kallend 2,032 #76 February 6, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Just to put the figures in perspective: There are around NINE TIMES as many cervical cancer deaths each year in the US as there were measles deaths per year for the preceding four years prior to the introduction of measles vaccination. How about a cite? Measles killed an average of 423/year just before the vaccine was introduced according to the US CDC www.cdc.gov/mmwR/preview/mmwrhtml/00056803.htm Fixed it for you. The mortality rate for much of the first part of the 20th Centry was FIFTY TIMES HIGHER than that of the four year period you used to represent as "prior to the introduction" of the vaccination. Nice cherry-picking. Truly Pathetic! Unlike you, I'm comparing apples with apples - the mortality rate the year before the vaccine was introduced as I CLEARLY stated. I'm sure if you go back to the 14th Century you can find even more dreadful measles mortality rates but they are not relevant in the slightest to the situation with measles in 1963 or with HPV in 2007. Do you really think that improved measles treatments in the 1950s made the 1963 introduction of measles vaccination unnecessary?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #77 February 6, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Just to put the figures in perspective: There are around NINE TIMES as many cervical cancer deaths each year in the US as there were measles deaths per year for the preceding four years prior to the introduction of measles vaccination. How about a cite? Measles killed an average of 423/year just before the vaccine was introduced according to the US CDC www.cdc.gov/mmwR/preview/mmwrhtml/00056803.htm Fixed it for you. The mortality rate for much of the first part of the 20th Centry was FIFTY TIMES HIGHER than that of the four year period you used to represent as "prior to the introduction" of the vaccination. Nice cherry-picking. Truly Pathetic! Tsk, tsk. Temper, temper. QuoteUnlike you, I'm comparing apples with apples - the mortality rate the year before the vaccine was introduced as I CLEARLY stated. Yeah, you picked the lowest four years of the century to make a blanket statement. Some might call your statement a "lie - by omission". QuoteDo you really think that improved measles treatments in the 1950s made the 1963 introduction of measles vaccination unnecessary? Absolutely not. Before 1963, there were approximately 3 to 4 million cases per year in addition to the mortality numbers. There were also epidemic cycles every 2 to 3 years. While American's had made huge strides in eliminating the mortality rate, approximately 2 percent of Americans had to suffer through this rather nasty virus every year. In other words, the measles vaccination directly effected everyl American who had not had the measles. Now let's contrast this to one in 25,000 women. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,461 #78 February 6, 2007 QuoteSomehow I can't imagine Wendy wagging her "massive pseudo-intellectual penis" at anyone. That's because it's a REAL intellectual penis -- gender equality means that WE get little heads to think with too Just go read the story about the astronaut Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,032 #79 February 6, 2007 Quote You needn't lecture me on the unpleasantness of measles - I had it as a child. You appear to dismiss the very very nasty symptoms and treatments suffered by those women who contract CC but do not die as irrelevant, but you are so concerned about measles symptoms. You make a great fuss about measles fatalities declining prior to the 1960s, but ignore the decline in CC rates due to improved detection and treatment. Your real objection here is revealed by your "nanny state" and premarital sex comments earlier on in this thread and you are just trying to rationalize it. Typical right winger.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #80 February 6, 2007 Careful there, Kallend. Keep it up and you'll surely drop your transmission. Nice one on the "typical right winger" jab. Your true colors are showing. And the personal aspect was sooooo touching. I had the measles, the mumps and chicken pox. So did all my classmates. Big Whoop. Cry me a fucking river. Wah, wah, wah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,032 #81 February 6, 2007 Quote I had the measles, the mumps and chicken pox. So did all my classmates. Big Whoop. Cry me a fucking river. Wah, wah, wah I'm sure it was far more unpleasant than getting cervical cancer.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #82 February 7, 2007 We've had 30 years or so of cheap pap smears being available and not universally used (for whatever reason). How can we change that to their being used when we haven't succeeded in the past? We haven't succeeded in having all women follow through with regular pap smears, but we have succeeded in decreasing the mortality rates from cervical cancer dramatically. what would be a good response, given that we have a significant number of deaths across the country from cervical cancer, and that we now have a vaccine that, with wide application, will very likely make those numbers smaller. I think that we're headed in the right direction. We have the vaccine available, so I'd think it'd be a good idea to vaccinate women who choose to be vaccinated. I think it'd be a good idea to get a little time behind us with this vaccine before making it a mandatory vaccine for all teenaged girls in the school systems. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,461 #83 February 7, 2007 Having the state sponsor it (so that it's free) would probably go a long way. Having it be suggested along with other vaccinations would also help, and it wouldn't then be mandated. But it would start with its being inexpensive or free, or else it'll be another way that rich people have advantages over poor people. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #84 February 7, 2007 I agree that it's something that everyone should have access to. It's an expensive set of vaccinations, and now that we have it, I don't think people should be denied access to it. I'd go a step further and say that a teenaged girl should be able to have access to this without first having her parents' permission. Family planning and other sexual issues are already handled that way. That's very different from mandating it for girls...which I don't think is good for the reasons I've listed before.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #85 February 7, 2007 QuoteI'd personally rather teach my daughter (if I had one) to keep herself safe rather than vaccinate her against an STD. I have a daughter, and I'd rather do both. If I had a son, I'd want the girls he sleeps with to be vaccinated as well. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #86 February 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteI'd personally rather teach my daughter (if I had one) to keep herself safe rather than vaccinate her against an STD. I have a daughter, and I'd rather do both. If I had a son, I'd want the girls he sleeps with to be vaccinated as well. Blues, Dave And that's the beauty of having a choice in the matter. As parents, we could each handle the same issue as we think is best.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #87 February 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI'd personally rather teach my daughter (if I had one) to keep herself safe rather than vaccinate her against an STD. I have a daughter, and I'd rather do both. If I had a son, I'd want the girls he sleeps with to be vaccinated as well. And that's the beauty of having a choice in the matter. As parents, we could each handle the same issue as we think is best. Just out of curiousity, how would you instruct a daughter keep herself safe with regard to HPV, given there's no test for men without visible warts and condoms aren't especially effective? There's a reason the manufacturers didn't bother getting this vaccine approved for women older than 26. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites narcimund 0 #88 February 7, 2007 QuoteJust out of curiousity, how would you instruct a daughter keep herself safe with regard to HPV Can women get it from lesbian sex? In not, that might be the best thing to teach them. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #89 February 8, 2007 Just out of curiousity, how would you instruct a daughter keep herself safe with regard to HPV, given there's no test for men without visible warts and condoms aren't especially effective? There's a reason the manufacturers didn't bother getting this vaccine approved for women older than 26. Well, first of all, the strains of HPV that cause cervical cancer are not the same ones that cause warts. You can't see the HPV that causes cancer. Second, condoms are pretty effective, but not perfectly effective. I'd suggest to my daughter that when she decides to have sex that she use a condom. Despite that, the day will come when she has unprotected sex....hopefully she'd be in a monogamous relationship by then, but monogamy doesn't keep one from getting HPV. I'd get her in a habit of getting yearly gynecologic exams. I'd do my best to keep the lines of communication open. I wouldn't keep her from getting the vaccination if it's something she wanted.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #90 February 8, 2007 QuoteJust out of curiousity, how would you instruct a daughter keep herself safe with regard to HPV, given there's no test for men without visible warts and condoms aren't especially effective? There's a reason the manufacturers didn't bother getting this vaccine approved for women older than 26. Well, first of all, the strains of HPV that cause cervical cancer are not the same ones that cause warts. You can't see the HPV that causes cancer. Second, condoms are pretty effective, but not perfectly effective. I'd suggest to my daughter that when she decides to have sex that she use a condom. Despite that, the day will come when she has unprotected sex....hopefully she'd be in a monogamous relationship by then, but monogamy doesn't keep one from getting HPV. I'd get her in a habit of getting yearly gynecologic exams. I'd do my best to keep the lines of communication open. I wouldn't keep her from getting the vaccination if it's something she wanted. Sounds like you and I are in almost perfect agreement then . The only difference I see is minor...you would allow the vaccination and I would encourage it. Also, I'm pretty sure I read that this vaccine is pretty effective at preventing the primary strains that cause warts, and it was simply a marketing decision to not sell that point (a vaccine against cancer being easier to sell than a vaccine against warts). Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
NCclimber 0 #80 February 6, 2007 Careful there, Kallend. Keep it up and you'll surely drop your transmission. Nice one on the "typical right winger" jab. Your true colors are showing. And the personal aspect was sooooo touching. I had the measles, the mumps and chicken pox. So did all my classmates. Big Whoop. Cry me a fucking river. Wah, wah, wah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,032 #81 February 6, 2007 Quote I had the measles, the mumps and chicken pox. So did all my classmates. Big Whoop. Cry me a fucking river. Wah, wah, wah I'm sure it was far more unpleasant than getting cervical cancer.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #82 February 7, 2007 We've had 30 years or so of cheap pap smears being available and not universally used (for whatever reason). How can we change that to their being used when we haven't succeeded in the past? We haven't succeeded in having all women follow through with regular pap smears, but we have succeeded in decreasing the mortality rates from cervical cancer dramatically. what would be a good response, given that we have a significant number of deaths across the country from cervical cancer, and that we now have a vaccine that, with wide application, will very likely make those numbers smaller. I think that we're headed in the right direction. We have the vaccine available, so I'd think it'd be a good idea to vaccinate women who choose to be vaccinated. I think it'd be a good idea to get a little time behind us with this vaccine before making it a mandatory vaccine for all teenaged girls in the school systems. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,461 #83 February 7, 2007 Having the state sponsor it (so that it's free) would probably go a long way. Having it be suggested along with other vaccinations would also help, and it wouldn't then be mandated. But it would start with its being inexpensive or free, or else it'll be another way that rich people have advantages over poor people. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #84 February 7, 2007 I agree that it's something that everyone should have access to. It's an expensive set of vaccinations, and now that we have it, I don't think people should be denied access to it. I'd go a step further and say that a teenaged girl should be able to have access to this without first having her parents' permission. Family planning and other sexual issues are already handled that way. That's very different from mandating it for girls...which I don't think is good for the reasons I've listed before.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #85 February 7, 2007 QuoteI'd personally rather teach my daughter (if I had one) to keep herself safe rather than vaccinate her against an STD. I have a daughter, and I'd rather do both. If I had a son, I'd want the girls he sleeps with to be vaccinated as well. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #86 February 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteI'd personally rather teach my daughter (if I had one) to keep herself safe rather than vaccinate her against an STD. I have a daughter, and I'd rather do both. If I had a son, I'd want the girls he sleeps with to be vaccinated as well. Blues, Dave And that's the beauty of having a choice in the matter. As parents, we could each handle the same issue as we think is best.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #87 February 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI'd personally rather teach my daughter (if I had one) to keep herself safe rather than vaccinate her against an STD. I have a daughter, and I'd rather do both. If I had a son, I'd want the girls he sleeps with to be vaccinated as well. And that's the beauty of having a choice in the matter. As parents, we could each handle the same issue as we think is best. Just out of curiousity, how would you instruct a daughter keep herself safe with regard to HPV, given there's no test for men without visible warts and condoms aren't especially effective? There's a reason the manufacturers didn't bother getting this vaccine approved for women older than 26. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #88 February 7, 2007 QuoteJust out of curiousity, how would you instruct a daughter keep herself safe with regard to HPV Can women get it from lesbian sex? In not, that might be the best thing to teach them. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #89 February 8, 2007 Just out of curiousity, how would you instruct a daughter keep herself safe with regard to HPV, given there's no test for men without visible warts and condoms aren't especially effective? There's a reason the manufacturers didn't bother getting this vaccine approved for women older than 26. Well, first of all, the strains of HPV that cause cervical cancer are not the same ones that cause warts. You can't see the HPV that causes cancer. Second, condoms are pretty effective, but not perfectly effective. I'd suggest to my daughter that when she decides to have sex that she use a condom. Despite that, the day will come when she has unprotected sex....hopefully she'd be in a monogamous relationship by then, but monogamy doesn't keep one from getting HPV. I'd get her in a habit of getting yearly gynecologic exams. I'd do my best to keep the lines of communication open. I wouldn't keep her from getting the vaccination if it's something she wanted.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #90 February 8, 2007 QuoteJust out of curiousity, how would you instruct a daughter keep herself safe with regard to HPV, given there's no test for men without visible warts and condoms aren't especially effective? There's a reason the manufacturers didn't bother getting this vaccine approved for women older than 26. Well, first of all, the strains of HPV that cause cervical cancer are not the same ones that cause warts. You can't see the HPV that causes cancer. Second, condoms are pretty effective, but not perfectly effective. I'd suggest to my daughter that when she decides to have sex that she use a condom. Despite that, the day will come when she has unprotected sex....hopefully she'd be in a monogamous relationship by then, but monogamy doesn't keep one from getting HPV. I'd get her in a habit of getting yearly gynecologic exams. I'd do my best to keep the lines of communication open. I wouldn't keep her from getting the vaccination if it's something she wanted. Sounds like you and I are in almost perfect agreement then . The only difference I see is minor...you would allow the vaccination and I would encourage it. Also, I'm pretty sure I read that this vaccine is pretty effective at preventing the primary strains that cause warts, and it was simply a marketing decision to not sell that point (a vaccine against cancer being easier to sell than a vaccine against warts). Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
