proof that 9/11 was planned by us gov.

[sundevil777 102]

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It is amazing that neither tower collapsed from the initial hits. Not much more of the structure needed to be weakened for it all to fail.

actually quite the opposite . according to the nist report only 10-15% of the columns were damaged. and since the colums were capable of sustaining 2000 times their load without failure it is quite shocking that the towers exploded..sorry collapsed.

Now you're portraying the initial damage to the towers as inconsequential!

From where did you get your assertion that the columns had a safety factor of 2000? This is a good example of armchair engineering run amok.

Do you accept all the claims of the conspiracy theorists?

Are there any assertions that you don't believe?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[skinnyflyer 0]

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Now you're portraying the initial damage to the towers as inconsequential!

yes. this is what nist concluded,aside from the fireproofing allegedly being dislodged.

"Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives."
A. Sachs

[ExAFO 0]

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Now you're portraying the initial damage to the towers as inconsequential!

yes. this is what nist concluded,aside from the fireproofing allegedly being dislodged.

What are you trying to accomplish here? What would you do if your tinfoil hat brigade theory was proven to be true?

Next, tell me about the Illuminati and the Pentaverate. (+2 to whomever gets that one...)

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[billvon 2,990]

>"However, the towers withstood the impacts and would have remained
> standing were it not for the dislodged insulation (fireproofing) and the
> subsequent multifloor fires.”

That is correct.

You're changing your story now. You originally claimed that it was impossible for insulation AWAY FROM THE IMPACT AREA to be dislodged. But that's not what the NIST report contends - it contends that the impact of the aircraft destroyed a lot of the fireproofing in the impact area. The subsequent fire reduced the strength of the unprotected steel until it could no longer support the weight of the floors above it.

Are you now changing your story to contend that a 767 hitting a building at 500mph cannot damage some of the insulation on the steel in the impact area? I've done it with a screwdriver. I suggest you perform the experiment yourself to give yourself a better feel for how well it really adheres.

>feel free to try and explain how the fires in wtc 7 caused the simutaneous
>failure of multiple columns and caused total symmetrical collapse.

Because there is no law of thermodynamics that says a fire will affect only one column at a time. It will affect every structure in the area of the fire. When enough of the steel become weakened, AND there is other damage (say, a few tons of concrete and steel falling through the structure) then it collapses.

[champu 1]

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y spend millions on exposive experts when all you need is some av gas and a few old computer desks. seems like, looks like, a perfect science.

Don't forget to put the fuel in a 200 ton plane and slam it into the structure in question at 500 mph. It may drive your costs back up, but If I remember correctly, and I admit in my old age my memory has gotten somewhat hazy, that was rather key...

As a side note, I'm not sure raining debris over numerous city blocks can be accurately describied as, "a perfect science." Maybe my standards are a little higher than yours regarding what I'd consider a "controlled" demolition.

[Amazon 7]

Wow.. what a thread...Personally I think the government inaction on a known attack is more likely.. since ultimately they need a mass incident to maintain power after 19 Jan 2009.

I thiok its a 100% probability in the next 2 years and we will all need to be protected from our worst fears

[Lucky... 0]

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y spend millions on exposive experts when all you need is some av gas and a few old computer desks. seems like, looks like, a perfect science.

Don't forget to put the fuel in a 200 ton plane and slam it into the structure in question at 500 mph. It may drive your costs back up, but If I remember correctly, and I admit in my old age my memory has gotten somewhat hazy, that was rather key...

As a side note, I'm not sure raining debris over numerous city blocks can be accurately describied as, "a perfect science." Maybe my standards are a little higher than yours regarding what I'd consider a "controlled" demolition.

They weren't flying @ or anywhere near 500mph.

[Lucky... 0]

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Wow.. what a thread...Personally I think the government inaction on a known attack is more likely.. since ultimately they need a mass incident to maintain power after 19 Jan 2009.

I thiok its a 100% probability in the next 2 years and we will all need to be protected from our worst fears

OF course we were proactively engaged in Iran-Contra, but until I see evidecen that we were proactively engaged here I think it is a case of negligence, gross negligence, willful negligence.

[Lucky... 0]

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One of the skeptic magazines (Skeptical Inquirer?) ran a piece on the 911 conspiracy. They found no evidence of melted steel and had bldg demolition experts give their opinions on whether the videos showed any evidence of intentional demolition, all said no. The so called melted steel seen by some responders and clean up crews was most likely melted aluminum blackened by ash and carbon. Not one piece of melted steel confirmed to be from the 911 attack on the WTC has been produced for analysis. The best logical point made, is why on earth would you need to coordinate planes hitting a bldg and intentionally placed explosives in the bldg? Just blow up the bldg and blame it on terrorists. No need to complicate it with planes. Many of the 911 conspiracy devotees ignore contrary evidence. They say there is no evidence of aircraft wreckage near the Pentagon crash. There is an ABUNDANCE of such evidence including many photos and eyewitness accounts. If the govt wanted to manufacture a reason to invade IRAQ they did a poor job as none of the 911 terrorists had IRAQ connections, rather they were mostly tied to Saudi Arabia, our so called friend.

Not that I back the theorists 100%, but using acft brings in the loss of privacy thru airports and in general, so that is the advantage to using acft. If they blew it up 1993 style, how would they justify the Nazi tactics at airports?

[Lucky... 0]

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1. the people that i saw that designed the building designed it for a impact for a jet liner. and the outside of the the structure was designed to break up a plane. so did it work.?

2. i work in commisioning building fire systems and the amount of water that would have been flooding that fire is well a shit load. i was in a building just the other day when the plumber turned the water on and some of the pipes had not been joined correctly trust me the place was fucted. 1000s of liters of water. i agree that a fire could have been burning as i have seen the amount of shit office workers take to work to flash up there desks, but for two builds to fall perfect like that y spend millions on exposive experts when all you need is some av gas and a few old computer desks. seems like, looks like, a perfect science.


+ they have designed av gas to burn fast in case of landing crashes.

Now what about the other building that fell. y how



600 billon has been spent on weapons that are made in america and in troops wages so in the end america wins

Good point, what about the water extinguisher systems? Water would hamper the fire. Furthermore, if the jet fuel was burning, wouldn't it travel down thru the floors? I didn't see teh lower floors burning.

Av gas usually refers to aviation recip fuels, jet fuel is kerosene-based jet fuel, JP-X, so it really isn't avgas. Kerosene burns slower, is harder to ignite, but once ignited is more tenacious; it's like kerosene. It's oily and stinky, unlike auto/avgas that is sweeter smelling.

I agree that the $$$ appropriations and the revocation of rights is a great motivator for teh gov to have had a hand in this, even if it was just to look the other way.

[Lucky... 0]

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Jets don't use av gas, that is used in piston planes, jets use a fuel much like kerosene, and pools of it will burn for a very long time (from personal experience testing helicopter fuel tanks).

Beat me to it! I wrote this w/o realizing you write it. JP-X fuel is funny, I've seen demonstrations where they take an entire book of matches to light it, yet when it finally lights they can't put it out. It's stinky, sticky, and tenacious. I don't know the heat range as compared to avgas, my guess would be not as hot since it is slower burning.

Again, not saying the gov had no hand in 911.

[Lucky... 0]

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> the idea that fireproofing was knocked off in areas that were not directly
>impacted is ridiculous.

No one is suggesting that. You're creating straw men again.

> the only damage is on one corner of the building.

The SW corner was damaged, and the south face had been ripped open by the tons of debris falling from the towers. There were fires on floors 6-30; the fires on 11 and 12 went on for hours.

So we have a building that sustained serious impacts from heavy debris, had fires burning for hours on two floors, and an eventual failure of the structural elements resulting in a collapse. Remind you of anything?

Hey, in the movie, "Inferno," the fire didn't take he building down, so I'm calling BS on your theory.

[Remster 30]

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I've done it with a screwdriver.

So are you changing your story now Bill? I didnt see any screwdrivers impacting with the WTC...

Remster

[rehmwa 2]

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I've done it with a screwdriver.

So are you changing your story now Bill? I didnt see any screwdrivers impacting with the WTC...

There was a lot of smoke and dust, just because you didn't see it on film, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Screwdrivers aren't made out of aluminum, I'm sure if they searched the wreckage, they'll find one or two for proof.

At least now we know why the government pays $500 for a screwdriver

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[champu 1]

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They weren't flying @ or anywhere near 500mph.

"There are some important differences between the impact of the aircraft into WTC 2 and the impact into WTC 1. First, United Airlines Flight 175 was flying much faster, with an estimated speed of 590 mph, while American Airlines Flight 11 was flying at approximately 470 mph. The additional speed..."

World Trade Center Performance Study

The speed can be estimated quite well from all the video of the impacts. My last post may have been condescending, but it wasn't inaccurate.

[billvon 2,990]

>But the fact that no other building that was hit by a 767 crumbled to
>the ground is proof that something was planned by the government...

Well, close. The real proof lies a bit farther afield.

Now, readers of this thread, the US government would certainly want you to believe that Al Qaeda crashed those jets into the WTC years ago and brought about their collapse. And they make a good case. Hell, I almost believed it myself! But there is one final thing to consider. Check out the attached picture. Dear readers, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookie from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it - that does not make sense!

Why would a Wookie, an eight-foot tall Wookie, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself - What does this have to do with 9/11? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with 9/11! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a moderator discussing the events of 9/11, and I'm talking about Chewbacca! Does that make any sense? People, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're thinking about what happened that day - does it make sense? No! It does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must believe that the US government blew up the WTC! Case closed.

Next topic, please.

[happythoughts 0]

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What does this have to do with 9/11? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with 9/11! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a moderator discussing the events of 9/11, and I'm talking about Chewbacca! Does that make any sense? People, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense!

Ignore any video. If it does not fit, you must acquit.

[skinnyflyer 0]

ok get your tinfoil hats on.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=8677389869548020370&q=war+for+oil

"Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives."
A. Sachs

[rehmwa 2]

Careful, Kallend will recommend you to a post teaching logic at the local community college.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,489]

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Why would a Wookie, an eight-foot tall Wookie, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks?

I heard that Endor was supposed to be the wookie planet but they couldn't find enough 7 foot tall extras.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Remster 30]

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Why would a Wookie, an eight-foot tall Wookie, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks?

Midget fetish?

Remster

[dorbie 0]

http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/sounds/214/214_chewbacca.wav

[AFFI 0]

So people believe that our gov planned the deaths of thousanda of americans?

That is a stretch...

Geez, whats next, the gov gonna nuke LA?

[kallend 2,026]

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So people believe that our gov planned the deaths of thousanda of americans?

That is a stretch...

Geez, whats next, the gov gonna nuke LA?

While I do not believe this particular conspiracy theory, we should remember that the US govt. deliberately exposed Las Vegas, NV, St. George, UT, and nearby communities to radioactive fallout, deliberately withheld treatment from sick men in Tuskeegee, deliberately exposed service personnel to direct radiation from nuclear weapons tests, and deliberately released biological agents in several cities to test the effectiveness of their dispersion.

The US Govt. does not have a spotless record with respect to harming its own citizens.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AFFI 0]

Yup...