Should .50 Cal weapons be banned?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

you are a decent dancer, but discussing or debating seems utterly hopeless with you.

I'll leave you to continue to play the energizer bunny...

[kbordson 8]

This debate aside... I just want one... THIS one

Defense Review

or for those with cable... there was just a clip on discovery channel (future weapons)

Wouldn't use it for evil - I promise... but I am amazed by the power, accuracy, and rate of fire. AND the recoil system looks so cool!

[warpedskydiver 0]

that and the M96 windrunner have got to be the best two 50's out there, other than a plain old Robar.

A bolt action is good when you don't want the brass to be seen as it ejects, other than that there is too much felt recoil.

[warpedskydiver 0]

extreme50cal.com/lemag.pdf


check out the reviews.

I would like to try out that AI

Thats about the only thing I want that I don't have a nice 50cal and I think mine will be an EDM M96

[jumpr71 0]

Myth: The bullet from this gun can penetrate concrete
bunkers

Fact: "It takes 300 rounds to penetrate 2 meters of reinforced concrete at 100 meters.”70 At $5
per round, it would cost a terrorist $1,500 in ammunition to shoot into one bunker.

A titanium,or stainless steel .308 projectile saboted and shot from a .50 BMG rifle or M2 can go right through a concrete jersey barrier and kill the haji dead that is hiding behind it with his AK thinking he is all safe.

---you should seriously consider removing yourself from the gene pool---

[Douva 0]

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Myth: The bullet from this gun can penetrate concrete
bunkers

Fact: "It takes 300 rounds to penetrate 2 meters of reinforced concrete at 100 meters.”70 At $5
per round, it would cost a terrorist $1,500 in ammunition to shoot into one bunker.

A titanium,or stainless steel .308 projectile saboted and shot from a .50 BMG rifle or M2 can go right through a concrete jersey barrier and kill the haji dead that is hiding behind it with his AK thinking he is all safe.

Okay, now I HAVE to have one.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[mnealtx 0]

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Myth: The bullet from this gun can penetrate concrete
bunkers

Fact: "It takes 300 rounds to penetrate 2 meters of reinforced concrete at 100 meters.”70 At $5
per round, it would cost a terrorist $1,500 in ammunition to shoot into one bunker.

A titanium,or stainless steel .308 projectile saboted and shot from a .50 BMG rifle or M2 can go right through a concrete jersey barrier and kill the haji dead that is hiding behind it with his AK thinking he is all safe.

What's the spec on that round...website or something similar?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Tonto 1]

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Do not put words in my mouth.

When you threaten to annihilate a country, and claim to have the capability to do it, or are working on obtaining that capability, that *IS* doing a bad thing. In criminal law at a personal level it would be called assault, and it is a crime.

Do you really think the US has committed a crime by performing the above actions against the nation of Iraq, or are you just saying that to please the left?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[steve1 5]

This is one, really cool weapon. I can really see it's purpose for military use. I don't think I'd ever want to own one for civilian purposes though...mainly because they are expensive and they are quite long and heavy. In other words they aren't very portable.

Then add up the weight and expense of the ammo....I really don't think I'd ever do much hunting with one. I also wonder how fair it would be to blow some critter away from a mile distant, and then consider the meat damage. A deer sized animal would probably be in pieces. And then consider the noise level of shooting one. (I would imagine they are quite noisy.)

The last 50 I shot was mounted on a jeep with thumb triggers, (years ago in the military). They were quite fun to shoot tracers down range with. Talk about flat shooting! They might be fun to shoot targets with, but for the price tag that goes with it, I'd rather spend the money on jumps.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I would support your right to own one though....Steve1

[DaVinci 0]

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mainly because they are expensive and they are quite long and heavy. In other words they aren't very portable.

Try jumping one in

[Douva 0]

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I also wonder how fair it would be to blow some critter away from a mile distant, and then consider the meat damage. A deer sized animal would probably be in pieces.

Considering how few people could hit a deer from a mile away, even with a .50 BMG sniper rifle, I don't think it's too unfair to the deer.

A friend of mine shot a deer with a single shot .50. He said it folded the deer in half. He also said the meet was like Jello, completely bloodshot from the trauma. It's not a practical hunting weapon, unless, perhaps, you're hunting really big game.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[rehmwa 2]

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A friend of mine shot a deer with a single shot .50. He said it folded the deer in half. He also said the meet was like Jello, completely bloodshot from the trauma. It's not a practical hunting weapon, unless, perhaps, you're hunting really big game.

Or really enjoy stew

or sausage

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[steve1 5]

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mainly because they are expensive and they are quite long and heavy. In other words they aren't very portable.

Try jumping one in

.................................
I'll bet that would be a challenge. I've heard of people jumping in with long skiis tied to their side, so maybe it could be done, as long as the static line didn't wrap around something. We used to jump M-16's and M-14's (without a weapons container) with the muzzle up. We'd just let the sling way out and tie them to your harness with string. This created some problems though.

With the M-14's extra length, the static line wanted to wrap around the muzzle. My worst nightmare was to be a jumper in tow behind a C-130 or 141. Finally someone got smart and came up with weapons containers. I would imagine you'd have to take the stock off a 50 cal. and then put it in a container to jump it. Otherwise it might be too long.

As far as weight I've heard of jumpers jumping in with a mortar base plate. I once jumped an ammo crate loaded with gravel in a PAE bag. That was a ton of fun. You could barely waddle down the isle and fall out the door. So, I'll bet even a 50 cal. is jumpable....Steve1

[Kennedy 0]

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Okay, now I HAVE to have one.

So many guns...
so little in the pay check.

Man, I love the job security and benefits, but government pay sucks!

A nice little (little, HAH!) .50 is on my wish list, but I have to admit it's not in my top ten.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

Two questions:

(1) Why a sabot round? Why not fire a solid round from a barrel that caliber? If the round would damage or wouldn't take spin from the barrel, see #2.

(2) Why not use a steel core (steel inside lead inside a copper jacket)round from a .308? I know these exist.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[jumpr71 0]

Uh...I have no idea to either question. All I know is I saw the round while in Baghdad in 04. Super high velocity...a friend of mine had a shitload of them.

---you should seriously consider removing yourself from the gene pool---

[steve1 5]

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(2) Why not use a steel core (steel inside lead inside a copper jacket)round from a .308? I know these exist.

I still have some of the old armor piercing rounds at home in 30/06. I wonder if they have a steel core? I always wondered how that bullet was constructed. Maybe I should get a hack saw and find out.

[JohnRich 4]

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(1) Why a sabot round? Why not fire a solid round from a barrel that caliber? If the round would damage or wouldn't take spin from the barrel, see #2.

(2) Why not use a steel core (steel inside lead inside a copper jacket)round from a .308? I know these exist.

1) I don't know the specifics on this, but here's my response with my general understanding of guns and ballistics. Using a .50 caliber rifle to fire a .308 bullet allows you to use much more powder than a normal .308, to accelerate a bullet which is much lighter than a .50, and that offers less inertia to overcome by the pressure. Thus, it accelerates faster in the same barrel length. So they must be pushing these .308 bullets to super-fast velocities. A normal .308 has a muzzle velocity of about 2,700 feet per second. I'll bet a .50 caliber .308 sabot round will push that up to about 4,000 fps. That's my guess on it.

2) There is a .308 armor-piercing round, called the M61, with a steel core, identified with a black bullet tip.

[JohnRich 4]

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I still have some of the old armor piercing rounds at home in 30/06. I wonder if they have a steel core? I always wondered how that bullet was constructed. Maybe I should get a hack saw and find out.

Yes, a steel core, surrounded by lead, with a copper jacket. Obviously, you don't want direct steel-to-steel contact in the barrel, as that wears it out in no time. You need the soft lead to "squish" into the rifling grooves, to create the spin and the accuracy. And the copper jacket prevents the lead from getting into the pores of the barrel steel and corroding it.

If you hacksaw it, remove the bullet from the case first, to separate it from the stuff that might go "bang" from sparks or static electricity.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Two questions:

(1) Why a sabot round? Why not fire a solid round from a barrel that caliber? If the round would damage or wouldn't take spin from the barrel, see #2.

Very high velocities (> 4000 fps) without excessive barrel wear. No need to have different guns for short and long range (the ballistic coefficient on a smaller diameter bullet of a given length is worse than that of a big one, so it looses velocity faster, has less range, and doesn't shoot as flat).

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(2) Why not use a steel core (steel inside lead inside a copper jacket)round from a .308? I know these exist.

[Kennedy 0]

Once again proving I'm a pistol shooter who only enjoys dabbling in the ability to truly reach out and touch someone.

Since this debate is dead and no one has raised a decent reason why .50s should be resitrcted, let alone banned, anyone care to move on?

I must admit I've truly enjoyed playing with PolyShok rounds from an 870 Police Magnum.
My God, those things are wonderful. They have the kick of bird shot, fly as accurately as a slug (or better), hit harder than any slug on earth, and best of all they lose lethal energy within three feet of their first barrier (wall, water, bady, etc).

Their biggest drawbacks (and possibly only drawbacks) are that they are military, LEO, security-only sales, and they are expensive as heck.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[warpedskydiver 0]

I have been using Federal Supreme Gold Patition Sabots 385grain @2000fps

Makes that 12 Gauge nearly a rifle and surpasses 45-70cal

[Kennedy 0]

Those are fun, but while they are VERY effective for "serious social encounters," they can be less than socially responsible. It's generally bad manners to hit someone else even after you put the bad guy down for good.

Buck shot doesn't tend to overpenetrate if it hits the target, but with nine little liability makers, odds are higher than we like that there will be collateral damage, especially in densely packed urban and suburban areas.

PolyShok transfers nearly 100% of its energy to the first thing it hits. If that thing is a human, that human will be missing pieces, or the yellow mushroom will 'shake loose the mortal coil.' If not, even thin sheet rock walls are enough to open the round and disperse lethal energy within two or three feet of the wall.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[jm951 0]

I saw a mention of 45/70 one of my favorite calibers. The thing I like about that round is the versatility. Factory loads are very mild, having been designed for the old trapdoor Springfields. With a modern bolt or falling block design, the 45/70 can be pushed almost into the same energy range as the 458 Win. We chronoed 300gr hp out of my bolt gun at about 2500fps. The real problem with the majority of the readily available bullets is the low ballistic cooefficient, ie the aerodynamics of a brick.

Back to the big 50, I don't think it should be regulated past what's already imposed on normal, semi sporting rifles. The cost alone of one of these toys will keep it out of the hands of many in the criminal world where concealability is very important. It's hard to sneak into a convenience store with a Barret under your coat.

[FrEaK_aCcIdEnT 0]

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Should .50 Cal weapons be banned?

NO

nuff said

Short, Simple, correct answer

ExPeCt ThE uNeXpEcTeD!
DoNt MiNd ThE tYpOs, Im LaZy On CoRrEcTiOnS!