Think gas prices will go up if Iran get nuked?

[akarunway 1]

Do you think it will get this far? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2535310,00.html

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[willard 0]

Gas prices will go up if this happens.
Gas prices will go up if this doesn't happen.

Will it go that far? I don't know, but I sure hope not. I find it hard to understand why they would consider nukes when they have other weapons that would work just as well without the international condemnation that would surely follow.

[Gawain 0]

I hope it doesn't happen that way either. As the US is already the "bad boy" in the neighborhood, and arguably already "alienated", it would make sense that if the last resort is taken, it be the US that does it (conventional means).

It keeps Israel out of it and would force Iran to calculate in the premise that there is no doubt on the US's ability and will to use nukes.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[GQ_jumper 4]

You know, I wouldn't support the attack at the moment because I think there is more that can be done diplomatically at this point, as a last resort, yeah go for it. One thing about Isreal is if there is anyone who faces a truly REAL threat from Muslim's it's them, they are surrounded by people who want to wipe them out, and they don't take their security lightly, don't forget the strike against the Iraqi plant years ago. I applaud them for keeping their eyes on the real threat, but think they need to exhaust all other options first, you know if they stir up the hornet's nest we are going to be the ones in there puttin gout the fires, and if you think an Iraqi insurgency is bad, wait til Iran kicks off, we will have three fronts all connected geographically and it will be freedom of movement between all three for fighters.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[billvon 2,998]

> As the US is already the "bad boy" in the neighborhood, and arguably already "alienated" . . .

I don't think you've seen "alienated" yet. If we use nuclear weapons against an innocent (i.e. non-violent) country, it might just inspire China, Venezuela etc to do something about us. After all, they might be next.

[matthewcline 0]

Your saying Iran is non-violent? or even innocent?

Just trying to keep up.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[SpeedRacer 1]

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> As the US is already the "bad boy" in the neighborhood, and arguably already "alienated" . . .

I don't think you've seen "alienated" yet. If we use nuclear weapons against an innocent (i.e. non-violent) country, it might just inspire China, Venezuela etc to do something about us. After all, they might be next.

Oh shit! We'd better launch a pre-emptive strike against those countries too then.

Speed Racer
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[willard 0]

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> As the US is already the "bad boy" in the neighborhood, and arguably already "alienated" . . .

I don't think you've seen "alienated" yet. If we use nuclear weapons against an innocent (i.e. non-violent) country, it might just inspire China, Venezuela etc to do something about us. After all, they might be next.

Oh shit! We'd better launch a pre-emptive strike against those countries too then.

And Canada! Then maybe they'll share the "good" Blue with us instead of sending the crap batches down.

[kallend 2,027]

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Your saying Iran is non-violent? or even innocent?

Just trying to keep up.

Matt

When was the last time the US invaded another sovereign nation?
When was the last time Iran invaded another sovereign nation?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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> As the US is already the "bad boy" in the neighborhood, and arguably already "alienated" . . .

I don't think you've seen "alienated" yet. If we use nuclear weapons against an innocent (i.e. non-violent) country, it might just inspire China, Venezuela etc to do something about us. After all, they might be next.

Read my post, I said "conventional means". Iran would then have to reflect on the fact that the US has, in fact, used nuclear weapons as they determine their subsequent course of action/inaction/response, etc.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Amazon 7]

I think gas prices will rise astronomically because this Administration will need to line their pockets just as much as the can before Jan 19 2009

Look for numerous fiascos that they lead us into to a cause for oil prices to rise under their oh so wise leadership.

[matthewcline 0]

Is that how violent and non-violent is defined?

Funding terrorists and insurgents or sending Special Operations Forces for direct action is non-violent?

(yes I know we send Special Operations Forces abroad)

Iran is far from non-violent and I know 52 Americans who would agree with me, if they where all alive.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[billvon 2,998]

> Your saying Iran is non-violent? or even innocent?

They are currently not invading other countries or attacking the US. They are far more nonviolent than we are, for example. We have, of course, labeled them as Very Bad, but we are learning that our poor opinion of others is no longer sufficient for killing hundreds of thousands of people.

[matthewcline 0]

CNN and FOX announced in stories this weekend of the Iranian Clergy leading some of the current activity labeled "insurgent upswing".

From as early as May of 2003 I captured Iranian SOF soldiers. So in my opinion, they are not able to qualify as Non-violent.

Iran may not be openly involved in the MSM Bill, but they have never left the scene they joined in the late 70's.

But again I do not take this opinion from the MSM, only my personal experience.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[pop 0]

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innocent (i.e. non-violent)

Bill...innocent and non-violent arent always the same thing. Iran has been non-violent so far, but it has clearly stated it wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. That is a very real threat, considering the relations between Israel and the surrounding Muslim countries.

An preamptive attack by Israel would be one of self-defense, and a reasonable one as well. Israel isnt going to sit around and wait to be attacked. It never has, and this is only reason why 50 years later it is still here.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[billvon 2,998]

>but it has clearly stated it wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

And we've stated we want to destroy the Axis of Evil. And the USSR was going to "bury" us. Politicians like to bluster.

>An preamptive attack by Israel would be one of self-defense, and a
>reasonable one as well.

In other words, Iran really does have to fear an unprovoked attack from Israel? That would make a pre-emptive attack by Iran 100% justified as well.

Pre-emptive attacks lead to world war. There is no excuse for them.

[Gawain 0]

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In other words, Iran really does have to fear an unprovoked attack from Israel? That would make a pre-emptive attack by Iran 100% justified as well.

The only thing keeping Iran from being directly "involved" in Israel is the thinly veiled money trail to Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,027]

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In other words, Iran really does have to fear an unprovoked attack from Israel? That would make a pre-emptive attack by Iran 100% justified as well.

The only thing keeping Iran from being directly "involved" in Israel is the thinly veiled money trail to Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.

Like the USA hasn't had money trails to lots of undesirable people and organizations

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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In other words, Iran really does have to fear an unprovoked attack from Israel? That would make a pre-emptive attack by Iran 100% justified as well.

The only thing keeping Iran from being directly "involved" in Israel is the thinly veiled money trail to Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.

Like the USA hasn't had money trails to lots of undesirable people and organizations

I won't dispute that, but it's pretty fair to say we've been more open about our ties (e.g. Iraq v. Iran, Contras v. Sandinistas, Mujahideen v. USSR, etc.). There was no real secret there, not much denial to speak of.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Darius11 12]

Will if we don’t want to be hypocrites we should hold the same standards for all nations.

Do you think the US should be considered violent?

Lets compare the number of dead? No ok then lets compare the number of wars started or that the countries in question have been involved in? (Keep in mind Iran did not start the Iran and Iraq war)
What you say no. Ok then lets go by who’s a bigger nuclear threat? US has used and has stated that they will use more nuclear weapons even on countries that do not have such weapons.

So what’s your standard?

Iran took American Hostages who were presumed to be spy’s in 1979 and that’s your reasoning for calling Iran violent?

As for Israel we all know the deal with them. They started their nation by mass murdering Palestinians, but wonder why they are hated. So lets see all the nations in the region hate Israel and think of Israel (rightfully so IMHO) as a murdering cruel nation that has stolen land from people who were unable to protect themselves, but once again we assume every one is wrong and we are right. How is that way of thinking working out for you in Iraq?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Skyrad 0]

Israel faces a threat from SOME Arab states and the Iranians. Israel doesn't face a threat from all Muslims. I was brought up in a Muslim family and was taught that the Jews are our cousins, not people to be hated as is often portrayed on TV. Its not just because I was brought up in the UK either. My cousins were taught the same in school in Pakistan. The countries that have the most problem with Israel seem to be Shia majority countries not Sunni ones.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rehmwa 2]

So Darius11

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As for Israel we all know the deal with them. They started their nation by mass murdering Palestinians, but wonder why they are hated. So lets see all the nations in the region hate Israel and think of Israel (rightfully so IMHO) as a murdering cruel nation that has stolen land from people who were unable to protect themselves, but once again we assume every one is wrong and we are right.

and Skyrad

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Israel faces a threat from SOME Arab states and the Iranians. Israel doesn't face a threat from all Muslims. I was brought up in a Muslim family and was taught that the Jews are our cousins, not people to be hated as is often portrayed on TV.

the contrast between these two individuals that may or may not have some form of muslim ancestry, but at least seem to choose to represent themselves in a manner of which a muslim historical context or importance may or may not have been in place as some major or minor effective part of their present and/or historical basis for achieving a consensus opinion of world events in either a research vs a solely gut feel type of decision making internal process is one of the most poignant things I've seen on this subject in DZ.com

edit: for reasons of mockery - both self and otherwise

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,027]

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In other words, Iran really does have to fear an unprovoked attack from Israel? That would make a pre-emptive attack by Iran 100% justified as well.

The only thing keeping Iran from being directly "involved" in Israel is the thinly veiled money trail to Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.

Like the USA hasn't had money trails to lots of undesirable people and organizations

I won't dispute that, but it's pretty fair to say we've been more open about our ties (e.g. Iraq v. Iran, Contras v. Sandinistas, Mujahideen v. USSR, etc.). There was no real secret there, not much denial to speak of.

No denial, openness? Ha ha! "I'm sorry, I can't recall"

You might take a look at the Tower Commission report.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

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As for Israel we all know the deal with them. They started their nation by mass murdering Palestinians, but wonder why they are hated. So lets see all the nations in the region hate Israel and think of Israel (rightfully so IMHO) as a murdering cruel nation that has stolen land from people who were unable to protect themselves, but once again we assume every one is wrong and we are right. How is that way of thinking working out for you in Iraq?

DUDE.. you really do need to read some history books other than those approve by the Ayatollahs... sheesh..we have gone down this road before.

As far as taking over the embassy because some of the company men were supposedly there.... EVERY EMBASSY in the world has intelligence people from their respective Intelligence services...LAME EXCUSE... and the Iranian people payed for their mistake in international diplomacy with the death of millions.
ITs not nice when you do not play by the accepted rules of diplomacy and national sovereinty of an Embassy.. ONLY Iran has done that...

[falxori 0]

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Israel faces a threat from SOME Arab states and the Iranians. Israel doesn't face a threat from all Muslims.

true. Israel has signed a full peace treaty with egypt and jordan (even if its not a warm peace). and has low ranking representation (mostly commercial) in other muslim and arab countries.

the problem with Iran is that it openly called for the destruction of Israel (not to mention other cool ideas about the holocaust) and is actively supporting and even leading acts of war against Israel.
add to that the fact that it is control by religious fanatics and you can see why Israel is worried.

that said, i really hope Israel would not act alone on this, this problem goes far beyond just Israel.

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."