JohnRich 4 #1 January 25, 2007 Update from England: It would seem that despite England's 1997 gun confiscation, gun crime still continues to rise... Recent news stories: Quote: "...new figures show a sharp rise in armed robberies - a 10% jump - including a 9% rise in the number of street robberies where guns were used. There was also a rapid increase in the number of times householders were confronted in their own homes by armed criminals. Residential firearms robberies show a 46% leap..." Source: Breitbart Quote: "Robberies in England and Wales rose by 11% between July and September last year, with overall violent crime up 4%..." Source: BBC Quote: "Escalating gun crime in Yorkshire... Gun crime has quadrupled since 1981..." Source: BBC Quote: "...the risk of crime have increased according to the British Crime Survey (BCS)... The survey is widely accepted as the most authoritative and reliable... the risk of crime increased by one per cent from the previous figures to 24 per cent." Source: Manchester.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willard 0 #2 January 25, 2007 I told 'em it wouldn't work unless they went all the way and banned pictures of guns also. While they're at it, just to be safe, they best ban thoughts of guns and use of the word "gun". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #3 January 26, 2007 Quote I told 'em it wouldn't work unless they went all the way and banned pictures of guns also. While they're at it, just to be safe, they best ban thoughts of guns and use of the word "gun". They're working their way towards that. For now, they're concentrating on replica (toy) guns and air guns. They'll come for the thought crime later... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #4 January 26, 2007 It would seem that despite England's 1997 gun confiscation, gun crime still continues to rise... *** Man...... its a good thing they confiscated all those guns from the legal, law abiding citizens... if they hadnt ...... imagine all those dead fucking criminals.... oh... the tragedy of that stupid fucking politicians and the sheep that follow them RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willard 0 #5 January 26, 2007 Quote ...... imagine all those dead fucking criminals.... oh... the tragedy of that But...but...but...those criminals were only raping and murdering, it wasn't like they were doing anything wrong. Besides, to shoot them during the act, even in self defense, before they got a fair trial would be sooooo against their rights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #6 January 26, 2007 Quote It would seem that despite England's 1997 gun confiscation, gun crime still continues to rise... *** Man...... its a good thing they confiscated all those guns from the legal, law abiding citizens... if they hadnt ...... imagine all those dead fucking criminals.... oh... the tragedy of that stupid fucking politicians and the sheep that follow them Roy So how do you account for the rise in violent crime in the USA over the last 18 months? www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel06/prelim2005061206.htm www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-08-30-violent-crimes_x.htm?csp=34... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #7 January 26, 2007 So how do you account for the rise in violent crime in the USA over the last 18 months? *** my whole point was to merely point out.... we shoot back here, kick my door in and you will probably not see tomorrow. the assholes over there took that right away from the law abiding citizens.. and the fucking sheep allowed it. RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willard 0 #8 January 26, 2007 Quote So how do you account for the rise in violent crime in the USA over the last 18 months? *** my whole point was to merely point out.... we shoot back here, kick my door in and you will probably not see tomorrow. the assholes over there took that right away from the law abiding citizens.. and the fucking sheep allowed it. Roy Same here. Where I grew up the law was at least 30 minutes away, usually closer to an hour. You learn real quick that your safety is your own responsibility and not to count on someone else to save your butt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeterB 0 #9 January 26, 2007 Kallend is using the same argument as Johnrich. The philosophical implications aside, John says banning gun leads to more gun crime. Kallend says having gun leads to gun crime. Both have some data to support their view. If it comes to a surprise to anyone that there's a shitload of *other variables* in place it's kinda sad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #10 January 26, 2007 Quote Kallend is using the same argument as Johnrich. The philosophical implications aside, John says banning gun leads to more gun crime. Kallend says having gun leads to gun crime. The difference being one is a ten year trend, and the other is not. (the hidden detail being that the long growth of one still only gets up to a small level) Nonetheless, that a country that was nearly gunless to start with is going the wrong way suggests what would happen here with a similar ban attempt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #11 January 26, 2007 Quote Kallend is using the same argument as Johnrich. The philosophical implications aside, John says banning gun leads to more gun crime. Kallend says having gun leads to gun crime. Sort of...I think John was saying that even banning guns will not stop gun crime. Didn't work in England, will not work in the US. Kallend just pointed out that a country without a gun ban also has gun crime. My thoughts are that: 1. It is in the 2nd that we can have guns. For me, that is enough. 2. Gun crime is going to happen. Just look at the fact England banned them and they have increasing gun crime. As a tool of violence, a gun works so criminals will use them. In a state where guns are illegal, the law abiding citizens will be put at a disadvantage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nick 0 #12 January 26, 2007 Further update from England Looks like some gun crime may be rising, but overall it's not that bad... Also from the same linked documents: Quote: "Firearm offences have fallen significantly, by 14% in the year up to September 2006, which amounts to 1,642 fewer incidents." Source: Breitbart http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/paFiguresThurs18Crimefiguresud2Substitute.html Quote: "Interviews for the BCS for the year to the end of September indicate overall crime dropped by 2%, and violent crime was 5% lower." Source: BBChttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4648042.stm Quote: "However the Recorded Crime Statistics (RCS), also published today, reported that although overall crime was down by three per cent, drug offences increased by nine per cent." Source: Manchester.comhttp://www.manchester.com/National_News/Crime_on_the_rise,_says_survey-18042962.html Nick Gravity- It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #13 January 26, 2007 I'm glad things are a better than they seem at first blush for y'all... hopefully the trends will continue to improve.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #14 January 26, 2007 See now you've gone and read the articles and applied reason and logic - that's just not fair!!! Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nick 0 #15 January 26, 2007 Perhaps we should ask JohnRich to stand for PM and legalise guns so we can save ourselves from each other. I mean, I just don't feel safe anymore..... Nick Gravity- It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piper17 1 #16 January 26, 2007 There are bad people in the UK and in the USA (the entire world, for that matter) who will get guns one way or the other and commit violent crimes with them. Criminals, by definition, break laws. At least here, we can shoot back. Another problem we have here (and in the UK) is the number of illegal aliens (lawbreakers by definition) committing violent crimes. Check out the stats in CA, especially the LA area regarding illegal aliens committing crimes."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nick 0 #17 January 26, 2007 Yes you can shoot back, but the more guns you have around the easier it is for one of these "bad" people to get a gun, the more chance there is that somebody will get shot and killed, think that pretty easy logic to follow!!! Don't know what it is with you americans (some of you at least) thinking you can tell the rest of the world what you can do, each time you've gone into a country to try and "help" you've right royally fucked it up. Our society it very different over here and i'd be very surprised if all of what works over there works over here. I have a scary beleif that it's idiots in this country trying to copy you guys over there that cause a decent amount of our crime. Nick Gravity- It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #18 January 26, 2007 Quote Yes you can shoot back, but the more guns you have around the easier it is for one of these "bad" people to get a gun, the more chance there is that somebody will get shot and killed, think that pretty easy logic to follow!!! Yes it is... and the fact that you've effectively DISARMED the law-abiding folks that the criminals will be preying on is easy logic to follow, as well. I know it's a case of different cultures - I wish you luck with it and hope that it works for you. Quote Don't know what it is with you americans (some of you at least) thinking you can tell the rest of the world what you can do, each time you've gone into a country to try and "help" you've right royally fucked it up. Sort of like you saying 'who are you to tell anyone what to do?', eh? Quote Our society it very different over here and i'd be very surprised if all of what works over there works over here. I have a scary beleif that it's idiots in this country trying to copy you guys over there that cause a decent amount of our crime. Yup..both countries have spent the last 15+ years (at least) glorifying the bad guys... and now we're reaping what we've sown..Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #19 January 26, 2007 Quote Update from England: It would seem that despite England's 1997 gun confiscation, gun crime still continues to rise... Recent news stories: Quote: "...new figures show a sharp rise in armed robberies - a 10% jump - including a 9% rise in the number of street robberies where guns were used. There was also a rapid increase in the number of times householders were confronted in their own homes by armed criminals. Residential firearms robberies show a 46% leap..." Source: Breitbart Quote: "Robberies in England and Wales rose by 11% between July and September last year, with overall violent crime up 4%..." Source: BBC Quote: "Escalating gun crime in Yorkshire... Gun crime has quadrupled since 1981..." Source: BBC Quote: "...the risk of crime have increased according to the British Crime Survey (BCS)... The survey is widely accepted as the most authoritative and reliable... the risk of crime increased by one per cent from the previous figures to 24 per cent." Source: Manchester.com I don't really see the point of your post John. Have you any statistics showing gun crime in the UK would be less if people were allowed to own handguns? Obviously not - so I'm concluding you're indulging in your little obsession again. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #20 January 26, 2007 Quote Don't know what it is with you americans (some of you at least) thinking you can tell the rest of the world what you can do, each time you've gone into a country to try and "help" you've right royally fucked it up. I'm pretty sure that Kuwait is better off than it was prior to our intervention. It's still a fucked up country, but they seem to like it that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nick 0 #21 January 26, 2007 Quote Yes it is... and the fact that you've effectively DISARMED the law-abiding folks that the criminals will be preying on is easy logic to follow, as well I've always taken the view the prevention is better than cure, therefore if prevent the "bad guys" from getting the guns Quote Sort of like you saying 'who are you to tell anyone what to do?', eh? Yes exactly, I know that in the past England has had it's fuck ups, I like to think that we've learnt from that and moved on (other than the shit Tony Blair gets us into). Quote Yup..both countries have spent the last 15+ years (at least) glorifying the bad guys... and now we're reaping what we've sown.. Agree totally. Nick Gravity- It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nick 0 #22 January 26, 2007 Quote I'm pretty sure that Kuwait is better off than it was prior to our intervention. It's still a fucked up country, but they seem to like it that way. And Iraq and Afganistan are a really nice places to live!!!!! Nick Gravity- It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #23 January 26, 2007 Quote Kallend is using the same argument as Johnrich. The philosophical implications aside, John says banning gun leads to more gun crime... Incorrect. My position is that banning guns does nothing to prevent gun crime. There is a difference. I'm not saying that a ban encourages more, just that it does nothing to stop it. Gun crime occurs completely independent of, and despite, gun laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #24 January 26, 2007 Quote Have you any statistics showing gun crime in the UK would be less if people were allowed to own handguns? It would have gone up even if the gun ban had not been enacted. And given that the history of gun control is a history of failure to achieve the desired results, then I would prefer that the citizens be allowed to keep their gun rights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #25 January 26, 2007 If the gun ban had no +ve or -ve affect on gun crime, but it almost certainly put guns out of the way of almost everyone (criminals excluded) so the chance of accidents from privately owned guns must have gone away, So on balance the ban would appear to be +ve. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
