livendive 8 #101 January 12, 2007 Quote I for one am glad he is the President (for this topic anyway) The Churchhill of our time I think And here I always thought it was just your sources and methods of debate that needed improvement. Wow. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #102 January 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteGreat leaders Aside from Dubya's mother, you are the only person on the PLANET who believes he's either a great leader or worthy of a comparison to Winston Churchill. My God. I make my share of sweeping statements, but speaking for the entire world is not one I've made yet. I have learned that for some, it is hard to hear a contrary position when they certin they are right! The other choice is to defend and debate ones opinion. Hope that clears things up....."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #103 January 12, 2007 QuoteQuote I for one am glad he is the President (for this topic anyway) The Churchhill of our time I think And here I always thought it was just your sources and methods of debate that needed improvement. Wow. Blues, Dave I suppose I should bow to the self apointed most inteligent on the site"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,544 #104 January 12, 2007 QuoteI have learned that for some, it is hard to hear a contrary position when they certin they are right! The other choice is to defend and debate ones opinion.The majority of the time that you address a position contrary to yours, it's either to say "it's not worth debating" or "I disagree and I have sources that agree with me." Neither of those is debating the substance. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #105 January 12, 2007 Quote I have learned that for some, it is hard to hear a contrary position when they certin they are right! That's pretty good! You summarized Bush's Iraq policy in one single sentence Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #106 January 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteI have learned that for some, it is hard to hear a contrary position when they certin they are right! The other choice is to defend and debate ones opinion.The majority of the time that you address a position contrary to yours, it's either to say "it's not worth debating" or "I disagree and I have sources that agree with me." Neither of those is debating the substance. Wendy W. The majority of the time? Hmm, interesting stat......"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #107 January 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteI have learned that for some, it is hard to hear a contrary position when they certin they are right! The other choice is to defend and debate ones opinion.The majority of the time that you address a position contrary to yours, it's either to say "it's not worth debating" or "I disagree and I have sources that agree with me." Neither of those is debating the substance. Wendy W. I thought more about your post here. 1st, why should I not use sites that I think provide more substance than those who argue the other side? When I do use sites my sources are lambasted as bought out or extreem right wing. What are the others sites? Center of the road and known to be correct? 2nd, I have an opinion based on what I learn and read. The difference between me and many (not you) on this site is I am not vain enough the think those on the other side are stupid, uneducated, being given my opion , can't think for my self and other BS (and that inuendo is aimed at me regularly)..I do make comments back at times that are not substantive, but that is usulally when I feel the other side is talking down at me. So, I hope your sources are perfect and always correct, even if you think they are wrong"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
watchdog2 0 #108 January 12, 2007 HEEEELLO!!!! He is a dictator!! HELLO!!!! Do you really think you are free?? HELLO!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #109 January 12, 2007 QuoteQuote I for one am glad he is the President (for this topic anyway) The Churchhill of our time I think And here I always thought it was just your sources and methods of debate that needed improvement. Wow. Blues, Dave I also forgot you have the only "credible" sources on the net."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,544 #110 January 12, 2007 QuoteGiven these facts, and the fact that congress seems afraid, unwilling, or unable to act, what can be done to stop this madness?The best thing about the American system is that we are guaranteed a new president in 2 years, and we trust that. So we're unlikely to have a coup, or any other sort of power grab. Protests didn't stop Vietnam, and they would be unlikely to stop this war. The country as a whole is plenty strong enough to withstand this crap. Not all individuals are, and in the short run it's damaging our relationships with other countries quite badly. We'll have to deal, as a country, with that bad will down the road, but such is life, and the advantage of living in a country with plenty of natural resources. What we can't guarantee is that there won't be any changes to our lifestyles or standards of living, and most of us would rather keep both of those -- we're well ahead of the vast majority of the world in ability to pursue quality of life. The results of serious civic unrest would probably be worse than the short-term stopping of the war, at least for America. Obviously that's not as true for Iraq, but it stands a decent chance of being bloody for awhile no matter what we do, unless we accept a long-term protective presence there. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #111 January 12, 2007 QuoteThe majority of the time that you address a position contrary to yours, it's either to say "it's not worth debating" or "I disagree and I have sources that agree with me." Neither of those is debating the substance. At least he says he does not respond to me any more.. with those non-sequiturs UNLESS its something that he agrees with... DAYUM I did not think that the BUSH attitude was clonable... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #112 January 12, 2007 QuoteHEEEELLO!!!! He is a dictator!! HELLO!!!! Do you really think you are free?? HELLO!!!! YES, HELLO, WHO IS IT? I CAN'T COME TO THE DOOR NOW I'M DOING THE DISHES! We are free, and Bush is not a dictator. The answer to the original poster's question is: Impeachment, if you can't wait for the next election. Another alternative is to deny funding to the military. The Dems in congress can choose to do either. Nothing is restraining them from doing it, and it would in fact make much of their political base very happy.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #113 January 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteHEEEELLO!!!! He is a dictator!! HELLO!!!! Do you really think you are free?? HELLO!!!! YES, HELLO, WHO IS IT? I CAN'T COME TO THE DOOR NOW I'M DOING THE DISHES! We are free, and Bush is not a dictator. The answer to the original poster's question is: Impeachment, if you can't wait for the next election. The Dems in congress can choose to impeach him. Nothing is restraining them from doing it, and it would in fact make much of their political base very happy. Though the harm from which relief is sought is much greater now than it was in the last Presidential impeachment, I think it's a bad idea. Like it or not, we, the people, elected this fucktard and should have to live with the results of our actions. Living with the consequences should be punishment enough to trigger the collective learning of a lesson. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #114 January 12, 2007 QuoteProtests didn't stop Vietnam I still think the protests had a salutory effect, even if only at an anemic pace. They helped cause LBJ to withdraw from running for a 2nd term, when he might have continued escalation had he been reelected. As the protests grew more widespread, more and more people in the mainstream of American society opened their eyes to the truth of the Vietnam fiasco and were willing to say so publicly. (LBJ is quoted as saying, "If I've lost Walter Cronkite, I've lost the country." And remember the beloved Dr. Benjamin Spock protesting the war?) And as much as Nixon hated the "hippie protesters" (and used the FBI, IRS, etc. to attack them), he also would probably have continued the escalation apace had there been no widespread protests, rather than beginning the phased withdrawal that he did (again, at an anemic pace). And remember, in 1968, Nixon ran on a platform of a "secret plan" to end the Vietnam war. It was probably bullshit, but I think it's safe to say that he made the claim at least in part in response to the mass protests. Widespread popular protest sometimes works to affect (or even topple) a government; while sometimes it doesn't work. It seemed to be pretty effective in Iran in the 1970's and in Eastern Europe in the 1980's/90's. Didn't work out too well in China, as shown by Tienamen Square. Anyhow, in an open, democratic nation, there's so much less potential jeopardy to a protestor as compared to in a repressive country, that (I think) there's almost a moral imperative to protest publicly, when your government has gone astray, as a means of petitioning it for redress. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #115 January 12, 2007 QuoteHe is a dictator!! HELLO!!!! If you think this, then you do not understand forms of government at all. He will be gone in two years, so that throws your rant right out...Of course if he is still there, then you will be right and I will be wrong. How about you quit saying stuff like this until then? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #116 January 12, 2007 How can we stop bush? Disable his fleet of flat-black helicopters. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #117 January 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteHe is a dictator!! HELLO!!!! If you think this, then you do not understand forms of government at all. He will be gone in two years, so that throws your rant right out...Of course if he is still there, then you will be right and I will be wrong. How about you quit saying stuff like this until then? He may not literally be a "dictator" according to the classic definition, but his administration, especially when the same party was rubber-stamping everything in Congress, is about as close to a dictatorship as can occur in the U.S. I don't know if you're old enough to have been politically aware during the Nixon administration, but I was, and I can tell you the parallels are striking. The only reason Nixon didn't harm our country more than he did is because the opposition party controlled both houses of Congress. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #118 January 12, 2007 QuoteHe may not literally be a "dictator" according to the classic definition, but his administration, especially when the same party was rubber-stamping everything in Congress, is about as close to a dictatorship as can occur in the U.S. I don't know if you're old enough to have been politically aware during the Nixon administration, but I was, and I can tell you the parallels are striking. The only reason Nixon didn't harm our country more than he did is because the opposition party controlled both houses of Congress. Being close to being a dictator is like being "kinda" pregnant. I can understand how some may FEEL that way, but that does not make it true. Also, people making crazy claims like that hurts their cause more than it helps. I for one really thank you for your thoughts. Well thought out and well communicated. I however disagree with the notion that we have anything like a dictator in the WH. People may not like him, but he is far from a dictator. I actually am interested to see if the Dem controlled Congress can do anything they have claimed to be trying to do. And I think a balance of power between the two is good. Although I think I would really prefer the Repubs to have the Congress and the Dems to have the WH. Since I think Congress really has more power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #119 January 12, 2007 QuoteHe will be gone in two years, so that throws your rant right out...Of course if he is still there, then you will be right and I will be wrong. How about you quit saying stuff like this until then? And if he does declare Martial Law... and dissolves the congress.. and remains in power for "the good of the country" then what are you going to do Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #120 January 12, 2007 QuoteAnd if he does declare Martial Law... and dissolves the congress.. and remains in power for "the good of the country" then what are you going to do Hope that the Dem controled Congress has not Amended the 2nd out of existance. If he does leave in two years without declaring Martial Law, what are you going to do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #121 January 12, 2007 Thank Jesus for delivering us from Evil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #122 January 12, 2007 QuoteThank Jesus for delivering us from Evil. Got proof to back up any of those claims? 1. There is a Jesus. 2. "W" is Evil. But really, I doubt Bush is evil anymore than any other politician. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #123 January 12, 2007 QuoteHe may not literally be a "dictator" according to the classic definition, but his administration, especially when the same party was rubber-stamping everything in Congress, is about as close to a dictatorship as can occur in the U.S. The peak of this - Fall 2001 - end of 2003 - he and the Congress were doing nothing that the vast majority of the people didn't want. It may not have been very constitutional, but rather the tyranny of the masses, and certainly not a dictatorship. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #124 January 12, 2007 QuoteBut really, I doubt Bush is evil anymore than any other politician. That will be GOD's decision..... I am sure there is a special place all reserved for W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,075 #125 January 12, 2007 >Just a story for the agenda driven. Here are some comments from the lying liberal . . . uh . . . US troops in iraq: ------------- Caldwell, a tall, lean 20-year-old from Montesano, Wash, . . echoed a sentiment shared by many in his squad: "They're kicking a dead horse here. The Iraqi army can't stand up on their own." . . . "They feed us what they want," said Spec. Josh Lake, 26, of Ventura, Calif., referring to Iraqi intelligence. "I guarantee that everyone in the city knows where we're going. Because the IA told them. The only thing they don't know is how big a force we're coming with." "Pretty soon the Shiites will be tired of our presence, just like the Sunnis," said Lake, noting that the squad now makes almost daily trips to Hurriyah. "The general feeling among us is we're not really doing anything here," Caldwell said. "We clear one neighborhood, then another one fires up. It's an ongoing battle. It never ends." "We're constantly being told that it's not our fight. It is their fight," said Sgt. Jose Reynoso, 24, of Yuma, Ariz., speaking of the Iraqi army. "But that's not the case. Whenever we go and ask them for guys, they almost always say no, and we have to do the job ourselves." "You do have corruption problems among the ranks," said Sgt. Justin Hill, 24, of Abilene Tex., the squad leader. "I don't know what they can do about that. They have militias inside them. They are pretty much everywhere." Caldwell, as he listened to the conversation, leaned his head back and said: "I want to go back and play my PlayStation." --------------------------- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/11/AR2007011102219.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
