billvon 3,009 #101 January 25, 2007 >Sura 9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the > idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and > besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they > repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their > way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Deut 7:16 - Also you shall destroy all the peoples whom the LORD your God delivers over to you; your eye shall have no pity on them; nor shall you serve their gods, for that will be a snare to you. Numbers 31:15-18 - And Moses said to them: “Have you kept all the women alive? Look, these women caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to trespass against the LORD in the incident of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. But keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known a man intimately." Deut 13 - If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #102 January 25, 2007 QuoteThat said, what about the health care initiative? Those of us with "gold plated insurance" pay taxes, and the money goes as an exemption for people to be able to buy insurance. I sure hope the insurance companies get on the train, and make it available. The couple sound bites I've heard suggest it'll increase my taxes, because I'm single for tax purposes but have family-plan insurance to cover my daughter. I'd have to know the actual value of my plan to be sure (CNN quoted the average as being $11400ish...well over the $7500 deduction for a single person). Edit to add: If mine is about average, that'd mean I take a $3900 increase in taxable income due to providing insurance for my daughter, and her mom will get a $15,000 deduction in taxable income for not providing insurance. Do I understand this correctly? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,501 #103 January 25, 2007 Quote>I demand a Billvon T-shirt. Demand? No shirt for you! He spoke to me! (swoon)Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #104 January 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteYes, we are safer! How do you intend to prove this? Saying the US hasn't been attacked is hardly proof of being safer. No attacks. wheww, that was easy. How about turning this around. What is happening here that makes us less safe?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,034 #105 January 25, 2007 QuoteQuote>We are and always will be the "enemy" no matter what our policy >in the middle east is. We will always be the enemy to any people we kill in mass quantities. Believe me, if we were killing tens of thousands of Chinese a year, and claiming it was for their own good, they'd hate us too. Why do you refuse to see that this started many years ago??? Long before Bush and the war.! Add to that, your statement is misleading if not dishonest. You would be referring to our overthrow of the legitimate goverment of Iran in 1953?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,034 #106 January 25, 2007 Quote I am not talking about the bible (nice try) Bush does know his course and he stated it well last night. I can't help you don't like the message And I don't agree with the rest of your interpetations or better stated "translations. Bush knows he's dug himself a hole, and he's calling for more shovels. Or to put it another way, he's put one foot in quicksand, so his response is to put the other foot in.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,034 #107 January 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>This thread of Islam says you convert, pray to their god or die. >There is no middle ground. Women can not drive, can be raped, are > married into servitude and on and on. Eh, parts of our bible say the same thing, and some lunatics actually believe it. Doesn't mean that christianity must be defeated or that we want all muslims dead. One big difference is there are numerous Islamic societies that embrace these "barbaric" practices, whereas, I don't think there are any Christian ones. Is Amish considered "Christian"? What about Mormon? Blues, Dave Does Mormons or Amish say "convert, pray to their god or die"? Nope, that's a different branch of Christianity... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #108 January 25, 2007 QuoteNope, that's a different branch of Christianity There is a big difference between then and now. Like, several hundered years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #109 January 25, 2007 Quote>Sura 9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the > idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and > besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they > repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their > way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Deut 7:16 - Also you shall destroy all the peoples whom the LORD your God delivers over to you; your eye shall have no pity on them; nor shall you serve their gods, for that will be a snare to you. Numbers 31:15-18 - And Moses said to them: “Have you kept all the women alive? Look, these women caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to trespass against the LORD in the incident of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. But keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known a man intimately." Deut 13 - If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill him. How many Christian groups are CURRENTLY advocating those positions and telling people to convert or die, as the Islamic radicals are?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,009 #110 January 25, 2007 >How many Christian groups are CURRENTLY advocating those >positions and telling people to convert or die, as the Islamic radicals are? Well, let's see. We have the IRA; they've been fighting protestants for decades. They've killed thousands for believing in a slightly different version of the same religion. Christian Identity is a racial/religious group who believe that God "justifies the use of violence if it is perpetrated in order to punish violators of God's law, as found in the Bible and interpreted by Christian Identity ministers and adherents. This includes killing interracial couples, abortionists, prostitutes and homosexuals, burning pornography stores, and robbing banks and perpetrating frauds to undermine the usury system." Groups under the Christian Identity banner include Aryan Nations; Church of Jesus Christ Christian; Confederate Hammerskins; Jubilee; LaPorte Church of Christ; Kingdom Identity Ministries; and White Separatist Banner. The Army of God supports doctor killers in the US, and they kill in the name of god.. Members include Eric Rudolph, Clayton Waagner, Michael Bray, Paul Jennings Hill (executed for first degree murder) Shelley Shannon (shot a doctor; in jail) and James Charles Kopp (convicted of murder.) Myanmar is currently trying to destroy a christian terrorist organization that's trying to overthrow their government. The christians there try to forcibly convert hindus, and murder those that will not convert. In 2001 alone 400 hindus were killed and 500 disappeared (presumed kidnapped.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #111 January 25, 2007 Oh, let's add the christian missionaries in the amazon rainforest... reputed by an anthropologist friend of mine who lives there 6 months every year to be the most evil people he's ever met. They have a long-standing mission to convert or destroy and they're partially successful at both. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #112 January 25, 2007 Quote>How many Christian groups are CURRENTLY advocating those >positions and telling people to convert or die, as the Islamic radicals are? Well, let's see. We have the IRA; they've been fighting protestants for decades. They've killed thousands for believing in a slightly different version of the same religion. Christian Identity is a racial/religious group who believe that God "justifies the use of violence if it is perpetrated in order to punish violators of God's law, as found in the Bible and interpreted by Christian Identity ministers and adherents. This includes killing interracial couples, abortionists, prostitutes and homosexuals, burning pornography stores, and robbing banks and perpetrating frauds to undermine the usury system." Groups under the Christian Identity banner include Aryan Nations; Church of Jesus Christ Christian; Confederate Hammerskins; Jubilee; LaPorte Church of Christ; Kingdom Identity Ministries; and White Separatist Banner. The Army of God supports doctor killers in the US, and they kill in the name of god.. Members include Eric Rudolph, Clayton Waagner, Michael Bray, Paul Jennings Hill (executed for first degree murder) Shelley Shannon (shot a doctor; in jail) and James Charles Kopp (convicted of murder.) Myanmar is currently trying to destroy a christian terrorist organization that's trying to overthrow their government. The christians there try to forcibly convert hindus, and murder those that will not convert. In 2001 alone 400 hindus were killed and 500 disappeared (presumed kidnapped.) Don't forget Pat Robertson! He's always up for a targeted assassination here and there. (all I did was say "that piece of halibut was good enough for Jehova") http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOdARZ3bs0k&mode=related&search= Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #113 January 25, 2007 QuoteNo attacks. wheww, that was easy. So, if a dirty bomb were to be exploded in New York tomorrow, would you still be safer? Do you only determine being safer based on non-occurences in the past? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #114 January 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteNo attacks. wheww, that was easy. So, if a dirty bomb were to be exploded in New York tomorrow, would you still be safer? Do you only determine being safer based on non-occurences in the past? To date? Yes, how else would you do it. Let me turn it. Do you think we are less safe because you think we will be attacked again? My position is we will be attacked again not matter what. Going into Iraq has only served to delay that attack. But going into Iraq has also provided intel that may have stopped attacks too. Subjective I know but that works for both sides of this debate."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #115 January 25, 2007 QuoteLet me turn it. Do you think we are less safe because you think we will be attacked again? Personally I think you are less safe cause you ahve pissed off more people and have given many more people a reason to hate you. I think you are less safe because the perception of the US in the International world as a whole has taken a very negative turn. I think you are less safe cause the whole world knows that a third front is not sustainable for the US making threats against Iran and NK very hollow. I think you are less safe cause your own state department and intelligence agencies think you are less safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #116 January 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteLet me turn it. Do you think we are less safe because you think we will be attacked again? Personally I think you are less safe cause you ahve pissed off more people and have given many more people a reason to hate you.Quote Subjective on your part and I do not agree. Many that have "hated" us did so long before we went into Iraq. The reason has not changed (I will let you figure out the the reason is) I think you are less safe because the perception of the US in the International world as a whole has taken a very negative turn. When is comes to our safety I don't give a shit what the rest of the world thnks (the reasons are another thread) I think you are less safe cause the whole world knows that a third front is not sustainable for the US making threats against Iran and NK very hollow.Quote Hm, you know something I don't? Again, as I stated, subjective on your part. I think you are less safe cause your own state department and intelligence agencies think you are less safe. A piecemeal interpetation of the report for the purpose of the left"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #117 January 25, 2007 QuoteMy position is we will be attacked again not matter what. Going into Iraq has only served to delay that attack. But going into Iraq has also provided intel that may have stopped attacks too. How so? We basically have given people reason to hate us who if we had never invaded wouldn’t have even cared. The terrorist activity in Iraq has been the result of our invasion.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,009 #118 January 25, 2007 >A piecemeal interpetation of the report for the purpose of the left A conclusion by the US state department. One problem with defining everyone who disagrees with you as "leftist extremists" is that you end up with the whole world being leftist extremists. The "reasonable people" get winnowed down to a few televangelists and an overweight radio entertainer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #119 January 25, 2007 QuoteSubjective on your part and I do not agree. Many that have "hated" us did so long before we went into Iraq. The reason has not changed (I will let you figure out the the reason is) There are just more of them now. QuoteWhen is comes to our safety I don't give a shit what the rest of the world thnks (the reasons are another thread) I figured you would say soemthing along those lines. I don't particularly care what other people think of me. But when I know that a growing group of people wants to kill me, I do pay attention, even if I may not care what they actually think. QuoteA piecemeal interpetation of the report for the purpose of the left The US State Department? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #120 January 25, 2007 Quote>A piecemeal interpetation of the report for the purpose of the left A conclusion by the US state department. One problem with defining everyone who disagrees with you as "leftist extremists" is that you end up with the whole world being leftist extremists. The "reasonable people" get winnowed down to a few televangelists and an overweight radio entertainer. I havent defined anyone. I speak of subjective disagreements I get told I am told my positions and called stupid in PMs. Seems you are doing the defining here don't you think"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,009 #121 January 25, 2007 >I havent defined anyone. You called the state department's conclusion "an interpretation for the purpose of the left." Like I said, once you define everyone who disagrees with you that way, you're not left with much of a pool. >Seems you are doing the defining here don't you think I don't think the State Department makes "interpretations for purposes of the left." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites narcimund 0 #122 January 25, 2007 QuoteI am... called stupid in PMs. Seems you are doing the defining here don't you think Whose PMs are you blaming billvon for? First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #123 January 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteI am... called stupid in PMs. Seems you are doing the defining here don't you think Whose PMs are you blaming billvon for? None!! I am sorry if that is the way I came across. billvon has always treated me fairly"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumprunner 0 #124 January 26, 2007 QuoteQuote>This thread of Islam says you convert, pray to their god or die. >There is no middle ground. Women can not drive, can be raped, are > married into servitude and on and on. Eh, parts of our bible say the same thing, and some lunatics actually believe it. Doesn't mean that christianity must be defeated or that we want all muslims dead. One big difference is there are numerous Islamic societies that embrace these "barbaric" practices, whereas, I don't think there are any Christian ones. Oh, is that right? No Christian ones????? "I am sick of this life. I dont want to live another 10 days in this life" -Reverend Jim Jones, Jonestown, prior to the slaying of over 900 members of his congregation, mostly with forced injestion of sodium cyanide. Was Reverend Jim Jones a Muslim? No, he wasnt. He was a Christian. Do you consider the blatant murder of over 900 people, 300 or which were children, to be barbaric? Youre right, Christians dont embrace 'those' barbaric methods, they have a completely different set of ones. One of which currently entails fighting an illegal war of aggression in Iraq and the deaths of over 3000 US military, not to mention countless other civilian deaths. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #125 January 26, 2007 Dont forget Koresh..... they shot a bunch of the members as they set the fires...Adn all the children died there too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 5 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Darius11 12 #117 January 25, 2007 QuoteMy position is we will be attacked again not matter what. Going into Iraq has only served to delay that attack. But going into Iraq has also provided intel that may have stopped attacks too. How so? We basically have given people reason to hate us who if we had never invaded wouldn’t have even cared. The terrorist activity in Iraq has been the result of our invasion.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,009 #118 January 25, 2007 >A piecemeal interpetation of the report for the purpose of the left A conclusion by the US state department. One problem with defining everyone who disagrees with you as "leftist extremists" is that you end up with the whole world being leftist extremists. The "reasonable people" get winnowed down to a few televangelists and an overweight radio entertainer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #119 January 25, 2007 QuoteSubjective on your part and I do not agree. Many that have "hated" us did so long before we went into Iraq. The reason has not changed (I will let you figure out the the reason is) There are just more of them now. QuoteWhen is comes to our safety I don't give a shit what the rest of the world thnks (the reasons are another thread) I figured you would say soemthing along those lines. I don't particularly care what other people think of me. But when I know that a growing group of people wants to kill me, I do pay attention, even if I may not care what they actually think. QuoteA piecemeal interpetation of the report for the purpose of the left The US State Department? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #120 January 25, 2007 Quote>A piecemeal interpetation of the report for the purpose of the left A conclusion by the US state department. One problem with defining everyone who disagrees with you as "leftist extremists" is that you end up with the whole world being leftist extremists. The "reasonable people" get winnowed down to a few televangelists and an overweight radio entertainer. I havent defined anyone. I speak of subjective disagreements I get told I am told my positions and called stupid in PMs. Seems you are doing the defining here don't you think"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,009 #121 January 25, 2007 >I havent defined anyone. You called the state department's conclusion "an interpretation for the purpose of the left." Like I said, once you define everyone who disagrees with you that way, you're not left with much of a pool. >Seems you are doing the defining here don't you think I don't think the State Department makes "interpretations for purposes of the left." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #122 January 25, 2007 QuoteI am... called stupid in PMs. Seems you are doing the defining here don't you think Whose PMs are you blaming billvon for? First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #123 January 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteI am... called stupid in PMs. Seems you are doing the defining here don't you think Whose PMs are you blaming billvon for? None!! I am sorry if that is the way I came across. billvon has always treated me fairly"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumprunner 0 #124 January 26, 2007 QuoteQuote>This thread of Islam says you convert, pray to their god or die. >There is no middle ground. Women can not drive, can be raped, are > married into servitude and on and on. Eh, parts of our bible say the same thing, and some lunatics actually believe it. Doesn't mean that christianity must be defeated or that we want all muslims dead. One big difference is there are numerous Islamic societies that embrace these "barbaric" practices, whereas, I don't think there are any Christian ones. Oh, is that right? No Christian ones????? "I am sick of this life. I dont want to live another 10 days in this life" -Reverend Jim Jones, Jonestown, prior to the slaying of over 900 members of his congregation, mostly with forced injestion of sodium cyanide. Was Reverend Jim Jones a Muslim? No, he wasnt. He was a Christian. Do you consider the blatant murder of over 900 people, 300 or which were children, to be barbaric? Youre right, Christians dont embrace 'those' barbaric methods, they have a completely different set of ones. One of which currently entails fighting an illegal war of aggression in Iraq and the deaths of over 3000 US military, not to mention countless other civilian deaths. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #125 January 26, 2007 Dont forget Koresh..... they shot a bunch of the members as they set the fires...Adn all the children died there too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
