masterrig 1 #26 February 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteany particular reason why would we want to stay there for decades? Profits for the defense industry? _____________________________ BINGO! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #27 February 9, 2007 bump Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #28 February 9, 2007 QuoteStill, noone has anwered the question, apart from saying we'll have some presence in Iraq for decades. I assume he meant not the full force we have there now. So what specific milestone must be passed for us to bring some or most of our troops home? I think it's important to have this nailed down in specific terms if we are to make decisions about how to proceed from this point forward. In my mind, for the world (not just the US) to step out of that area, there has to be a clear stability of society, and self governance. A reality where self-determination is able to freely grow and where equality amongst its peers allows the extremism to wither on the vine. As long as the lynch pin to the world's economy remains in the hands of ever-increasingly-unstable governments and extremists, the world will not, must not, get out of the way. Yes. It is about oil. Yes. It is about people. Yes. It is about the paths these people are taking (whether by choice or circumstance). Another factor in our presence there will also be Israel and the Palestinians. Despite all the violence there, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict (including Lebanon) is considered the most important issue in the region.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #29 February 9, 2007 QuoteI'm sure sorry to hear that. I sure don't know what kind of gift would even come close to easing that kind of grief. My heart goes out to your co-worker and his family. As for easing the awkwardness, just let him know that you are there for him to help in any way I suppose. I imagine it got tougher for him today. The militant group claiming to have shot his helicopter down on Wednesday released video of it and the subsequent crash & burn today. Imagining myself in his shoes, I'm not sure I'd be able to resist watching it, despite the knowledge that it would likely exasperate the pain. Then again, it could help with closure, so who knows. In the grand scheme of things, there are too many stories like this to tell (over 3100 now), but if anyone is interested, here's one take. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #30 February 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteany particular reason why would we want to stay there for decades? Profits for the defense industry? _____________________________ BINGO! Chuck Free Enterprise? Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwtom 0 #31 February 10, 2007 Quote Then the UN stays and cleans up the crap. As usual. UN goes only in if there is some type of peace agreement or stability. That chance has been f**k up for year and decades to come. Cheers, T ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #32 February 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteany particular reason why would we want to stay there for decades? Profits for the defense industry? _____________________________ BINGO! Chuck Free Enterprise? Free enterprise is not free when it's enforced by guns. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #33 February 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteany particular reason why would we want to stay there for decades? Profits for the defense industry? _____________________________ BINGO! Chuck Free Enterprise? Free enterprise is not free when it's enforced by guns. LOL, I figured it wouldn't take long before you went for the bait. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #34 February 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteany particular reason why would we want to stay there for decades? Profits for the defense industry? _____________________________ BINGO! Chuck Free Enterprise? Free enterprise is not free when it's enforced by guns. LOL, I figured it wouldn't take long before you went for the bait. OK, reel him in then, what's your punch line?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #35 February 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteStill, noone has anwered the question, apart from saying we'll have some presence in Iraq for decades. I assume he meant not the full force we have there now. So what specific milestone must be passed for us to bring some or most of our troops home? I think it's important to have this nailed down in specific terms if we are to make decisions about how to proceed from this point forward. In my mind, for the world (not just the US) to step out of that area, there has to be a clear stability of society, and self governance. A reality where self-determination is able to freely grow and where equality amongst its peers allows the extremism to wither on the vine. . No country can have self-determination when it is occupied by the invading army of another nation. Maliki's government is a puppet. It is overruled by the US on important issues and can do nothing about it. The hype about a free Iraq is a tissue of lies.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #36 February 10, 2007 QuoteLOL, I figured it wouldn't take long before you went for the bait. And ...???----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #37 February 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteany particular reason why would we want to stay there for decades? Profits for the defense industry? _____________________________ BINGO! Chuck Free Enterprise? ____________________________ With a bit of pressure, thrown-in! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #38 February 10, 2007 > there has to be a clear stability of society, and self governance. They had that before we invaded. >Yes. It is about oil. Had our leaders been as honest before the invasion, it's likely we would not be there today, 3100 americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis would be alive, and Iraq would not be a terrorist breeding ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #39 February 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteany particular reason why would we want to stay there for decades? Profits for the defense industry? _____________________________ BINGO! Chuck Free Enterprise? Free enterprise is not free when it's enforced by guns. LOL, I figured it wouldn't take long before you went for the bait. OK, reel him in then, what's your punch line? No punch line. I just knew he couldn't resist that one. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #40 February 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteany particular reason why would we want to stay there for decades? Profits for the defense industry? _____________________________ BINGO! Chuck Free Enterprise? Free enterprise is not free when it's enforced by guns. LOL, I figured it wouldn't take long before you went for the bait. OK, reel him in then, what's your punch line? No punch line. I just knew he couldn't resist that one. So it wasn't so much "bait" as hors d'oeuvres... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #41 February 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteany particular reason why would we want to stay there for decades? Profits for the defense industry? _____________________________ BINGO! Chuck Free Enterprise? Free enterprise is not free when it's enforced by guns. LOL, I figured it wouldn't take long before you went for the bait. OK, reel him in then, what's your punch line? No punch line. I just knew he couldn't resist that one. So it wasn't so much "bait" as hors d'oeuvres I'm actually starting to like you Professor.... that's scary! Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #42 February 10, 2007 Quote> there has to be a clear stability of society, and self governance. They had that before we invaded. I met several who would disagree with you. Society is hardly stable under the threat of destruction for criticism.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #43 February 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteHow long would you like us to stay in Iraq? And exactly what do you visualize would be the situation in Iraq that would allow us to leave? I'm bumping this up again to see if I can get a few more responses. I've been wondering what specifically people have in mind when they talk about "winning" in Iraq, or not leaving "until the job is done" or whatever. What exactly would Iraq look like the day before we bring at least the majority of the troops home? It's simple really - an absolute minimum 'allied' prescence required in country, (perhaps as 'advisers' )because the country has become as stable as can be - and very pro American of course. And Iran are delighted with the situation too. They love having the pro US nation next door. As are the Syrians - they're doing their utmost to rebuild diplomatic relations through their joy of the situation. And the Palestinians! Well, they've caught the feel good bug here, Hamas have spontaneously combusted as an entity, and the remaining parties have came to the conclusion Israel as a nation really does deserve it's recognition, and have disperesed themselves around the middle east to give the Israelis some space as they cope with the situation. .....or perhaps the US won when it got it's fat greedy hands on the oil and exerted it's selfish influence on the region and markets. Fuck it - the whirlwind's been reaped - the Chink's will square us all away anyhow. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #44 February 11, 2007 QuoteI'm actually starting to like you Professor.... that's scary! Don't worry, you'll get over it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #45 February 11, 2007 QuoteNo punch line. I just knew he couldn't resist that one. So let me get this straight... You said something really really stupid so I would come in and correct you? And you get some sort of satisfaction out of this? First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #46 February 11, 2007 >Society is hardly stable under the threat of destruction for criticism. It's certainly stable; just not the sort of stability we like. (Although many here seem to hope for that sort of stability again, with comments like "take the gloves off.") Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #47 February 11, 2007 Quote>Society is hardly stable under the threat of destruction for criticism. It's certainly stable; just not the sort of stability we like. (Although many here seem to hope for that sort of stability again, with comments like "take the gloves off.") No, it wasn't stable, as evidenced by the fact that Saddam's absence created a void larger than anyone wanted to anticipate and the communities allowed the insurgent elements to roll in. If the same thing were to happen here or in maybe some parts of western Europe, the scale of any degradation in the communities would pale in comparison.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #48 February 11, 2007 > as evidenced by the fact that Saddam's absence created a void larger than anyone wanted to anticipate . . . So it was unstable because our invasion of the country and destruction of its government created instability? If, say, China nuked Washington and killed off 99% of our central government, then invaded us, would our resistance to their invasion be considered evidence of our instability? If we refused to unite under the new Chinese-installed government, would it be valid to say that we were not stable before the invasion? >the scale of any degradation in the communities would pale in comparison. So you're saying we would NOT fight a Chinese occupation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #49 February 11, 2007 Quote> as evidenced by the fact that Saddam's absence created a void larger than anyone wanted to anticipate . . . So it was unstable because our invasion of the country and destruction of its government created instability? If, say, China nuked Washington and killed off 99% of our central government, then invaded us, would our resistance to their invasion be considered evidence of our instability? If we refused to unite under the new Chinese-installed government, would it be valid to say that we were not stable before the invasion? >the scale of any degradation in the communities would pale in comparison. So you're saying we would NOT fight a Chinese occupation? We would certainly fight the invaders, and I would anticipate that our neighbors in Mexico and Canada would help our freedom fighters, smuggling arms across the border if necessary.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #50 February 11, 2007 Quote> as evidenced by the fact that Saddam's absence created a void larger than anyone wanted to anticipate . . . So it was unstable because our invasion of the country and destruction of its government created instability? No, I'm saying that the totalitarian rule that was in place and lack of regional government resulted in a less stable society as a whole. QuoteIf, say, China nuked Washington and killed off 99% of our central government, then invaded us, would our resistance to their invasion be considered evidence of our instability? No, and I see the comparison you're trying to make. The majority of people that US forces are facing in Iraq, are not Iraqis. You're trying to make this out as some kind of "resistence" ala German occupied France (even Soviet occupied Afghanistan doesn't even measure up, as a great many of the mujahideen fighers weren't Afghans). QuoteIf we refused to unite under the new Chinese-installed government, would it be valid to say that we were not stable before the invasion? If we voted for it?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
