NCclimber 0 #76 December 20, 2006 Quote''Marvin P. Bush, the youngest brother of future President George W. Bush, is a director at Stratesec from 1993 to June 2000,'' ''A security company called Stratesec acquires an $8.3 million contract to help provide security at the World Trade Center'' ''It has a “completion contract” to provide some of the center’s security “up to the day the buildings fell down,” according to Barry McDaniel, its CEO from January 2002. Another of Stratesec’s biggest security contracts, between 1995 and 1998, is with the Metropolitan Washington Airport Authority, providing electronic security for Reagan National Airport and Dulles International Airport.'' not sure what article you read? Sitting on the board of directors, years before 9/11, is not the same as being "in charge of security for the world trade center". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyflyer 0 #77 December 20, 2006 here are government plans to fake terrorist activity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods ''Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a 1962 plan to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government of Fidel Castro..'' ''The plan, which was not implemented, called for various false flag actions, including simulated or real state-sponsored acts of terrorism (such as hijacked planes) on U.S. and Cuban soil.'' ''create an incident which has the appearance of an attack on U.S. facilities (GMO) in Cuba, thus providing an excuse for use of U.S. military might to overthrow the current government of Cuba." get ready to be drafted for bushs expanding army"Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #78 December 20, 2006 Were Posada Carriles and Orlando Bosch in on those plans? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #79 December 20, 2006 Quoteget ready to be drafted for bushs[sic] expanding army I cannot be drafted. Ive done my time. You however, are at risk...Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #80 December 20, 2006 Hey if you want to believe all that crap, have fun, it is your right. Just don't expect any one who has read the same stuff your quoting from (or watched live on TV or maybe even in person) to side with ya here. Hell the pass port thing alone is funny. I open the archives of home video's from the disaster and see plenty of material scattered upon the impacts, paper, concrete, metal, etc. etc. But the funniest thing is watching those posts where you want to argue Engineering with Bilvon? Your dedicated, I'll give you that. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #81 December 20, 2006 Even if there was CONCLUSIVE, BOMB PROOF, 100% DEFINITE UTTER PROOF that the US Government brought down the towers, people would still think, 'Yeah, sure, ya conspiracy fruit!' I'm pissed off - David Shayler, ex British MI5, has been touring the UK gobbing off about 9/11 being the responsibilty of the US Government. Really. I seen him on Sky news a fortnight ago airing his views. Very interesting indeed. However, when he was visiting my town I was out the country. What a pisser. That would have been some good entertainment I believe. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #82 December 20, 2006 >references?? Collapse of upper stories of tall building due to heat: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4263667.stm Collapse of McCormick Place: "The unprotected steel roof trusses failed early on in the fire due to the same factors." http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/disasters/mccormick_fire.html "Temperatures of 1000° F can cause buckling and temperatures of 1500° F can cause steel to lose strength and collapse. When the heat and hot gases reached the stage ceiling they extended horizontally into the auditorium, causing the roof to fail all the way to the lobby fire wall." http://www.interfire.org/res_file/pdf/Tr-097.pdf Fire in the UK: "Intense heat buckled the steel girders holding the roof." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hereford/worcs/6105942.stm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #83 December 20, 2006 1/4th of americans are retarded and won't beleive anything told to them. Have you seen the video explaining how the towers collapse? We watched a video explaining how the planes impact knocked the fire insulation off the steel, how the fire changed the properties of the structural steel, and how the construction of the building perfectly explains the collapse of all stories after the first story collapsed. the video you are referring to is propaganda for conspiracy theorists. of course, those engineers who made the video are all secret cronies of bush right. another 100 people in the conspiracy who have said nothing so far. wow. good thing bush got such trustworthy friends, because usually that stuff leaks pretty fast. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyflyer 0 #84 December 20, 2006 billvon your reference is of a building that burned much hotter and longer that any trade centers and yet DID NOT COLLAPSE. great example."Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #85 December 20, 2006 >and if the ''puffs'' of smoke are just compressed air then they would >be just that and not exploding concrete. They're compressed air and debris being blown out through the windows as the building collapsed above them. >you simply can't have each and every concrete floor smashing >themselves into a fine dust and also have freefalling speeds, it >doesn't make sense. 1) As I have indicated they were NOT freefall speeds. Check out the attached photo; you can barely see the top of the antenna still protruding from the debris, and you can still see the intact base below. Note that the debris that has been blown outwards by the collapsing building is falling faster than it is. Why? Because the structure is disintegrating as it collapses, and that absorbs some (but not much) of that energy. 2) Much of the damage was caused by the concrete floors falling hundreds of feet i.e. they disintegrated when they hit the ground at close to 100 feet per second. >even a half second delay from each floor would result in 40+second collapse. Right. No structure known to man could resist 60 floors of the WTC hitting it at 100 feet per second. They gave way almost instantly. >do you really believe that one of the hijackers passports fell out of >his pocket . . . No, I think he (being in the front of the plane) was ejected and smashed to little bloody bits, and small bits and pieces of him survived intact. I'll bet if you looked really hard you could find a piece of his jacket as well, or perhaps one of his teeth. Heck, if wine bottles can survive a plane crash, so can passports. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyflyer 0 #86 December 20, 2006 ''Have you seen the video explaining how the towers collapse? We watched a video explaining how the planes impact knocked the fire insulation off the steel, how the fire changed the properties of the structural steel, and how the construction of the building perfectly explains the collapse of all stories after the first story collapsed.'' the video you watched is the propaganda. the thing about your video is that it surely doesn't mention building 7 and has a ridiculous explanation for the two towers. watch both videos and think for yourself and see witch scenario makes more sense."Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #87 December 20, 2006 >your reference is of a building that burned much hotter and longer >that any trade centers and yet DID NOT COLLAPSE. There were three references there, and they all collapsed. The tall building did not collapse all the way; it had not been weakened by a massive jet hitting it at 500 mph. Is it your position that a fully fueled 757 hitting a building at 500mph will not cause damage? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #88 December 20, 2006 >watch both videos and think for yourself . . . Sounds a lot like truthiness. >witch scenario makes more sense. That was funny! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyflyer 0 #89 December 20, 2006 billvon if the puffs of debris are the collapsing floors then how exactly do they appear dozens of floors below the demolition wave and if the collapsing floors are dozens of floors below the demolition wave then what exactly is the demolition wave, is it exploting steel. if the puffs are the floors collapsing that suggest they accelerated faster then the freefalling debris outside."Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyflyer 0 #90 December 20, 2006 ''There were three references there, and they all collapsed'' billvon the other examples were not steel framed skyscrapers, they were 4-5 story factories. you did not present any examples of steel skyscrapers collapsing and yet you claimed that they used to collapse often."Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #91 December 20, 2006 >billvon if the puffs of debris are the collapsing floors . . . They're not. They are air and debris being blown out through lower story windows. >then how exactly do they appear dozens of floors below the >demolition wave The floors are relatively permeable to air; there are dozens of elevator shafts, stairwells, air shafts and conduit runs that go up and down the building. As the building collapsed, the air pressure went up throughout the rest of the building. This exited via open doors where it could. Unfortunately, they were all on the first floor. So when the pressure really started rising, it blew out windows and exited that way. Let's take a moment in time when the tower had just begun to collapse - it's collapsed 10% of its volume. That means pressure has risen 10%. (Let's say 5% to account for leakage through doors already broken windows etc.) That's an overpressure of .73PSI. On a 4' by 6' window, that's 2500 pounds pushing outwards. Think the windows will withstand that? How about windows that have already been cracked by falling debris? >and if the collapsing floors are dozens of floors below the demolition >wave then what exactly is the demolition wave, is it exploting steel. It's a collapsing building. >if the puffs are the floors collapsing that suggest they accelerated >faster then the freefalling debris outside. They're not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyflyer 0 #92 December 20, 2006 billvon what you're saying makes no sense anyone who has seen these numerous puffs of smoke can see that they look like greyish powder being ejected through windows. please explain how office furniture and compressed aie=greyish powder."Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #93 December 20, 2006 Quotebillvon what you're saying makes no sense Ha ha - coming from you thats pretty funny Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyflyer 0 #94 December 20, 2006 good one stumpy if you think this is a silly conspiracy then why are you reading this thread."Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #95 December 20, 2006 I needed a good laugh and the usual creationism threads weren't doing it for me today.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #96 December 20, 2006 Quotegood one stumpy if you think this is a silly conspiracy then why are you reading this thread. Y'know how people always slow down to stare at a car crash......Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #97 December 20, 2006 If our own government planned and carried out this attack then why did Osama Bin Laden accept responsibility when denying responsibility and uncovering the conspiracy would have damaged our government far more?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #98 December 20, 2006 >what you're saying makes no sense Sorry, am I speaking in engineer again? Let me know if you want anything explained in more detail. >anyone who has seen these numerous puffs of smoke can see that >they look like greyish powder being ejected through windows. That's cause they _are_ greyish powder being ejected through windows. That much air picks up everything and anything in its path (paper, furniture, potted plants, dust, debris) and carries it along. From a distance it's just a big grayish cloud. >please explain how office furniture and compressed aie=greyish >powder. From far away, white, black and gray debris looks like gray dust. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niu 0 #99 December 20, 2006 QuoteIf our own government planned and carried out this attack then why did Osama Bin Laden accept responsibility when denying responsibility and uncovering the conspiracy would have damaged our government far more? Hush,OBL does not really exist,that`s why he`s never been captured. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrismgtis 0 #100 December 20, 2006 Quoteplease explain how office furniture and compressed aie=greyish powder. No offence man, but I want some of what you've been smoking so I can see things in such odd ways.Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
