chuteless 1 #51 February 9, 2007 You keep giving demonstrations of how little you know about the Bible. Your powers of observation are extremely shallow, as when you said that I had declared your Caifornia lady as Satan.....when what I said was she was posting her views which were done under Satanic influence. There is ample evidence that when God calls all nations to battle against Jerusalem, those nations will be defeated by God. Perhaps you should look it up and don't just read it, STUDY it carefully, and try to Spiritually understand what will happen to those who wish to fight against Israel. The antichrist ad the False Prophet will be defeated....you can count on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #52 February 9, 2007 The number 666 is NOT the identity of any man, such as you alude to in your post. This is a mistake brought about by the churches who do not understand God's WORD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #53 February 9, 2007 QuoteYour powers of observation are extremely shallow, as when you said that I had declared your Caifornia lady as Satan.....when what I said was she was posting her views which were done under Satanic influence. Actually what I remember observing about you is how you speak of others. You called Kris (someone who I would classify as one seeking) a "twit". That tells me all I need to know about you. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #54 February 9, 2007 QuoteI 100% most certainly do know the name of the anti-christ, Bill, I'm not a student of the Bible, and I never will be. There's no way I'll ever do even a smattering of the biblical research you recommend. Since you know the name, would you please just tell it to us plainly and directly? There's certainly no harm in doing so, especially since you don't let other people's reactions bother you. What's the person's name? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #55 February 9, 2007 QuoteWhat's the person's name? Yes-what is it? What is your reason for withholding it?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #56 February 9, 2007 I'm not sure why, but these last few posts have the feel of something out of Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail. It's Dave.... no Fred.... no Into the abyss with him. Aaaaarrrgggggg. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #57 February 9, 2007 I know, I know ... it's Bob Saget. What do I win?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #58 February 9, 2007 Well, Chuteless is disobeying the Biblical mandate to spread the word. Jesus did not say to keep things that will help others to ones' self.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #59 February 9, 2007 QuoteYou keep giving demonstrations of how little you know about the Bible. Perhaps. One thing I have learned during my studies ( I have a BS in Pastoral Ministries & Bible and MS in theology) is the more I learn about God, the more there seems to be I don't know. I have not figured it all out. I am the perenial student. With increased knowledge, God is becoming more complex. But maybe that is just me. I do have real issues with much of eschatology. Premillinialism implies that God did not speak to the early generations of Christians, only to this present one. I'm a firm believer that the biblical writer writes to his present generation. These truths have applications for everyone across cultures and time. To believe that John would write a letter to known churches in Asia Minor about facts that would only apply to churches (from a western culture) 2000 years or so later is the height of our narcissism that pervades our American Christian churches. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #60 February 9, 2007 QuoteNarcissism that pervades our American Christian churches. In a scant 7 words, (have at it, numerologists) Steve crystalizes what I cannot stand about Chuteless' type of people.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,501 #61 February 9, 2007 QuoteQuoteNarcissism that pervades our American Christian churches. In a scant 7 words, (have at it, numerologists) Steve crystalizes what I cannot stand about Chuteless' type of people. Seven, the number of the manx cat.....Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #62 February 9, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteNarcissism that pervades our American Christian churches. In a scant 7 words, (have at it, numerologists) Steve crystalizes what I cannot stand about Chuteless' type of people. Seven, the number of the manx cat..... Upcoming Tom Hanks film: The Manx Cat Code.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #63 February 9, 2007 QuoteThe number 666 is NOT the identity of any man, such as you alude to in your post. This is a mistake brought about by the churches who do not understand God's WORD. Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #64 February 9, 2007 QuoteWhat exactly did you expect, with poll options like that? Please explain what is wrong with the poll options, relative to the original news story. What I expect, is for people to answer honestly. So apparently there are either a lot of dishonest people, or else there are a lot of bigots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #65 February 9, 2007 I have given this some thought, and still feel that I should NOT provide the name. However, I feel that if I provide a list of pertinent scriptures, anyone with a Bible should be able to easily figure it out. Firstly, let me tell you that the only prophecies of the Old Testament that have not been fulfilled, are those related to the end times. Some of those prophecies are being fulfilled right now...today. Bush once said he was destined by God to be President #43, and he is so very correct, for God chose Bush to be the president in these end times, the last president the USA will ever have. If Bush knew the facts, and that he is referred to in God's WORD many times , he would likely be quite amazed. I will tell you where the scriptures are found, and give a very brief description of what each verse is founded on, and you will quickly understand who the antichrist is. I have already said the antichrist would attack three nations with limited nuclear weapons, likely Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia, so it isnt one of those nations. The first vision, that God;s prophet Daniel had that tells of these events, is found in Daniel Chapter 7. Daniel describes four great "beasts" that will come up out of the sea of humanity( see verses 2 and 17) The use of the word "HORN" is to symbolize the power of its might, such as in the animal kingdom, the horn is a measure of its might. Realize, that Daniel could not write about nations that were not known by the names they are today, so God had him write with metaphors. You will soon see how. Chapter 7: 4 : The first beast was like a LION, which is England, and it had EAGLE's wings; the USA which grew out of the back of British rule in 1776. He watched this beast, until the eagle's wings were plucked, symbolizing the downfall of the USA, for an eagle with plucked wings cannot attack or defend itself. The USA's demise is also metioned in great detail later in the Bible, and there are numerous references to it in the Old Testament. Verse 5 : The second was like to a BEAR, which is Russia. Verse 6 : The third was like a LEOPARD, which is France....always trying to change its spots, but never succeeding. Verse7: This beast is depicted as the most fearsome and dreadful and terrible, and it is the DRAGON, which is China. It is interesting to note here, that these four beasts ( nations) along with the USA ( the EAGLE) are the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council. This too, is mentioned in the New Testament. Further reference to the Dragon is found in a related verse, Chapter 12: verse 3, of Revelation, where it is stated as the GREAT RED DRAGON. Now "there came up among the horns" Chapter7: 7, and Chapter 8:9 ( and OUT OF ONE OF THEM...the four beasts) and verse 20 , another little horn, and behold, in this horn, were eyes, like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things, and whose look was more stout ( fat) than his fellows ( contemporaries). Look at a map of China, and you will notice there is a "little horn" shaped peninsula that comes OUT OF the coast of China.....Chapter 8:9. So in essence, you have the little horn, with eyes ( that draw one's gaze to them upon seeing this man ) and he is a "mouthy little fat man".....with a nuclear capability. He is that "vile person" referred to in Daniel 11:21, and he is the antichrist. Daniel 9:24 to 27, tells us that there are 70 weeks ( YEARS) determined upon Israel, until the end of sin, and the acceptance of Israel of Jesus Christ as the Messiah. That 70 years began its count on May 15th 1948 when Israel became a nation. This period of 70 years is the third and final period, making a trinitarian FULLNESS of three such periods. The first 70 years was spent in Babylonian captivity beginning in 636 B.C., ....the 2nd period of 70 years, was actually 70 X 36, which is 2520 years, the period of dispersion of the Jews throught the world, ending precisely on May 15th 1948, when the Jews were again gathered together to occupy the land that land that God gave to Abraham,....... ALL the land of Canaan. World pressure has caused Israel to divide the land, and give some to the Palestinians...but the land is rightfully Israel's. The 3rd and final 70 years will end in May 2017, and it will herald the second coming of Christ, and His acceptance by Israel as the Messiah. I should mention, that all years mentioned in scripture are according to the Hebrew calendar, with 360 days in each year. All these statements are confirmed and supported multiple times by very clear verses of scripture. I doubt I'll be back at a computer before Monday, and my desire is not to bother posting anymore on this website. If you can't tell who the antichrist is from the scriptures I have provided, and the hints, then you really are walking around in the dark with your eyes closed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #66 February 9, 2007 I fully understand what Rev 13:18 says, and it is NOT a number pertyaining to any individual man. There are two mysteries hidden within that verse of scripture, and like everyone else who has read it, you read right over them, and don't even know they are there, set in the frame of that one verse....two separate mysteries. Clearly, you know nothing about His WORD, ....or much else from what I read in your posts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #67 February 9, 2007 Bill, are you gonna tell us all who the AntiChrist is or what? I still remember you saying he was your best mate or something. In fact, it wasn't that - it was a voice in your head or a dream wasn't it? At least give us a clue. Does he live in America? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #68 February 9, 2007 Is it Kim Jong Il?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #69 February 9, 2007 QuoteLook at a map of China, and you will notice there is a "little horn" shaped peninsula that comes OUT OF the coast of China.....Chapter 8:9. So in essence, you have the little horn, with eyes ( that draw one's gaze to them upon seeing this man ) and he is a "mouthy little fat man".....with a nuclear capability. He is that "vile person" referred to in Daniel 11:21, and he is the antichrist. The little horn would be Korea, I guess, and the antichrist would be Kim Jong Il. I find it hard to believe that people across the world are going to worship him. They do in North Korea, but that country is run like a cult. I don't see much of the rest of the world bowing down to him. Mostly I see people making fun of him. I've heard many different possiblities for the antichrist, and I don't think this one is the most likely. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #70 February 9, 2007 Yeah, I agree - he's too 'ronery.' 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #71 February 9, 2007 QuoteI have given this some thought, and still feel that I should NOT provide the name. However, I feel that if I provide a list of pertinent scriptures, anyone with a Bible should be able to easily figure it out. I can't say I'm surprised. (And I'm not being snotty with you.) Disappointed a bit, but not surprised. It seems that whenever I ask direct questions to devout born-again Christians, I can never get a direct answer; just a reference to Biblical passages, as if their tongues would burst into flame if they just answered the darn question directly. Example: Me: So are you saying that only believing Christians get into Heaven and the other 2/3 of humanity goes to Hell? Them: Well, the Bible says.... Me: Wait, don't quote me Scripture, just answer the question. Yes or no? Them: If you open your eyes to the Book of Matthew... Me: OK. Never mind. Quote If you can't tell who the antichrist is from the scriptures I have provided, and the hints, then you really are walking around in the dark with your eyes closed. Maybe so. But as I said, I'm no biblical scholar and I feel no compulsion to become one. Scriptures? "Hints"? Why be so coy? I'm often asked by non-lawyer clients to answer specific questions. I always give them a straight answer. Even when I back it up with legal citations and analysis, I always begin with the straight answer. They're not law students; they're clients. They want a straight answer. If I told them I knew the answer, but just gave them the citations to cases and statutes, and told them to discern the answer from those, plus my "hints", lest they walk in the dark, they'd fire me. There's a lesson in that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #72 February 9, 2007 QuoteRealize, that Daniel could not write about nations that were not known by the names they are today, so God had him write with metaphors. You will soon see how. Chapter 7: 4 : The first beast was like a LION, which is England, and it had EAGLE's wings; the USA which grew out of the back of British rule in 1776. He watched this beast, until the eagle's wings were plucked, symbolizing the downfall of the USA, for an eagle with plucked wings cannot attack or defend itself. The USA's demise is also metioned in great detail later in the Bible, and there are numerous references to it in the Old Testament. Verse 5 : The second was like to a BEAR, which is Russia. Verse 6 : The third was like a LEOPARD, which is France....always trying to change its spots, but never succeeding. Verse7: This beast is depicted as the most fearsome and dreadful and terrible, and it is the DRAGON, which is China. Interesting interpretations. I like the one about the eagle & the lion: The USA (the eagle) did in fact spring from England (the lion) The France as Leopard doesn't work as well: The national animal symbolizing France is the rooster, not a leopard. Leopards are fast, dangerous animals also. Some would say this represents the Persian empire, due to the swiftness with which they conquered & established their empire. France, on the other hand, is a much weaker comparison. As for the first beast, the lion with eagle wings, this was commonly used to represent the Babylonian Empire which came before, and which , under Nebuchadnezzar, conquered Jerusalem. (see babylonian statue attached) There's a problem with swapping back & forth between the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation, which was written centuries later. The writers were living in a different historical context, which should be taken into account when you read different books that were written at different times. John of Patmos was dealing with persecution by the pagan Roman Empire at the time he wrote Revelation (1st century AD), wheras the Book of Daniel deals with the succession of kingdoms following the sack of Jerusalem around the 6th century BC: first the Babylonians, then the Medes, then the Persians. Then one beast different from the rest (occidental rather than eastern) which was the Greeks. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #73 February 9, 2007 Well, his 'hints' do seem to point towards the Far East, but I'm of the opinion he has as much knowledge of the antichrist's identity as I do. Which despite having far less biblical knowledge, is still zero. I'm thinking he's been teasing people with this so called knowledge for years. He'll never provide a name - it'll spoil his game. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #74 February 9, 2007 QuoteI doubt I'll be back at a computer before Monday, and my desire is not to bother posting anymore on this website. Bill, I felt the need to reply separately to this. I've seen you say before that you've decided not to post on DZ.com anymore. I can understand why: you express your theological beliefs in very strong, non-"mainstream" language, and when people react to that, often dismissively, sometimes derisively, you find it insulting, so you figure, "why bother?" I can understand that. That aside, Bill, I can tell you this: You're one of the true pioneers of our sport. When I see your posts in the skydiving forums, I find them fascinating; and I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling that way. I hope you at least keep posting about skydiving, for all of us to read, learn and enjoy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #75 February 9, 2007 Bill's achievements certainly command some respect - as does his mature knowledge of the bible. But also I feel that he's continually baiting people with his 'knowledge' of the antichrist - and it does get peoples attention, this so called knowledge. So why the baiting Bill? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
