State of the Union

[Amazon 7]

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Believe me, if we were killing tens of thousands of Chinese a year, and claiming it was for their own good, they'd hate us too.

We have not done that now for ohhhh 55 years or so... but the Chinese have a VERY long memory.

[idrankwhat 0]

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No, I know why you did not respond. That is the easy part.

How did you know that I'd rather masturbate with a cheese grater?

[idrankwhat 0]

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I've watched 5 minutes and I already want to vomit. Thats all I have to say.

I feel that way when I hear Tom Petty sing "Freefallin' "

Or "I was skaaaaaahhhhhhdahviiiinnnnn, rocky mou...." ...oh, god...

[billvon 3,009]

>I feel that way when I hear Tom Petty sing "Freefallin' "

Not as bad as Marty Balin singing "skydiver."

[rushmc 23]

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No, I know why you did not respond. That is the easy part.

How did you know that I'd rather masturbate with a cheese grater?

OK, point taken.

On the other hand, (ah, no pun intended

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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>We are and always will be the "enemy" no matter what our policy
>in the middle east is.

We will always be the enemy to any people we kill in mass quantities. Believe me, if we were killing tens of thousands of Chinese a year, and claiming it was for their own good, they'd hate us too.

Why do you refuse to see that this started many years ago??? Long before Bush and the war.! Add to that, your statement is misleading if not dishonest.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

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OK, point taken.

On the other hand, (ah, no pun intended

Allright, I went back and re-read your post. It's better than most so I apologize for jumping to the conclusion that you were referring to more than just the extremists. Too many times in SC I've seen people readily substitute "Islam" for "radical Islamists". What I was really taking a shot at was the HannityRushBeck reference. So on behalf of the couple of hours sleep that my 4 mo old let me have last night, sorry about the Islam mix up but I'm sticking to the "courage of my convictions" with regard to disinformation radio.

[rushmc 23]

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OK, point taken.

On the other hand, (ah, no pun intended

Allright, I went back and re-read your post. It's better than most so I apologize for jumping to the conclusion that you were referring to more than just the extremists. Too many times in SC I've seen people readily substitute "Islam" for "radical Islamists". What I was really taking a shot at was the HannityRushBeck reference. So on behalf of the couple of hours sleep that my 4 mo old let me have last night, sorry about the Islam mix up but I'm sticking to the "courage of my convictions" with regard to disinformation radio.

Fair enough. I will try and reframe from smart ass posts as well (nothing implyed)

I still do not believe you "listen" to much if any of these entertainers.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[yjumpinoz 0]

I am pretty sure that to the Islamo-fascists we will be the enemy even if we were there feeding the poor and helping little old ladies across the street.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Fair enough. I will try and reframe from smart ass posts as well (nothing implyed)

I still do not believe you "listen" to much if any of these entertainers.

Much? No. I can't handle too much. The commercials and the constant ego stroke fest make it difficult to bear but I do tune in enough to find out what the talking points are and read some of their crap that shows up on the net. But thanks for referring to it as entertainment. Some people let their guard down and confuse entertainment with insight.

[billvon 3,009]

>This thread of Islam says you convert, pray to their god or die.
>There is no middle ground. Women can not drive, can be raped, are
> married into servitude and on and on.

Eh, parts of our bible say the same thing, and some lunatics actually believe it. Doesn't mean that christianity must be defeated or that we want all muslims dead.

>I think he is on the only path that has a chance of changing that
> region and removing the power holding nut jobs.

I don't think that he even knows what path we're on. We're going to "stay the course" but we have a "new strategy." "Absolutely, we're winning" but our strategy "wasn't working in Baghdad, so therefore we've got to do something different."

Every speech is basically the same - we're doing well over there, no need to worry, there are problems but they will be solved in six months, freedom's on the march etc. Let's take a look at speeches he made last year alone:

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And they blew up the mosque. And there was some awful violence, some reprisals taking place. And I can understand people saying, man, it's all going to - it's not working out. But the security forces did a pretty good job of keeping people apart.

In other words, it was a test. It was a test for the security forces, and it was a test for the Iraqi government. The way I like to put it is they looked into the abyss as to whether or not they want a civil war or not, and chose not to.
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(march)
It's vital to the security of a free Iraq that the police are free of militia influence. And so we're working with Iraqi leaders to find and remove leaders from the national police who show evidence of loyalties to militias.
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(april)
Iraqi leaders have taken some important steps forward. They have agreed to an agenda for the new government to take up once it assumes office -- including tough issues such as demobilization of the militias.
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(may)
As Prime Minister Maliki . . .will focus on improving the security situation in Baghdad and other parts of the country . . . He's vowed to eliminate illegal militias and armed gangs . . .moved some additional troops from Kuwait into Baghdad. Conditions on the ground were such that we needed more support in Baghdad, to secure Baghdad,
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(june)
The Prime Minister's plan to bring militias and other armed groups under government control is moving forward, and we talked about that plan. He understands how important it is to rein in these militias.
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(july)
Coalition and Iraqi forces will secure individual neighborhoods, will ensure the existence of an Iraqi security presence in the neighborhoods, and gradually expand the security presence as Iraqi citizens help them root out those who instigate violence.

This plan will involve embedding more U.S. military police with Iraqi police units to make them more effective . . . he and General Casey have agreed to deploy additional American troops and Iraqi security personnel in Baghdad in the coming weeks.
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(aug)
Recently, we also launched a major new campaign to end the security crisis in Baghdad. Side by side, Iraqi and American forces are conducting operations in the city's most violent areas . . . to crack down on IED makers, and break up the death squads.
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(sep)

...I made it very clear to the President that it's important for the government of Iraq to continue to make very difficult decisions so that the people of Iraq see progress
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(oct)

Absolutely, we're winning.
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(jan 2007)

. . . that's my primary concern in coming up with something different, was that it wasn't working in Baghdad, so therefore we've got to do something different.
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(go to http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/08/20060831-1.html to see one of those speeches; you can find the remainder in the same place.)

So what are we going to see next year? I predict it will be something like this:

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. . . but we are winning in Iraq. Our brave soldiers in Iraq are standing up to the new insurgent attacks, and we are poised to re-take Baghdad. I have spoken to Prime Minister Maliki, and he assures me that the Iraqi government is still functioning in Karbala. After we restore order in Baghdad we plan to re-take Baquba and support the Iraqis fighting for order there.

To ensure that the people of Iraq can live in peace, and to protect americans here at home, I am unveiling a new plan to bring about a final end to this war. After consulting with our military leaders, I have decided to increase our troop levels from 210,000 to 300,000. This will give the Iraqi troops the support they need to secure their country against attacks by these murderous terrorists, and allow US troops to come home soon.
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This war has gotten away from him. He simply doesn't know what to do to end it. His latest plan - adding a few more logs to the fire and hoping it goes out - will be no more successful than the dozens of plans he's announced previously. I hope it doesn't take his removal from office to get some competent leadership in place.

[billvon 3,009]

>Why do you refuse to see that this started many years ago???
>Long before Bush and the war.!

?? It DID start many years ago. Perhaps you remember a little thing we had called Desert Storm? You have to get over the idea that Bush is the only president we've ever had, or that every comment here is either in support of, or in condemnation of him.

[rushmc 23]

I am not talking about the bible (nice try)

Bush does know his course and he stated it well last night. I can't help you don't like the message

And I don't agree with the rest of your interpetations or better stated "translations.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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>Why do you refuse to see that this started many years ago???
>Long before Bush and the war.!

?? It DID start many years ago. Perhaps you remember a little thing we had called Desert Storm? You have to get over the idea that Bush is the only president we've ever had, or that every comment here is either in support of, or in condemnation of him.

Nope, years beore that.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[NCclimber 0]

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>This thread of Islam says you convert, pray to their god or die.
>There is no middle ground. Women can not drive, can be raped, are
> married into servitude and on and on.

Eh, parts of our bible say the same thing, and some lunatics actually believe it. Doesn't mean that christianity must be defeated or that we want all muslims dead.

One big difference is there are numerous Islamic societies that embrace these "barbaric" practices, whereas, I don't think there are any Christian ones.

[livendive 8]

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We are and always will be the "enemy" no matter what our policy in the middle east is.

I don't know if I agee with the always but for at least our life time.

I wish more could see this is not about the US.

Clearly more people need to look at all the muslim terrorist attacks against the predominately roman catholic countries in south america. And against Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Japan. Recognizing all those attacks will make it clear that they're not pissed specifically at the US, right?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

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>This thread of Islam says you convert, pray to their god or die.
>There is no middle ground. Women can not drive, can be raped, are
> married into servitude and on and on.

Eh, parts of our bible say the same thing, and some lunatics actually believe it. Doesn't mean that christianity must be defeated or that we want all muslims dead.

One big difference is there are numerous Islamic societies that embrace these "barbaric" practices, whereas, I don't think there are any Christian ones.

Is Amish considered "Christian"? What about Mormon?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 3,009]

>And I don't agree with the rest of your interpetations or better
>stated "translations.

Most of what I posted were not translations or interpretations. They were exact quotes from his speeches. You may disagree with them, but that sorta makes my case.

[Darius11 12]

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I am not talking about the bible (nice try)

Bush does know his course and he stated it well last night. I can't help you don't like the message

And I don't agree with the rest of your interpetations or better stated "translations.

I think the bible comment was meant for Mike.
He mentions a verse in the Koran and I believe Bill wanted to point out that similiar verse’s can be found in Christianity or Judaism. So bringing up a violent verse from the Koran as one of the reasons Muslims are bad is pertty hpyocritical.

As for your replay to me.

I understand there are extremists that are Muslims, but there are extremist all over the world in all religions.
Stock answer would be blowing up Abortion clinics and killing doctors it happens here as well.

The reason we are the target is simple. We have given a lot of normal rational thinking people (not talking about the extremists here) reasons to hate us as well. I tell you if someone bombed my house killed a family member then did it to my neighbor as well “sorry” wouldn’t cut it.

After anyone or any country repeatedly interferes in other countries affairs, Kills or injures there citizens, invades there land, Has military bases on there soil, or has a battleship with it’s canons pointed at your shores you tend to not be cool with the oops were sorry excuse. It has become a habit that we need to change.

Think how would we react if there were Iranians ships off of FL, or CA? Just to mention one of the many things we do to others and expect them to take it.

What we need to ask our selves is this. Are our actions making us safer?
I believe we would be much safer if we stayed out of other peoples land and stopped killing there people.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[akarunway 1]

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We have satellite, so it's easy enough to surf around and find reruns of Scrubs all over. In between, the Australian Open is playing.

I watched a Frontline program on the Meth Epidemic. Wild stuff.

Wild stuff eh? Did you try some?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[billvon 3,009]

>I am pretty sure that to the Islamo-fascists we will be the enemy
> even if we were there feeding the poor and helping little old ladies
> across the street.

Funny, I can recall exactly the same sort of rhetoric about the communists, how they would never stop hating us for living in a free democracy and for having lots of money. Can't keep a war going without fear, I suppose.

[mirage62 0]

Bill is one of the most intelligent posters here. He seems to have the memory of an elephant. I’m sure I wouldn’t want to get in a historical debate with Bill, or for that matter ANY debate. You couldn’t win, enlighten or change his view. He believes what he believes and has the intelligence to defend it better than just about anyone I know. Plus you have to play extra fair with him cause he’s a greenie.

No one seems to be talking about the fuel initiative that Bush brought up. My favorite part of the rebuttal was the point that that Bush had brought forward (I believe he said) six fuel initiatives but now that the Dem’s are in charge something will be done.

I hope so, all the recent Presidents have SAID they were going to do something. If we can put a man on the moon we can solve this problem if as a country we get behind it. Both sides. Unfortunately they never do.

I don’t believe that all the radical Islamic problems will go away if we could suddenly cut our need of foreign oil but it would make the ability to deal with it much easier.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[NCclimber 0]

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>This thread of Islam says you convert, pray to their god or die.
>There is no middle ground. Women can not drive, can be raped, are
> married into servitude and on and on.

Eh, parts of our bible say the same thing, and some lunatics actually believe it. Doesn't mean that christianity must be defeated or that we want all muslims dead.

One big difference is there are numerous Islamic societies that embrace these "barbaric" practices, whereas, I don't think there are any Christian ones.

Is Amish considered "Christian"? What about Mormon?

Blues,
Dave

Does Mormons or Amish say "convert, pray to their god or die"?

"Women can not drive, can be raped, are married into servitude"?

[wmw999 2,461]

Interesting, though, that the Wahabbis are the only major sect of Islam that the president didn't call out as having a facist arm.

That said, it's all in the interpretation. Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka is a Christian church, and they even have a pretty public presence. Does that mean that their (ridiculous) interpretation of Christianity should be considered a reflection on Christianity as a whole? No.

Islam, taken without a particular sect's wrapper of interpretation, and particularly in the context of when it started, is a pretty good religion. It raised the status of women, didn't discourage learning, and set forth a number of financial and judicial rules.

But people (of any type) really like to think they are smarter than the average bear, so they come up with interpretations, which begin to take on the power of law.

That said, what about the health care initiative? Those of us with "gold plated insurance" pay taxes, and the money goes as an exemption for people to be able to buy insurance. I sure hope the insurance companies get on the train, and make it available.

Healthcare is a huge issue in the US, and it's going to get worse. Because no one wants to change their lifestyle (e.g. eating right, exercising, driving less, whatever) when there is a pill to take, or some other easier option. And when you can get someone else to pay (insurance company, cheap gas, company car), it's even better.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[yjumpinoz 0]

I believe there is a difference between fear of what might happen and terrorist acts. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't remember the communists carring through with widespread acts of terror.