Honest questions for God

[Mockingbird 0]

Quote

Now from what I've read, god does not seem plausible but that is as far as I can go. I can do no experiments, "god theory" is not existant, I can't review any data, I'm stuck with scripture.

is data, but you won't understand that unless you lay aside your bias and look into it... I'm speaking of the authorship, a comparison of the manuscripts, its internal cohesiveness, etc. etc. and so forth and so on, etc........

I don't mean to be disrespectful. I hope you will give my tone the benefit of the doubt. It's hard to communicate attitude well over the internet.

I'm off to work. Will check back with others' replies tonight.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[DSE 5]

Even Christ apparently warned people against having blind faith.
I understand that your fear of research is related to your concern of having your beliefs damaged, but is faith worth having if your faith is based on misinformation?

[steveorino 7]

Quote

[edited];Billvon answered it mo betta'.

Quote

Sorry, but attitudes like his aren't at all like the Christ I read of in the Bible.

Maybe not what you read, but for whatever reasons, Aryans, fundamentalists, and those with an agenda that needs biblical support do read it that way. Additionally, you've not ever read one literal word of Jesus. Ever. What you have read are books written by others after his death, all of which are recounts of oral histories. Second hand information is always open to interpretation; they're not quotes. Take an example of how Steveorino took my own words and bastardized them for his own use.

[steveorino 7]

Quote

Even Christ apparently warned people against having blind faith.

Actually, I thought he commended people for having "child-like" faith. To what text are you referring?

steveOrino

[pajarito 0]

Wow Folks!!!

I wish everyone here would watch this entire video of a sermon by Paul Washer (Missionary) at a youth conference with 5000 kids. There is a 4 min sample but it would be well worth your time to watch the 58 min one. I'm sure most here won't but I'd challenge you to. Especially those claiming to be Christians. I warn you in advance. This is heavy lifting. Whew!!!

- Are you a genuine Christian?
- Are you born again?
- How do you know you're not going to hell?
- Did you just pray and confess Jesus as Lord and think you were saved? Satan confesses Jesus as Lord. - Does your life give representation of change?
- Are you bearing good fruit because of Christ who is in you?
- How do you know if someone is a false prophet?
- Direct application to all the televangelists and leaders in Christian organizations who have been caught in scandals showing themselves to be hypocrites living in patterns of sin.

Is this fundamentalism or is it what EVERY Christian should profess and do if they are sincere in their faith and are not themselves hypocrites???

This guy is a Soldier for Christ! He is a spiritual athlete! Wow!

If you're interested, go to the Way of the Master Radio site and scroll down a little less than half way down the page. The videos are on the left.

Jay

[AFFI 0]

Quote

Is this fundamentalism or is it what EVERY Christian should profess and do if they are sincere in their faith and are not themselves hypocrites???

According to whom?

First thing I saw on this site were things for sale. What a turn off...

[Mockingbird 0]

Quote

There is considerable reason for belief in the scientific method as a way of investigating the workings of the universe.

I agree. The scientific method, when it can be used and used properly, is a valuable tool (tho' not perfect). No quarrel with you there.

Quote

Based on empirical evidence, there is no justification whatsoever for a belief in the supernatural.

Whether there has been or will be enough empirical evidence for the supernatural to suit everybody, I don't know. (For many at the time, an empty tomb was sufficient). But what I asked was whether you would agree that you could be mistaken in your presupposition about the non-existence of God and/or the supernatural.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[pajarito 0]

Quote

Quote

Is this fundamentalism or is it what EVERY Christian should profess and do if they are sincere in their faith and are not themselves hypocrites???

According to whom?

First thing I saw on this site were things for sale. What a turn off...

Refer to the "Do you believe in sin" thread for my response.

[AFFI 0]

Quote

Refer to the "Do you believe in sin" thread for my response.

Did not need a response, nor do I need some yahoo telling me if I am a good person or not and I suspect that most others do not either.

[Mockingbird 0]

Quote

Even Christ apparently warned people against having blind faith.
I understand that your fear of research is related to your concern of having your beliefs damaged, but is faith worth having if your faith is based on misinformation?

I don't know what you're referring to in this reply. (You referenced no post of mine.)

My "fear of research"?? Again, I don't know what you might be referring to.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

Quote

Quote

Refer to the "Do you believe in sin" thread for my response.

Did not need a response, nor do I need some yahoo telling me if I am a good person or not and I suspect that most others do not either.

Are you calling God a yahoo? It's His 10 Commandments that are used to see if you measure up.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

Well Paj, I listened to the four-minute version. Tho' I heartily agree with what I heard him say, I can't say I'm real comfortable with it, if you know what I mean.



I'm fixin' to listen to the whole thing now. Thanks for the link. Could be the subject of a separate thread... Are you REALLY a Christian? or, You say you're a Christian, but are you following Christ?

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[unformed 0]

Quote

But what I asked was whether you would agree that you could be mistaken in your presupposition about the non-existence of God and/or the supernatural.

I know this question was not directed towards me, but.... could you define "God and/or the supernatural"?

This ad space for sale.

[Mockingbird 0]

Thanks again, Paj. Good video.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[JackC 0]

Quote

And after taking another look at "the literature", "the mathematics", and "the astronomical data", how sure would you be?

As sure as I could be. Part of the scientific method is that you are prepared to change you mind about what you think you know when new information becomes available. That's how progress is made. Would you be prepared to change your mind about your faith if you were presented with information from the real world that contradicts scripture?

Quote

is data, but you won't understand that unless you lay aside your bias and look into it... I'm speaking of the authorship, a comparison of the manuscripts, its internal cohesiveness, etc. etc. and so forth and so on, etc........

Scripture is not data, it's heresay. There is no way that an editted translation of second hand information, written decades after the event would ever be allowed as evidence in a court of law. It just wouldn't wash. You seem to have an odd idea of what constitutes data. Is Homer's Odyssey evidence for the existence of Zeus?

In order to believe that scripture is evidence of god, you first have to believe that god exists and that is begging the question. All you can deduce from scripture is that the people that compiled it all believed a similar story about god. I don't take Homer's word on Zeus nor I do I take John's word on Yahweh. I just can't.

[AFFI 0]

Quote

Is Homer's Odyssey evidence for the existence of Zeus?

Quite possibly, the most intelligent question asked in this string of debate...

[AFFI 0]

Quote

Are you calling God a yahoo?

The almighty personally made this recording?

Wow...

[steveorino 7]

I heard the stories and sermons about JC when I was a kid. I never thought to question any of it's validity. I also "experienced" Christ in a spiritual way. While as I studied scripture I saw it in a different light while working on a Masters. My views on it has changed. (I think too many Christians worship the Bible. The WORD that we are to worship is JC - see John 1)

However, my spiritual experiences have not diminished. In fact they have deepened my walk with Christ. I realize it is subjective to many, but I find it as real as anything I have ever experienced.

steveOrino

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

Is Homer's Odyssey evidence for the existence of Zeus?

Is Homer's Odyssey considered non-fiction?

[AFFI 0]

Quote

Quote

Is Homer's Odyssey evidence for the existence of Zeus?

Is Homer's Odyssey considered non-fiction?

There is debate about that.

[pajarito 0]

Quote

Tho' I heartily agree with what I heard him say, I can't say I'm real comfortable with it, if you know what I mean.

It is disconcerting. Although, it's good to examine oneself to see if you're in the faith and to make your calling and election sure (be absolutely sure you've got your "parachute" on before you have to jump out of the plane; do a gear check). I did earlier this month. I think there are a lot of "Christians" who have a false sense of security if they are continuing in a pattern of sin. They may not have simply "backslid" if they never truly "slid forward" in the first place. You will be known by your fruits. Make your calling and election sure Mockingbird!

• Quote

[jakee 1,559]

Quote

Quote

Is Homer's Odyssey evidence for the existence of Zeus?

Is Homer's Odyssey considered non-fiction?

It was written for precisely the same reason as the Old Testament.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JackC 0]

Quote

Quote

Is Homer's Odyssey evidence for the existence of Zeus?

Is Homer's Odyssey considered non-fiction?

Is the bible considered non-fiction?
Do you consider the Koran to be evidence of Allah?
What about the Vedas, are they evidence of Ganesha?

It depends who you ask as to what answer you get.

Now take a working light bulb. Is that evidence that electricity flows when you throw the switch?
Can you use a compass to show that the earth has a magnetic field?

It doesn't matter who you ask, the answer is always the same.

If what you consider to be evidence depends on whether you believe it or not, then it is almost certainly nothing of the sort. True evidence is not dependent on the observers beliefs.

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Is Homer's Odyssey evidence for the existence of Zeus?

Is Homer's Odyssey considered non-fiction?

It was written for precisely the same reason as the Old Testament.

What was that reason?

[steveorino 7]

Quote

Is the bible considered non-fiction?
Do you consider the Koran to be evidence of Allah?
What about the Vedas, are they evidence of Ganesha?

It depends who you ask as to what answer you get.

Now take a working light bulb. Is that evidence that electricity flows when you throw the switch?
Can you use a compass to show that the earth has a magnetic field?

It doesn't matter who you ask, the answer is always the same.

You proved religion is not science, and thus it should not be subjugated to the same principles. What is your point?

steveOrino