kallend 2,026
billvon 2,989
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>As far as I can remember, they had some measurements of 'arousal'
> but were unable to say whether it was an erotic arousal . . .
It was physical arousal. They measured the guy's erections via penile plethysmography; in its simplest form it is a strain gauge around the guy's penis. One might argue that anxiety might cause an erection, but the normal fight-or-flight fear reaction usually has the opposite effect. So while you might validly question whether the study showed that homophobes were more often sexually attracted to males, it did show that they experienced sexual arousal (i.e. erection) more often than the non-homphobes did when presented with depictions of homosexual pornography.
> but were unable to say whether it was an erotic arousal . . .
It was physical arousal. They measured the guy's erections via penile plethysmography; in its simplest form it is a strain gauge around the guy's penis. One might argue that anxiety might cause an erection, but the normal fight-or-flight fear reaction usually has the opposite effect. So while you might validly question whether the study showed that homophobes were more often sexually attracted to males, it did show that they experienced sexual arousal (i.e. erection) more often than the non-homphobes did when presented with depictions of homosexual pornography.
PeterB 0
QuoteQuoteAs far as I can remember, they had some measurements of 'arousal' but were unable to say whether it was an erotic arousal or a response to seeing something the subjects felt were repulsive or disagreed about (anxeity). Something along the line of both giving the same ruslts.
Just anecdotally, does your weenie grow big when you're disgusted?
I don't know. I don't have the equipment to measure.- What the researchers said (and I don't speak for them, just regurgitating their words) were that anxiety could produce the same result on the instrument used which then lead to disagreement amongst researchers as to what to conclude from the tests.
They could be full of shit or they could be right. Whether A or B it'd be intellectually dishonest to not present the disagreement.
Billvon, this type of instrument will record even very small changes - i.e a full blown erection is not necessary. A very small but measurable change is enough.
I'll quote the authors on this issue:
'anxiety has been shown to enhance arousal and erection,' and so it is also possible that 'a response to homosexual stimuli [in these men] is a function of the threat condition rather than sexual arousal per se. These competing notions can and should be evaluated by future research.'
What the authors are saying is that the experiment requires further verification and studies to rule out the anxiety bit. That's all I'm saying.
sundevil777 102
One of the problems with the latent homosexuality study was the way they determine homophobia. The index of homophobia test that was used by the researchers has a bunch of questions having nothing to do with whether a person has an irrational fear of them. Crappy test, worthless result.
Earlier thread on this subject:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2503860;search_string=homophobia;#2503860
Earlier thread on this subject:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2503860;search_string=homophobia;#2503860
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
QuoteOne of the problems with the latent homosexuality study was the way they determine homophobia. The index of homophobia test that was used by the researchers has a bunch of questions having nothing to do with whether a person has an irrational fear of them. Crappy test, worthless result.
I'm endlessly amused by people who rigidly preach the etymological origin of "homophobia" rather than the current, common usage.
It's as if they think by proclaiming English speakers are incompetant, they can make everyone forget what they were talking about.
"Lay off the haters of homosexuals! Your word is poorly constructed by historical standards so the whole notion you're referring to is off limits. Stop discussing the idea!"
First Class Citizen Twice Over
sundevil777 102
QuoteI'm endlessly amused by people who rigidly preach the etymological origin of "homophobia" rather than the current, common usage.
I know what a phobia is because I have one. If I see or imagine certain images involving blood, drawing blood, etc. I get cold/clammy/faint very quickly. It is weird because sometimes I've been able to watch real heart surgery on TV with no problem, but the only time I tried to donate blood I nearly passed out while lying down. Funny thing, that fear is called hemophobia.
I think the definition of words is important. So did Bill Clinton.
What do you think is (or should be/or what is now) the definition of homophobia?
I think that the 'current common usage' is worth complaining about because the average person won't support the positions of a person/group that has an irrational fear of homosexuals. A person with such an irrational fear is worthy of ridicule/scorn/etc.
Anyone that doesn't agree with what gay rights group advocates want is labeled a 'phobe. I think that is clearly wrong.
Quote"Lay off the haters of homosexuals! Your word is poorly constructed by historical standards so the whole notion you're referring to is off limits. Stop discussing the idea!"
I've done nothing of the sort. Just bringing to light the intentional misuse of a word to get an intended response. Can't the issue be discussed without the misuse of the suffix 'phobe?
Clearly, there are those who call themselves Christians that hate homosexuals. I assert that number is tiny compared to those that call themselves Muslims that hate homosexuals. Is that religion attacked by gay rights advocates?
A person that doesn't support what gay rights advocates want is no more a homophobe than you are a conservativephobe. There are many people that hate conservatives, but don't have an irrational fear of them - I would think that some application of the suffix "-ist" would be appropriate.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
billvon 2,989
>was the way they determine homophobia.
They define it as "stimuli that produces unfounded anxiety." It's something of a shorthand. It would be more awkward to say "a study of people who experience conscious fear, anxiety, anger, discomfort, and/or aversion towards homosexuals vs their physical arousal by homosexual material" although perhaps that would be more accurate.
They define it as "stimuli that produces unfounded anxiety." It's something of a shorthand. It would be more awkward to say "a study of people who experience conscious fear, anxiety, anger, discomfort, and/or aversion towards homosexuals vs their physical arousal by homosexual material" although perhaps that would be more accurate.
sundevil777 102
Quote>was the way they determine homophobia.
They define it as "stimuli that produces unfounded anxiety." It's something of a shorthand. It would be more awkward to say "a study of people who experience conscious fear, anxiety, anger, discomfort, and/or aversion towards homosexuals vs their physical arousal by homosexual material" although perhaps that would be more accurate.
That sounds like it is a reasonable position, but the actual questions they use to determine homophobia were crap, in my opinion.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
That's fuckin hilarious! That guy is definitely, without a doubt, completely flamin. Ok, so I guess he hates himself. And god hates him too... Especially now that he wasted a whole two minutes of gods time. lol
Gravity Waits for No One.
jakee 1,489
QuoteI'm endlessly amused by people who rigidly preach the etymological origin of "homophobia" rather than the current, common usage.
I hate it when people call me Xenophobic. I aint afraid of no freakin Greek paradox!
Bad jokes aside though, I think that alot of people that might be thought of as "moderate" homophobics (ie. don't like gays in principle but wouldn't go round beating them up) actually do exhibit some fear of what will happen if homosexuality becomes accepted.
A quick trawl through these forums will reveal people opposed to gay marriage because they are afraid it will change the definition of their own marriage, people opposed to mentioning homosexuality in sex ed because they're afraid their kids will turn gay if they hear about it, people opposed to gays in the military because they are afraid they might be hit on etc.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
jakee 1,489
QuoteClearly, there are those who call themselves Christians that hate homosexuals. I assert that number is tiny compared to those that call themselves Muslims that hate homosexuals. Is that religion attacked by gay rights advocates?
When someone mentions gay rights how loudly do those muslims shout "No"? I'll tell you one thing, that tiny number of Christians shouts pretty fuckin' loudly.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
sundevil777 102
QuoteQuoteClearly, there are those who call themselves Christians that hate homosexuals. I assert that number is tiny compared to those that call themselves Muslims that hate homosexuals. Is that religion attacked by gay rights advocates?
When someone mentions gay rights how loudly do those muslims shout "No"? I'll tell you one thing, that tiny number of Christians shouts pretty fuckin' loudly.
In some places where Muslims are in control (Islamic republics) they don't bother arguing about the politics of it, they just imprison/kill them. Muslims in this country know they aren't so popular with mainstream America, so they keep their opinion to themselves, for now.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
QuoteMuslims in this country know they aren't so popular with mainstream America, so they keep their opinion to themselves, for now.
In the US (and those other minor little places like Canada, Europe, Central America, Australia, etc...) christians are 99% of the homophobia problem and muslims are the remainder.
Does that answer your question why islam isn't "attacked" in the western world as much as christianity?
Did I really let you goad me into using the word "attacked"??? *sigh*...
First Class Citizen Twice Over
sundevil777 102
QuoteQuoteMuslims in this country know they aren't so popular with mainstream America, so they keep their opinion to themselves, for now.
In the US (and those other minor little places like Canada, Europe, Central America, Australia, etc...) christians are 99% of the homophobia problem and muslims are the remainder.
Does that answer your question why islam isn't "attacked" in the western world as much as christianity?
Did I really let you goad me into using the word "attacked"??? *sigh*...
You have left out certain parts of the world, such as the Arab world. I guess the homosexuals of the Arab world cannot look to the advocacy groups of the free world for any support. Perhaps you think the Arab world is "minor" as you say, not deserving of any concern.
Do you at least acknowledge that they are routinely killed there, with full knowledge of the authorities? I would think that is much more important than marriage rights.
Also, I'd still like to hear your thoughts on why I shouldn't consider you to be a conservativephobe.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
QuoteYou have left out certain parts of the world, such as the Arab world. I guess the homosexuals of the Arab world cannot look to the advocacy groups of the free world for any support. Perhaps you think the Arab world is "minor" as you say, not deserving of any concern.
Do you at least acknowledge that they are routinely killed there, with full knowledge of the authorities? I would think that is much more important than marriage rights.
Since I don't live in those places, and since I believe the news that filters down to me is horribly twisted by people with axes to grind, I believe that I know next to nothing about the arab world.
However, it's entirely possible you're right. If so, that really sucks for them.
Why again did you bring up this non-sequitur?
First Class Citizen Twice Over
QuoteAlso, I'd still like to hear your thoughts on why I shouldn't consider you to be a conservativephobe.
I'm not a conservativephobe. What I am is a hypocritophobe. I'm an idiotophobe. I'm a bigotophobe.
Why has this conversation turned to my personality?
First Class Citizen Twice Over
rehmwa 2
QuoteI'm a bigotophobe
what's an otophobe, and why is it especially important to you?
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Quotewhat's an otophobe, and why is it especially important to you?
Read up on Ordo Templi Orientis and you'll see why it's so scary!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordo_Templi_Orientis
First Class Citizen Twice Over
rehmwa 2
QuoteQuotewhat's an otophobe, and why is it especially important to you?
Read up on Ordo Templi Orientis and you'll see why it's so scary!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordo_Templi_Orientis
I agree, the big otophobes are scary and not nice at all.
the small otophobes are just annoying.
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
QuoteI agree, the big otophobes are scary and not nice at all.
Wait a second! Are you saying you're a bigotophobeophobe?
First Class Citizen Twice Over
rehmwa 2
QuoteQuoteI agree, the big otophobes are scary and not nice at all.
Wait a second! Are you saying you're a bigotophobeophobe?
ah HA, if that means I'm scare of big otos, but not small otos, you bet.
(actually, I want to see if we're inadvertantly getting into trouble, so I looked up "oto" and got this:
O·to (ō'tō) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. Oto or O·tos
A Native American people formerly inhabiting eastern Nebraska along the Platte River, with present-day descendants living with the Missouri in north-central Oklahoma.
A member of this people.
The Siouan language of the Oto, dialectally related to Iowa.
In the interest of avoiding either or both of us being called nativeamerican-ophobes by reactionary speaker's corner posters, I recommend we quietly walk away....
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
few Christians ever actually speak out against the extremists in their fold.. where is the 'rightious' Christian outcry against Pat Robertson? yet many expect that Islam is beholden to Publicly oust its extremists while they fail to do the same themselves...
it would seem necessary to clean ones own 'house' first...
I think the appropriate metaphor is to cast the beam out of your own eye before worrying about the mote in your brother's eye. Something that many Christians fail at with remarkable consistency.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.