Zipp0 1 #1 January 12, 2007 70% of Americans do not want the escalation in Iraq planned by the President. Congressional Democrats and many Republicans have come out against the plan. It has been called reckless and incorrect. The military commanders on the ground, who Bush pledged to listen to, said that more troops were not the answer. They have now been replaced, and ignored. The Iraq study group, a bipartisan effort to find answers to these questions, has been mostly ignored. The President has all but promised military action in the very near future against Iran and Syria, and has sent a carrier battle group into the Persian Gulf to back his rhetoric. Given these facts, and the fact that congress seems afraid, unwilling, or unable to act, what can be done to stop this madness? -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #2 January 12, 2007 Throw your medals over the White House fence... then run for President in 30 more years.. that'll teach him!! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #3 January 12, 2007 During the Vietnam war, Americans took to the streets en masse. A generation later, nobody has the balls to do that anymore. In a democracy, people tend to get the government they deserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #4 January 12, 2007 QuoteIn a democracy, people tend to get the government they deserve. Thank God we're not quite to THAT point...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #5 January 12, 2007 Considering my job (goverment) I am afraid to protest. I am sure that with the present administration I would be photographed, identified, and then told I lost my access, and am no longer needed. I wish I didn't like my job, the benefits, and job security...... -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #6 January 12, 2007 QuoteConsidering my job (goverment) I am afraid to protest. I am sure that with the present administration I would be photographed, identified, and then told I lost my access, and am no longer needed. I wish I didn't like my job, the benefits, and job security...... so then it's really not that bad after all, I guess? Either that, or you just want someone else to speak for you. It's a lot different when someone is willing to put themselves on the line and also be responsible for their actions - directly, and not by proxy. How bad does it have to get (or how bad does your perception of how it is have to get) before you are willing to sacrifice that job and find another? Seems it's not REALLY important, just more of a way to pass the time. digression here and not directly at Zipp0 - The desire for anonymity in the world is a big reason that people don't have the courage of their convictions, and also why people think it's ok to be rude and pushy to others. Also, the abdication of responsibility by doing everything by proxy relates too. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #7 January 12, 2007 Quote70% of Americans do not want the escalation in Iraq planned by the President. Congressional Democrats and many Republicans have come out against the plan. It has been called reckless and incorrect. The military commanders on the ground, who Bush pledged to listen to, said that more troops were not the answer. They have now been replaced, and ignored. The Iraq study group, a bipartisan effort to find answers to these questions, has been mostly ignored. The President has all but promised military action in the very near future against Iran and Syria, and has sent a carrier battle group into the Persian Gulf to back his rhetoric. Given these facts, and the fact that congress seems afraid, unwilling, or unable to act, what can be done to stop this madness? Well, what do they normally do here in the US with inept executives who miserably fail their company? The give them the boot along with a huge golden parachute. I suggest we do the same thing, only over Iraq....with an actual golden parachute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #8 January 12, 2007 QuoteDuring the Vietnam war, Americans took to the streets en masse. A generation later, nobody has the balls to do that anymore. In a democracy, people tend to get the government they deserve. Paging General Giap Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #9 January 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteConsidering my job (goverment) I am afraid to protest. I am sure that with the present administration I would be photographed, identified, and then told I lost my access, and am no longer needed. I wish I didn't like my job, the benefits, and job security...... so then it's really not that bad after all, I guess? Either that, or you just want someone else to speak for you. It's a lot different when someone is willing to put themselves on the line and also be responsible for their actions - directly, and not by proxy. How bad does it have to get (or how bad does your perception of how it is have to get) before you are willing to sacrifice that job and find another? Seems it's not REALLY important, just more of a way to pass the time. digression here and not directly at Zipp0 - The desire for anonymity in the world is a big reason that people don't have the courage of their convictions, and also why people think it's ok to be rude and pushy to others. Also, the abdication of responsibility by doing everything by proxy relates too. My point WAS, I should be able to protest my government without fear of losing my job. Curretly that is not possible. And I do want someone to speak for me - congress. I voted for them and my taxes pay them, and they are not doing their job. They are not representing us. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vpozzoli 0 #10 January 12, 2007 Quote70% of Americans do not want the escalation in Iraq planned by the President. Congressional Democrats and many Republicans have come out against the plan. It has been called reckless and incorrect. The military commanders on the ground, who Bush pledged to listen to, said that more troops were not the answer. They have now been replaced, and ignored. The Iraq study group, a bipartisan effort to find answers to these questions, has been mostly ignored. The President has all but promised military action in the very near future against Iran and Syria, and has sent a carrier battle group into the Persian Gulf to back his rhetoric. Given these facts, and the fact that congress seems afraid, unwilling, or unable to act, what can be done to stop this madness? Isn't this what the 2nd Amendment should be there for? If the government does not represent tha people any more it should be dismissed. If it refuses then the (well armed) people should forcibily remove it. Yes, I am being sarcastic (in a broad sense, not directed at the OP). Cheers, Vale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #11 January 12, 2007 And I do want someone to speak for me - congress. I voted for them and my taxes pay them, and they are not doing their job. QuoteThey are not representing us. Your side is doing exactly what it's been doing for years. If Bush says it's white, they say it's black. Every time that he tries to make the machine run more smoothly, they come along and throw sand in the gears. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #12 January 12, 2007 QuoteAnd I do want someone to speak for me - congress. I voted for them and my taxes pay them, and they are not doing their job. QuoteThey are not representing us. Your side is doing exactly what it's been doing for years. If Bush says it's white, they say it's black. Every time that he tries to make the machine run more smoothly, they come along and throw sand in the gears. My side? I am a registered Republican. My side, in this case, consists of the vast majority of Americans. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #13 January 12, 2007 QuoteI should be able to protest my government without fear of losing my job. Ummm...........yeah...............It's called a "Clearance" for a reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #14 January 12, 2007 QuoteThe President has all but promised military action in the very near future against Iran and Syria, and has sent a carrier battle group into the Persian Gulf to back his rhetoric. They have sheltered and aided those that have declared war on us. They should be attacked with overwhelming force. If you want to stop Bush during his last 2 years, you can support those that advocate his impeachment.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #15 January 12, 2007 QuoteMy point WAS, I should be able to protest my government without fear of losing my job. Curretly that is not possible. wrong - you should be able to protest your government without losing your job (unless it's part of a mutually agreed upon job contract condition). Nobody has the responsibility over whether you fear it or not - no one but you can control that. also, if unfairly losing your job because of some civil demonstration is real, then I'd say it's worth that loss to be part of the change. Keep good records and wear a nice suit to court when you sue your previous employer for wrongful discharge. ("wrongful discharge" is a funny phrase out of context) lastly, you asked what WE can do to stop Bush - not congress, I assume that since congress isn't supporting your position was the reason for the post - as request to personal action, not government representation, so that comment is "moo" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #16 January 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteI should be able to protest my government without fear of losing my job. Ummm...........yeah...............It's called a "Clearance" for a reason. So, in order for someone to be trustworthy they can never voice their disagreement with your ideas? And if they do, you crush them? That is precisely what got us into this mess. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #17 January 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteI should be able to protest my government without fear of losing my job. Ummm...........yeah...............It's called a "Clearance" for a reason. one can protest without release of classified info - that's bad logic ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #18 January 12, 2007 Quote Keep good records and wear a nice suit to court when you sue your previous employer for wrongful discharge. It's pretty much impossible to sue the government. Quote lastly, you asked what WE can do to stop Bush - not congress, I assume that since congress isn't supporting your position was the reason for the post - as request to personal action, not government representation, so that comment is "moo" The reason for the post was the fact that most Americans and most of congress does not agree with what our government is doing, yet we are plodding forward like a retarded oaf, unable to change course. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #19 January 12, 2007 Then go protest - keep the secret stuff secret - don't be a freak about - but work towards communication and polite protests instead of loud vocal impotent protests. If you had a contract agreement not to protest, then find another job, quit this one, and go protest in a productive manner. Your fear is very unlikely anything but paranoia. If it's really true, you don't want to work there. and, don't sue the "GOVERNMENT", sue the manager that actually fired you - that where the abuse usually lies, at the biased individual level. Whether or not his action is claimed to be based on some wierd theory of a culture. Look that individual in the eye and work it that way. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #20 January 12, 2007 QuoteSo, in order for someone to be trustworthy they can never voice their disagreement with your ideas? Are you really THAT clueless on this situation? Lets look at history. Someone mentioned protests during Vietnam. Any idea how involved North Vietnam became with the protest and anti war movement in the US? Any idea how many "terrorist" organizations do fund raising in the US? Is it conceivable that MAYBE............just maybe these organizations would promote civil strife in any way they can in order to further their own objectives. It certainly happened in the case of North Vietnam. It's happening now with terrorism. Our enemies WELL understand that American public opinion is the chink in the Dragon's armor. They see the American people as weak and gutless. Now fast forward..........you are protesting the actions of your govt in a peaceful manner. Do you think the govt is going to waste ALL that time and money to investigate whether or not you have any ties to the subversive groups or do you think they would find it easier to just terminate your clearance and find another employee? I'm betting on the latter. Life ain't fair.......get used to it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #21 January 12, 2007 Quote Given these facts, and the fact that congress seems afraid, unwilling, or unable to act, what can be done to stop this madness? I had another thought on the matter, but unfortunately it involves Congress. I suggest that we immediately implement a war tax to pay for this fiasco. The amount should be easy enough to figure considering that Bush has kept most of it off budget using "emergency" supplemental requests. Secondly, and this is an old idea, we take the DoD off budget and fund it like we do Social Security. I'd like the expense to show up on our pay stubs. Maybe then people will start holding government accountable for the money we give them and for their propensity to wage "wars" of choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #22 January 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo, in order for someone to be trustworthy they can never voice their disagreement with your ideas? Are you really THAT clueless on this situation? Lets look at history. Someone mentioned protests during Vietnam. Any idea how involved North Vietnam became with the protest and anti war movement in the US? Any idea how many "terrorist" organizations do fund raising in the US? Is it conceivable that MAYBE............just maybe these organizations would promote civil strife in any way they can in order to further their own objectives. It certainly happened in the case of North Vietnam. It's happening now with terrorism. Our enemies WELL understand that American public opinion is the chink in the Dragon's armor. They see the American people as weak and gutless. Now fast forward..........you are protesting the actions of your govt in a peaceful manner. Do you think the govt is going to waste ALL that time and money to investigate whether or not you have any ties to the subversive groups or do you think they would find it easier to just terminate your clearance and find another employee? I'm betting on the latter. Life ain't fair.......get used to it. So, any time there is a protest it is backed and funded by subversive elements, like terrorists or Iranians? By that logic, anyone who would ever disagree with the actions of the government, no matter how obscene, would automatically be the agent of a foreign organization? I hate to break it to you, but many of those who would protest a government action are patriots who do not want to see their beloved country go down the shitter. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #23 January 12, 2007 EGAD I cant actually believe I am hearing the same TRIPE that we had to listen to 37 years ago.... So much for the freedom of speech that we as americans were SUPPOSED to have. Same classs of people.. making the same absurd assumptions about ANYONE who would dare to oppose their dirty little war. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #24 January 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI should be able to protest my government without fear of losing my job. Ummm...........yeah...............It's called a "Clearance" for a reason. So, in order for someone to be trustworthy they can never voice their disagreement with your ideas? And if they do, you crush them? That is precisely what got us into this mess. Well, DAMN them for thinking that someone working for the government shouldn't be acting against the government. Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #25 January 12, 2007 QuoteSecondly, and this is an old idea, we take the DoD off budget and fund it like we do Social Security. I'd like the expense to show up on our pay stubs. Too bad SS hasn't been off budget for decades... Quote Maybe then people will start holding government accountable for the money we give them and for their propensity to wage "wars" of choice. Somalia Bosnia KosovoMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
