A question for the Pro-Iraq-War people:

[Beerlight 0]

Ya know prof, all this speak of "invading".


The US has "responded" on numerous occasions to request for help from other countries. But, an actual first attack? hmmmmmmmmm...

[vortexring 0]

Are there any of those alien 'cockknockers' you brought to our attention from an earlier link you posted? Or was it 'fastwalkers'? Or 'shittalkers'?

I can't remember - however, if they'res none of those little Area 51 creatures is it really worth our while?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Ya know prof, all this speak of "invading".


The US has "responded" on numerous occasions to request for help from other countries. But, an actual first attack? hmmmmmmmmm...

Who sent the request for help prior to the Iraq invasion of March 2003?

Who sent the request for help when we "dropped in" on Panama?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Beerlight 0]

Direct result of UN resolution violations my boy.....

and Panama? wait, they are releasing Noreiga, I'll ask him.

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Direct result of UN resolution violations my boy.....

Well, if that's the litmus test then we should have bombed Israel into a sheet of glass by now.

[Beerlight 0]

Quote

Quote

Direct result of UN resolution violations my boy.....

Well, if that's the litmus test then we should have bombed Israel into a sheet of glass by now.

what?

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Direct result of UN resolution violations my boy.....

Well, if that's the litmus test then we should have bombed Israel into a sheet of glass by now.

what?

Israel is in violation of more UN resolutions than any country in the world.

edited to add:
No, I don't think we should bomb them.

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Direct result of UN resolution violations my boy.....

and Panama? wait, they are releasing Noreiga, I'll ask him.

And the "request for help" you mentioned?

If we invaded all countries violating UN resolutions we would be stretched very thin indeed, and would have invaded some very close allies. Possessing OIL seems to be a requirement.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Beerlight 0]

Quote

Quote

Direct result of UN resolution violations my boy.....

and Panama? wait, they are releasing Noreiga, I'll ask him.

And the "request for help" you mentioned?

If we invaded all countries violating UN resolutions we would be stretched very thin indeed, and would have invaded some very close allies. Possessing OIL seems to be a requirement.

If the US wouldn't have responded to numerous "missions" over the years, I'd imagine that much of Europe would be speaking Deutsche, and many Pacific rim countries would be speaking Japanese. over

[billvon 2,991]

>You know and I know {really} that it is not about the oil.

We have ADMITTED it's about the oil. So have several posters here. There are other motivations to be sure, but oil is certainly one of them - a very significant one.

Wolfowitz: ""Let's look at it simply. The most important difference between North Korea and Iraq is that economically, we just had no choice in Iraq. The country swims on a sea of oil."

[Beerlight 0]

It all started in 1990 w/ the UN request for Hussein to redraw from Kuwait. Come to think of it, it WAS about oil.

We can throw this around and around but when it comes right down to it, someone had to stand up (typical Americans) and fight.

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Direct result of UN resolution violations my boy.....

and Panama? wait, they are releasing Noreiga, I'll ask him.

And the "request for help" you mentioned?

If we invaded all countries violating UN resolutions we would be stretched very thin indeed, and would have invaded some very close allies. Possessing OIL seems to be a requirement.

If the US wouldn't have responded to numerous "missions" over the years, I'd imagine that much of Europe would be speaking Deutsche, and many Pacific rim countries would be speaking Japanese. over

Are you now claiming that Hitler's declaration of war against the US on 12/11/1941 was a request for help? Are you saying that the attack on Pearl Harbor was a request for help? You have a very funny idea about things.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Beerlight 0]

negative ghostrider. My claim is if we wouldn't (and you can turn this around too) have responded to request by countries being attacked by those two, then the language of choice in said countries would be what I said. over.

It's all about the oil.

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Direct result of UN resolution violations my boy.....

and Panama? wait, they are releasing Noreiga, I'll ask him.

And the "request for help" you mentioned?

If we invaded all countries violating UN resolutions we would be stretched very thin indeed, and would have invaded some very close allies. Possessing OIL seems to be a requirement.

If the US wouldn't have responded to numerous "missions" over the years, I'd imagine that much of Europe would be speaking Deutsche, and many Pacific rim countries would be speaking Japanese. over

Are you now claiming that Hitler's declaration of war against the US on 12/11/1941 was a request for help? Are you saying that the attack on Pearl Harbor was a request for help? You have a very funny idea about things.

Was the Lend Lease program implemented before or after December 7, 1941?

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

negative ghostrider. My claim is if we wouldn't (and you can turn this around too) have responded to request by countries being attacked by those two, then the language of choice in said countries would be what I said. over.

It's all about the oil.

The US did not go to war against Germany and Italy because other countries asked for help. It went because Hitler and Mussolini declared war on the USA.

The US did not go to war against Japan because other countries asked for help. It went because Japanese forces attacked Pearl Harbor.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Was the Lend Lease program implemented before or after December 7, 1941?

That has been discussed extensively in the "Who was the best US president? " thread, and is irrelevant to the point in question anyway.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Beerlight 0]

I guess it's what your definition of a request, or assistance for that matter.

I seem to remember that an all "volunteer" american force were "helping" out the Chinese against the Japanese before the PH attack.

And I think I recall us helping out the Brits quite a bit earlier than when it broke out on that side of the pond. Something about the merchant marines?

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

I guess it's what your definition of a request, or assistance for that matter.

I seem to remember that an all "volunteer" american force were "helping" out the Chinese against the Japanese before the PH attack.

And I think I recall us helping out the Brits quite a bit earlier than when it broke out on that side of the pond. Something about the merchant marines?

I thought we were discussing invasions and occupations of sovereign nations with and without OIL.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

Quote

Was the Lend Lease program implemented before or after December 7, 1941?

That has been discussed extensively in the "Who was the best US president? " thread, and is irrelevant to the point in question anyway.

Discussed extensively? I checked that thread and found it mentioned, once. And that was to state when it was approved.

Irrelevant to the point? I thought we were talking about getting involved in foreign entanglements without being attacked.

We can debate motivations all day long, but that won't change the fact that we aided England, Russia and others prior to being attacked.

[Beerlight 0]

Quote

Quote

I guess it's what your definition of a request, or assistance for that matter.

I seem to remember that an all "volunteer" american force were "helping" out the Chinese against the Japanese before the PH attack.

And I think I recall us helping out the Brits quite a bit earlier than when it broke out on that side of the pond. Something about the merchant marines?

I thought we were discussing invasions and occupations of sovereign nations with and without OIL.

I know, I know crazy isn't it!

But, ya gotta enjoy a good discussion, and I appreciate your rebuttals.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

http://www.newamericancentury.org/...mentofprinciples.htm

Try this. Notice the names at the bottom. Funny they are all the people that keep coming up in scandals and conspiracy theories.

Wouldnt it be fun to see the portfolios of all the people on that list at the bottom of the page......and see just how much they have made off of this war of...Iraqi Freedom...War on Terror


Elliott Abrams
Gary Bauer
William J. Bennett
Jeb Bush
Dick Cheney
Eliot A. Cohen
Midge Decter
Paula Dobriansky
Steve Forbes
Aaron Friedberg
Francis Fukuyama
Frank Gaffney
Fred C. Ikle
Donald Kagan
Zalmay Khalilzad
I. Lewis Libby
Norman Podhoretz
Dan Quayle
Peter W. Rodman
Stephen P. Rosen
Henry S. Rowen
Donald Rumsfeld
Vin Weber
George Weigel
Paul Wolfowitz


Edited to add
God I hope none of these people are on Dropzone.com.. I would hate to make another personal attack unknowingly.

[swoopgod 0]

You people are a bunch of cry babies, are you really americans? It's a good thing that the founding fathers had real courage, unlike some of you. The only way that the US can be defeated is from the INSIDE. All of the spineless liberals who want to take no action and continue to slam our leadership are trying to insure that we destroy our own nation. If the US is SO bad, then leave.

[SpeedRacer 1]

The founding fathers were liberals who slammed their leadership, so we're in good company.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[Amazon 7]

Quote

You people are a bunch of cry babies, are you really americans? It's a good thing that the founding fathers had real courage, unlike some of you. The only way that the US can be defeated is from the INSIDE. All of the spineless liberals who want to take no action and continue to slam our leadership are trying to insure that we destroy our own nation. If the US is SO bad, then leave.

Nah I raised my hand once upon a time and swore this oath....."I, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God"

In fact I took that oath again.. during my 8 years of service... during the LAST war that was fought by a bunch of fucking incompetent assholes.

That means a lot to me... and this administration has done quite a bit of harm to MY country....Perhaps some of the fascists should leave... or be tried by the World Court.... for crimes against humanity.

No SwoopGod.. our leadership... incompetent as it has been for the last 6 years has insured that we will be fighting the islamofascists for years to come... war without end.... all for personal hubris.. and GREED.

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Quote

You people are a bunch of cry babies, are you really americans? It's a good thing that the founding fathers had real courage, unlike some of you. The only way that the US can be defeated is from the INSIDE. All of the spineless liberals who want to take no action and continue to slam our leadership are trying to insure that we destroy our own nation. If the US is SO bad, then leave.

Amen sister

Nah I raised my hand once upon a time and swore this oath....."I, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God"

In fact I took that oath again.. during my 8 years of service... during the LAST war that was fought by a bunch of fucking incompetent assholes.

That means a lot to me... and this administration has done quite a bit of harm to MY country....Perhaps some of the fascists should leave... or be tried by the World Court.... for crimes against humanity.

No SwoopGod.. our leadership... incompetent as it has been for the last 6 years has insured that we will be fighting the islamofascists for years to come... war without end.... all for personal hubris.. and GREED.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.