*REPUBLICANS* Who is YOUR 2008 Presidential Candidate?

[rehmwa 2]

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>And if it sank Dukakis, it's going to sink Huckabee, who's starting from a weaker position.

weaker than Dukakis - OUCH! That's like saying you food is worse than Arby's

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[LuvToFly 0]

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I agree with some of Huckabee's positions, but unfortunately I think he's sunk. Turns out he has a Willie Horton in his past who's worse than even Willie Horton. And if it sank Dukakis, it's going to sink Huckabee, who's starting from a weaker position.

Not even close -

The convict in question re: Huckabee (Dumond) went through the parole system and all due process, with the prescribed checks and balances. Some are concerned about what Huckabee's views were, but the convict went through the established system for determination of candidacy for release.

Contrasting that to the case of Willie Horton: He was released from jail for a weekend furlough - during which time he comitted crimes. This was not a person for whom it was determined he was safe to return to society by due process.

As far as "sinking" don't think that's going to be the case, and there are reasons for that:

The case of Dukakis's ill-fated campaign could not be compared with Huckabee on many important levels - levels from which Huckabee's support rises from:

Dukakis had no particularly original agenda. But he did have lots of positions that did not agree with the voting public:

- Stated that he was a "card carrying member of the ACLU"
- Seen as being soft on defense
- Opposed capital punishment

These positions made him unpopular on a number of fronts as they weren't former positions, but current ones.

Huckabee is a minister who supports capital punishment and does not have a record of being soft on crime. But he's also agressive towards corporate board-room greed and the fair tax. While one may argue whether the inherent goals could be achieved, the supporters of Huckabee believe him to be a good man with vision - whereas Dukakis was viewed as - well - a dullard.

However, besides the Willie Horton issue and his positions, the main nail in Dukakis's prospects was that people did not like him. They found him somber, unconvincing and utterly unenthusiast - even about positions that he should be. They did not like his personality (am old enough to remember seeing him campaigning - so boring)

One of Huckabee's greatest strengths is that he is liked by many, is seen as enthusiastic about his vision for America, and knows how to connect with the public, and that has led to a broader base of support. In truth, Huckabee is not starting from a weaker position, but a much stronger one.

I do agree that people are much more fickle today than they were in '88 - so we'll have to wait and see what happens -

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[Shotgun 1]

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You put in newt gingrich who, isnt even running and left out mike huckabee?

This thread was started in February, when Gingrich was in the running. And perhaps Huckabee hadn't announced his intention to run at that time. (I don't know.)

[billvon 3,070]

>Contrasting that to the case of Willie Horton . . .

In Horton's case, his release was the result of policies Dukakis supported, but there was no _direct_ link between the two.

In Dumond's case, Huckabee was a strong advocate for his freedom, and corresponded with him directly. Before he was released, Huckabee wrote "Dear Wayne - My desire is that you be released from prison. I feel now that parole is the best way. . . ."

After his release, Huckabee wrote "I concur with the board’s action and hope the lives of all those involved can move forward. The action of the board accomplishes what I sought to do in considering an earlier request for commutation .."

It will be hard for Huckabee to disavow his relationship to Dumond after his strong advocacy for him. In a perfect world he'd say "wow, that was a major screwup on my part; won't happen again" and his opponents would say "OK, cool, let's move on."

But since we don't live in a perfect world, that won't happen (on either side.)

[livendive 8]

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Why is Fred Dalton Thompson excluded from the list?

This thread was started on February 4th.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[LuvToFly 0]

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In Dumond's case, Huckabee was a strong advocate for his freedom, and corresponded with him directly. Before he was released, Huckabee wrote "Dear Wayne - My desire is that you be released from prison. I feel now that parole is the best way. . . ."

After his release, Huckabee wrote "I concur with the board’s action and hope the lives of all those involved can move forward. The action of the board accomplishes what I sought to do in considering an earlier request for commutation .."

Yes, what you relayed above is exactly the point. Huckabee had been petitioned 4 times to commute Dumond's sentence - which was within his power, and refused each and every time. His letter of desiring him to be released by means of going through the parole process is the answer to that denied request for commutation. It is, to say, "no, I will not give you a free pass for your crimes - you must go through the process to prove yourself worthy to rejoin society like any other criminal by being subject to the scrutiny of the parole board."

Why would a person do such a thing who wanted him released from jail when a pardon would have been a click away?

It's completely apparent to anyone looking unbiasedly that he was insisting that Dumond go through the parole process, where there are checks and balances in place to review all the criteria under which a decision could be rendered within the process. Huckabee had the power to circumnavigate the process - and refused to use it - wanting Dumond to be tested under the scrutiny of the parole board to rejoin society.

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[billvon 3,070]

>Yes, what you relayed above is exactly the point.

Not arguing your point at all; you're right.

What will sink him is, simply, his expressed desire that a man who raped a 17 year old girl be released from prison. He was; he then raped and killed two more women. Not saying it's fair that that will sink him - it is perhaps a mistake any governor could have made. But it may be a fatal one in his case.

[SpeedRacer 1]

someone neeeds to make a new poll based on current candidates.

Primaries are starting in February or something

Speed Racer
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[kelpdiver 2]

I don't think Willie Horton by itself was so damaging to Dukakis. It was the soft on crime platform by a wimpy MA governor, who didn't fight back, that got him crushed. A Republican who didn't have most of these elements can slide by it, much the way Bill Clinton slid right past Jennifer Flowers.

[rushmc 23]

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someone neeeds to make a new poll based on current candidates.

Primaries are starting in February or something

First week in Jan

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

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First week in Jan The Iowa Caucus Jan 3rd

Gee does that actually count for anything???

[rushmc 23]

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First week in Jan The Iowa Caucus Jan 3rd

Gee does that actually count for anything???

Well, the canidates sure think so

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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First week in Jan The Iowa Caucus Jan 3rd

Gee does that actually count for anything???

with the very short election cycle, many think that Iowa will be more relevant than ever. Not sure I buy that, but quite a few qualified people do.

[SpeedRacer 1]

well then someone should start a revised poll, for the dems & the repubs before Jan 3rd then.

Speed Racer
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[asmund 0]

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For me there's really no contest. I'd have to write-in for Ronald Reagan.

RON PAUL!!!

Ron Paul was also supportive of Ronald Reagan, and he was a great fan back then.

Fact is I'll get deported if I vote, but if I could legally vote, it would be for Ron Paul. Just hope he gets rallied enough support before the primaries, or else his campaign will be over before it really has had a chance to begin.

I like subway.