Debtor Nation

[NCclimber 0]

Can anyone explain how the US went from the world's greatest creditor nation to the world's greatest debtor nation?

I'm not looking for political finger pointing, but rather the economic and policy factors that caused this this dramatic change.

Anyone?

[Amazon 7]

I would put it right at the doorstep of any administrations who have allowed for runaway military spending to be the worlds policeman. Our "defense" budget far outstrips the what.. next 10 spenders or something like that... COMBINED.

[spudboy 0]

It has occured as a result of the uproven theory of supply side economics, throwing down a dollar and picking up a dime.

[Butters 0]

In another thread someone provided a link showing that Department of Defense spending was less than Health and Human Services spending. Military spending is part of the problem, but it is not the problem.

We have taken on massive amounts of debt through military spending, health and human services spending, providing aid to other nations (that has not and will not be repayed), trading with other nations, creating infrastructure for our economy, etc...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[billvon 2,990]

I recommend the book "Empire of Debt" by Bonner/Wiggin. It's a good overview of how we got here, and what our options are now.

[Gawain 0]

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In another thread someone provided a link showing that Department of Defense spending was less than Health and Human Services spending. Military spending is part of the problem, but it is not the problem.

Ding ding ding ding! We have a winner. Entitlements is the biggest money sucking maching in this country right now.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 2,990]

>Military spending is part of the problem, but it is not the problem.

Agreed, although I'd argue that it is our largest optional expense. We spend more per person on medical care than most socialist countries, and have higher infant mortality rates and shorter life expectancies.

[Butters 0]

A person can take out massive amounts of debt, buy a nice car, a nice house, live the good life. Eventually the debt must be repayed.

America took out (and is taking out) massive amounts of debt, that rapidly progressed and maintains our society (way of life). Eventually the debt must be repayed.

Similar to many other issues at hand, people know the issue exists, but would rather place their hands over their eyes and pretend it isn't there so they can maintain their way of life.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Entitlements is the biggest money sucking maching in this country right now.

Right.

So, at some point taxes will have to be raised to cover the debt. That's why I don't understand the concept of lowering taxes while at the same time increasing spending by mass amounts.

I think the fact that you find yourself in this mess, is a pretty clear indication that what you ahve been doing so far isn't working.

[rehmwa 2]

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I don't understand the concept of lowering taxes while at the same time increasing spending by mass amounts.

I agree, and even MORE so:

I don't understand the concept of massively increasing spending while trying to get the benefits of lowering taxes.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,026]

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In another thread someone provided a link showing that Department of Defense spending was less than Health and Human Services spending. Military spending is part of the problem, but it is not the problem.

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But WHY WHY WHY do we need to outspend the next 8 nations combined?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,990]

>That's why I don't understand the concept of lowering taxes while at
>the same time increasing spending by mass amounts.

Surely you have gotten spam along the lines of "eliminate debt by refinancing! Get extra cash NOW!" People think you can actually do that. There's also a sense of "well, we're giving the world so much, they'll forgive us our debt. Besides, it's not like they can just take it back."

No one wants to hear that you have to pay off your credit card debt to get out of debt. They want a scheme, a way to NOT pay it off and still be able to spend spend spend. Canny financers prey on this idea to get people further in debt. Even countries can see the benefits to doing this.

Bill's Prediction (tm) - the next big crisis will not be brought on by terrorism, it will be brought on by a debt crisis. Either a country will stop lending us money (and that will precipitate a rapid drying-up of available funding) or we will do something incredibly dumb like asking for debt relief. In either case, the value of the dollar will decline precipitously, and we will find ourselves with a tanking economy and runaway inflation.

[Butters 0]

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In another thread someone provided a link showing that Department of Defense spending was less than Health and Human Services spending. Military spending is part of the problem, but it is not the problem.

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But WHY WHY WHY do we need to outspend the next 8 nations combined?

Well, since so many people seem to believe the rest of the world hates us we need to be prepared to take on the next 8 nations when they attack us.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[kallend 2,026]

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In another thread someone provided a link showing that Department of Defense spending was less than Health and Human Services spending. Military spending is part of the problem, but it is not the problem.

...

But WHY WHY WHY do we need to outspend the next 8 nations combined?

Well, since so many people seem to believe the rest of the world hates us we need to be prepared to take on the next 8 nations when they attack us.

Is it just possible that no-one likes a busybody? Maybe if we stopped meddling in other nations' affairs we'd have fewer that hate us.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Butters 0]

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But WHY WHY WHY do we need to outspend the next 8 nations combined?

Well, since so many people seem to believe the rest of the world hates us we need to be prepared to take on the next 8 nations when they attack us.

Is it just possible that no-one likes a busybody? Maybe if we stopped meddling in other nations' affairs we'd have fewer that hate us.

[billvon 2,990]

>Well, since so many people seem to believe the rest of the
>world hates us we need to be prepared to take on the next 8 nations
>when they attack us.

What? Use our armed forces for defense of the United States? Where's the fun in that?

[Amazon 7]

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I don't understand the concept of massively increasing spending while trying to get the benefits of lowering taxes.

Its a function of cut taxes but spend spend spend...obviously the current people in charge have no problem with spending other peoples money.. yet make no provision for paying off the debt.

Most of that excessive debt can be laid directly on "defense spending" The current WAR... is good for big business defense contractors not so good for the debt. The scare tactics of BEING AT WAR... seem to have worked well to let them run away with that spending. Personally I would rather see money spent on PEOPLE rather than a new air craft carrier battle group..etc .etc...etc..

As the astute republican former general /president said.. BEWARE the military industrial complex.

[Royd 0]

In another thread someone provided a link showing that Department of Defense spending was less than Health and Human Services spending. Military spending is part of the problem, but it is not the problem.

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But WHY WHY WHY do we need to outspend the next 8 nations combined?

As I recall, when we first went to Iraq, the cry was that we were under armoured.

Personally, I think that we should be ready to roll with fierceness, at a moment's notice. We shouldn't have to wait two years to uparmour and get our ducks in a row.

[Amazon 7]

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As I recall, when we first went to Iraq, the cry was that we were under armoured.

Personally, I think that we should be ready to roll with fierceness, at a moment's notice. We shouldn't have to wait two years to uparmour and get our ducks in a row.

Yup it was more important to have all the BIG TICKET fancy toys... rather than spending for the little stuff like the up armour and body armour that would have actually pretected our people... instead of having them out on the garbage dumps liioking for a little bit of plate steel to improvise some armour...

Definitely a case of making the big contractors happy .. than protecting our people and making the few little companies who do the uparmor and vests happier...... they dont make the right campaign contributions me thinks.

[kallend 2,026]

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In another thread someone provided a link showing that Department of Defense spending was less than Health and Human Services spending. Military spending is part of the problem, but it is not the problem.

...

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But WHY WHY WHY do we need to outspend the next 8 nations combined?

As I recall, when we first went to Iraq, the cry was that we were under armoured.

Personally, I think that we should be ready to roll with fierceness, at a moment's notice. We shouldn't have to wait two years to uparmour and get our ducks in a row.

Well, there you have the answer, we need the military spending to wage unprovoked wars of aggression against sovereign nations half the world away.

Not having the armor was a matter of Pentagon priorities, not shortage of cash..

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,990]

>We shouldn't have to wait two years to uparmour and get our ducks in a row.

Not if we're attacked; we should be ready to go at a moment's notice with what we have. But if it's an optional war that can wait a few months - why the heck not? It's not like Saddam was going to 'get away.' And it would save a few hundred lives. (Or a few thousand, if the extra time let UNMOVIC complete its search.)