep their mouth shut while working to undermine the lives of hundreds of thousands of other people. Yet no one comes forward from the "inside" telling the "true" story. Its all supposition from the outside few.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[rhys 0]

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For instance, I respect his right to freedom of speech. I still think he's an asshat spreading lies, though

you said this once. you were talking about Michael Moore. what about you govornment and how they inform you of lies to keep you interested, and START WARS? do you dismiss the fact that this could 'possibly' be a conspiricy by the govornment?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[ExAFO 0]

I like trout.


No, really. I like trout. A lot.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[AggieDave 6]

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you said this once. you were talking about Michael Moore.

Yup. I still stand by that statement about Michael Moore.

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do you dismiss the fact that this could 'possibly' be a conspiricy by the govornment?

Yes.

The US government can't even hold a session of congress without leaks spreading through the media. Its top secret aircraft are seen and known about before they're shown to the public. Even our "black ops" involving spec op wars against small groups in "friendly" countries are publically known. How the hell is the government going to keep something as big as a 9/11 conspiracy under wraps for 5 years and out of the hands of big media? It can't. Too many people are involved, too many people to keep a secret. So some independant people come together and make a documentary using circumstancial evidence? Does it convince me beyond a reasonable doubt? Nope. Not in the least. Does it plant a seed of doubt? Nope. Does it make me question my government? This doesn't, its much too laughable. Do other things make me question what the government is doing? Sure they do, that's apart of being American and excersizing your rights.

Can you believe the video if you want to? Sure thing, go ahead. Will I agree with you? Nope. Do I care if you agree with me? Nope, not in the least.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I do not trust this current US government. But I don't believe in the conspiracy theories. 9-11 was real as far as I'm concerned. Radical Islam did attack America that day.

There was a very good BBC show I saw earlier in the year. I wish I could remember what it was called ... I guess I could always look back at my history here in DZ.COM because I commented here soon after I saw it. Anyway it painted the world in a very good easy to understand picture on how an element of radical Islam is out there hell bent on killing Americans and yes this element was responsible for knocked down those towers. But at the same time, these extremists aren't as big, as scary and as organized as the US government makes them out to be. The US government is using scare tactics on their own citizens in order to get the lemmings to back their agenda (which appears to be Imperialist expansion while keeping the Military Industrial Complex running and thus keep the American economy in tune).

Isn't war nice and sanitized when it's happening on the other side of the world. Build up enough fear which leads to patriotism all the while having enough domestic poverty where the key to financial stability is to voluntarily join the military. After all the soldiers can't complain about being sent to war zones since they volunteered for it right. Much more effective than the draft.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[rhys 0]

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"steel can not burn." Which is a quote from the video.

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Steel can and will burn. It takes an extreme amount of heat, but it can and will burn. If you've ever done any sort of metal work you would know that.

The "boom" of an "explosion" predated the collapse. Of course it did, it was the sound of the floors collapsing prior to the central structures collapsed allowing for the building to collapse.

Dood,
you are one of these, Im never budging from my stand on the matter but will use clouded examples to try to put my point across.

The video did not say steel can not burn it said steel does not burn, it was determined that the Jet A1 was not enough to melt the 4 INCH THICK steel. they were asking what could have been burning to create such heat and furthered the enquiry with the fact that Black smoke is not of an inferno but a struggling fire!

the explosions were not the collapsing floors they hapenned up to an hour before the collapse and were complemented with immediate fireballs.

I am refraining to comment too much on the movie itself as i have only watched a portion of it as it is taking a long time to download. It just seems that you read the title of the thread and replied your clouded beliefs without thinking too much about it.

If you are going to comment on the movie or its message Please watch it! don't just say you have.


you said no one is alive that was near the flames....bullshit bro.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[AggieDave 6]

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don't just say you have.

You know, calling me a lier won't really get me motivated to say more then I have. I said I watched it, right? I watched the video.

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you are one of these, Im never budging from my stand on the matter but will use clouded examples to try to put my point across.

That's ironic, since that's what the video was trying to do.

Once again. Believe what you want. I believe what I want. From your side I look like someone with blinders. From my side you look like someone who doesn't listen to reason and truth. So we'll get no where except that you'll feel high and mighty when I walk away from responding to go to sleep and don't respond again.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Richards 0]

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***you said this once. you were talking about Michael Moore.

Yup. I still stand by that statement about Michael Moore.

Michael Moore is a 400 pound Tom Green. While people know they are not supposed to take Tom seriously, they sadly cannot figure that out about Michael Moore. By the way I live in Toronto and I do lock my doors as do most people I know who were as baffled as I was by that claim in his movie.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

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[skinnyflyer 0]

it would only require a few dozen people to be "in on it" and thousands more help unknowingly to cover it up.

the real conspiracy theory is that a bunch of arabs planned and acted this out from caves in afganistan with box cutters and mace.

the bbc has reported at least 6 of the 19 hijackers have come forward as being alive and well???

it is physically impossibe for steel highrises' to suddenly explode on their own.nothing survived except for one of the hijackers passports which was recovered at ground zero still in excellent condition.

what are the chances of hijacking four planes without the pilots alerting anyone??

what are the chances of hitting those world trade centers exactly in the middle while banking at 500 miles per hour. these were incompetent pilots who were refused a cessna rental because they couln't fly or land it safely.they had never flown in a real commmercial jet.

the official story is beyond ludicrous.

take a second look.

"Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives."
A. Sachs

[Richards 0]

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The US government can't even hold a session of congress without leaks spreading through the media. Its top secret aircraft are seen and known about before they're shown to the public. Even our "black ops" involving spec op wars against small groups in "friendly" countries are publically known. How the hell is the government going to keep something as big as a 9/11 conspiracy under wraps for 5 years and out of the hands of big media? It can't.

I have tried using this argument for years to no avail. Despite the fact that a president cannot get a blowjob without the world finding out about it, people still want to beleive that the US Government, in collaboration with space aliens being lead by a still living Elvis Presley who coordinated the Kennedy assassination, are running these collosal conspiratorial events right under our noses, which we would never know about were it not for the clever genious of independant filmmakers, analysts and a few hollywood figures whos careers are suffering. They still have not explained why this evil conspiratorial government has not made any of these investigative documentary makers disappear.

Then when I refuse to buy into thier silly theories I get accused of thinking that everything our government does is good and pure without any corruption whatsoever.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[rhys 0]

O.K. dave I am not getting into an argument about personal standpoints we are both very clear on where we stand.

However when you try cloud the issue with comments that are well explained in the movie leads me to believe that you did not watch the movie or your short term memory is faulty.

steel melts at at temperature that could not be reached in the short time the Jet A1 was burning.
this was very well explained. if you want to defend your standpoint please do it with actual facts please.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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I have tried using this argument for years to no avail. Despite the fact that a president cannot get a blowjob without the world finding out about it, people still want to beleive that the US Government, in collaboration with space aliens being lead by a still living Elvis Presley who coordinated the Kennedy assassination, are running these collosal conspiratorial events right under our noses, which we would never know about were it not for the clever genious of independant filmmakers, analysts and a few hollywood figures whos careers are suffering. They still have not explained why this evil conspiratorial government has not made any of these investigative documentary makers disappear
***

Oh so i guess the thrd world trade centre collapse was just a stroke of luck for the Said terrorists?

there were wepons of mass destruction and oil had nothing to do with the whole thing?

If you are going to argue a point make it relavant to the subject at hand please. some of us actually like to learn without the stupid kid in the back of the class disrupting everyone else because they don't understand what is being talked about.

if you want to talk shit go to the Bonfire!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

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[CanuckInUSA 0]

You guys are killing me with your conspiracy theories. There is an easier explaination. Domestic fear and patriotism helps feed the Military Industrial Complex which keeps America employed which helps feed the fear and patriotism which helps feed the Military Industrial Complex which keeps America employed which helps feed the fear and patriotism which helps feed the Military Industrial Complex which keeps America employed which helps feed the fear and patriotism which helps feed the Military Industrial Complex which keeps America employed which helps feed the fear and patriotism which helps feed the Military Industrial Complex which keeps America employed which helps feed the fear and patriotism which helps feed the Military Industrial Complex which keeps America employed which helps feed the fear and patriotism which helps feed the Military Industrial Complex which keeps America employed which helps feed the patriotism ...

Do I sound like a broken record yet. How many decades of this pattern must we continue to endure?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[livetofall 0]

I remember being in fear when that happened as I was working on a refinery on west coast. In Anacortes, all it would take is a dory and a RPG to blow up a refinery hitting the right tank. When nothing ever happened I had my doubts. The sad part is that most that go towards conspiracy put a party toward it. Both partys have rich scum that could give a shit about you. I knew their was going to be in downfall after Clinton didnt veto China Free Trade july 2000. After all, rebs has the house but clinton was just as much of a scumbag, selling out the working man that believed in him. I remember when my stocks dropped drastically pre911. I felt that if there was going to be a time for the eople to stand up it would have been then. While America was heaing right towards another great depression BOOM! towers go, then PATRIOTISM! Americans unite..no time for revolt now . I even betted the Patriots would win though i never follow football. Sure enough. The elite hold the 2 party system to fool us all and to bicker over bullshit to keep us in out pen. What I worry now it that the hatred toward Bush will bring in a super lib to start the UN plan and take away our guns..which is our last defense from the elite corrupt. I tried to discard my thoughts about this..but this is coverage which reminds me of my beliefs years ago that others though I was crazy. I will say no more with IP adresses traceable.

In summary: When A country has fallen, the elite will always find a scapegoat to bring the people together. Think Hitler Jews Saddam Quwait
You cant trust anyone in a suit and a smile.

This was a very good video, and actually more science factual and not another point the finger at Bush for war deal. Long but well done.

[Richards 0]

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Oh so i guess......

The instant someone starts a counter-argument with these words I just know I am in for an infantile rant, that has more to do with yelling and straw man arguments than any real substance.

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there were wepons of mass destruction and oil had nothing to do with the whole thing?

Thank you for proving the point I was making when I said ...."Then when I refuse to buy into their silly theories I get accused of thinking that everything our government does is good and pure without any corruption whatsoever. ". Obviously my failure to subscribe to your extreme position clearly means I subscribe blindly to the complete opposite extreme.

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If you are going to argue a point make it relavant to the subject at hand please.

I did. Obviously it went right over your head.

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some of us actually like to learn without the stupid kid in the back of the class ....

People like you make SC oh so entertaining. You do not like the point a person makes so you go screeching back at the person in a fit of rage. If you really wish to learn then the first step is to be a big boy and stop screaming when someone has a point of view you do not like. It is amazing what you can learn when you take your ego out of these debates.

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if you want to talk shit go to the Bonfire!

[skinnyflyer 0]

to cannuck and others saying this is silly conspiracy

you don't bring any logic with your argument so why are posting here?

until you can explain how 110 floors can collapse through themselves spontaniously at the same speed as on object freefalling and how building 7 collapsed etc. then you can't ridicule this as a conspiracy theory.

"Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives."
A. Sachs

[mnealtx 0]

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Do I sound like a broken record yet. How many decades of this pattern must we continue to endure?

Yah, speaking of theories... yeah, it's the military-industrial complex, making billions off the lives of our troops!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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to cannuck and others saying this is silly conspiracy

you don't bring any logic with your argument so why are posting here?

until you can explain how 110 floors can collapse through themselves spontaniously at the same speed as on object freefalling and how building 7 collapsed etc. then you can't ridicule this as a conspiracy theory.

Go the link I mentioned in my first reply to you. Or, do a search and see where this bullshit has been debunked again and again and again....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rhys 0]

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Oh so i guess......

------------------------------------------------------------

The instant someone starts a counter-argument with these words I just know I am in for an infantile rant, that has more to do with yelling and straw man arguments than any real substance.

How is 2 questionsin 4 short paragraphs a Rant? and yelling?
this particular forum is a place for infomation,dicussion and debate.


oh so i guess.. is 4 words that could start the sentance to a vast number of subjects with a varied degree of credibility. by the initial statement in your last reply you honestly come across as closed minded.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Erroll 80]

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to cannuck and others saying this is silly conspiracy.....

I also think this a silly conspiracy theory, however I have no ambition to argue the point. I am interested to know (in your opinion) why the 'conspirators' would take down the towers, hit the Pentagon and (I believe) attempt to hit DC. What do you think 'they' hoped to accomplish?

[warpedskydiver 0]

Al Franken did it.