USA days as THE superpower are numbered. There IS strength in numbers

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Don't be daft! I'm amazed at how people can't see how much the current American Governments foreign policy is fucking up the world.

If it continues, you might be eating your radioactive chicken noodles sooner than ya' think!

There will never be a government without corruption because governments are made of men and there will always be corrupt men.

"Of two evils we must always choose the least." Thomas a Kempis

If you feel that we are not the least evil ...

It has nothing to do with hreater or lesser evils.

More to do with more intelligent forgein policy application.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

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You're entirely wrong, conceited and arrogant to believe America only needs America. Still, quite a common trait these days.

And half the fucking problem.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

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Don't be daft! I'm amazed at how people can't see how much the current American Governments foreign policy is fucking up the world.

If we avoid being daft, will you avoid being ignorant? What specific policy is fucking up the world? Is it worse than the policies of the Romans, the British, the Japanese, the Germans? When hasn't someone been fucking up the world? You think that someone like China would be a better superpower to deal with? Daft, indeed.

Other than being rather partial to chicken noodles, I'd prefer them not to be the worlds only superpower. You've misunderstood me. Whilst history is important, I find the present times more of a concern. Funny that, isn't it?

The current US Government's deployment in the Middle East has caused destabilisation through mistakes made, poor judgement and sometimes, complete stupidity.

If you fail to see or recognise these rather obvious facts, who's ignorant?

Are you saying that the middle east was stable prior to the current war in Iraq?

Generally it's been unstable since biblical times - in recent years from British intervention prior to WWII and today, from GWII.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Buffs303 0]

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Don't be daft! I'm amazed at how people can't see how much the current American Governments foreign policy is fucking up the world.

If it continues, you might be eating your radioactive chicken noodles sooner than ya' think!

There will never be a government without corruption because governments are made of men and there will always be corrupt men.

"Of two evils we must always choose the least." Thomas a Kempis

If you feel that we are not the least evil ...

It has nothing to do with hreater or lesser evils.

More to do with more intelligent forgein policy application.

That is BS...stop living in denial

Swoop and Poop....my favorite things to photograph

[Butters 0]

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Generally it's been unstable since biblical times - in recent years from British intervention prior to WWII and today, from GWII.

Exactly. The middle east has never been and will most likely never be stable (most likely due to religion).

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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So it's fine to make the area even more unstable?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

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Denial of what?

Truth, justice and the American way? Haven't seen a lot of the first two - plenty of the latter.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Butters 0]

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So it's fine to make the area even more unstable?

Sometimes. It is all right to make something more unstable in the near future in an attempt to make it more stable in the distant future.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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So it's fine to make the area even more unstable?

Sometimes. It is all right to make something more unstable in the near future in an attempt to make it more stable in the distant future.

Blimey.

Well, if it's your rational that's currently being applied in Iraq we've a bit of a long wait haven't we?

How on earth can you justify destabilisation of an entire region? Going by your words, such actions are justified if an attempt is made to make it more stable.

What if that attempt fails, and makes things worse?

Tough shit, huh?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Butters 0]

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So it's fine to make the area even more unstable?

Sometimes. It is all right to make something more unstable in the near future in an attempt to make it more stable in the distant future.

Blimey.

Well, if it's your rational that's currently being applied in Iraq we've a bit of a long wait haven't we?

How on earth can you justify destabilisation of an entire region? Going by your words, such actions are justified if an attempt is made to make it more stable.

What if that attempt fails, and makes things worse?

Tough shit, huh?

Let me explain. In theory I believe it is all right to make an area more unstable in the near future in order to make it more stable in the distant future. However, in practice we must weigh the risk verse reward. Increasing the stability of an area is a large reward. Decreasing the stability of an area is a large risk. Combined with the fallibility (and other characteristics) of men it is often the case that the risk out weighs the reward.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[billvon 2,990]

>hell... ask people in Beijing.

(psst. Beijing is IN China.)

>I don't think you'd like their brand of governing, Bill.

I don't much like it. But their government is up to them. We were talking about empire-building, not how people in their own cities feel about their governments.

But if you'd like to discuss that, why not start a thread on it?

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Ok, fair enough in the sense 'nothing ventured, nothing gained.'

I'm sure all the dead and injured civilians will understand and be glad of their sacrifice.

Because the entire reasoning for GWII was always based on honesty and heartfelt sympathy over the poor Iraqis.

A desire to make ourselves and themselves more safer.

Great. It's working out well. The end's in sight.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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This is a great point! In the media we here about people/countries complaining about the US and our power and influence in the rest of the world, but we could end the globalization idea and do everything within our own borders and survive while still maintaining our military and worldwide superiority.

No you can't.

[Buffs303 0]

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Denial of what?

Truth, justice and the American way? Haven't seen a lot of the first two - plenty of the latter.

You are in complete denial of the fact that you think a "better foreign policy" will solve all of the problems. Let me guess your foreign policy idea is "can't we all just get along?" It is not reality. Choosing the lesser of two evils is life. All human beings have aspects that will be considered evil by others (which translates into the governments), therefore you are forced to choose which is the lesser of the evils among your candidates. In the current case, the talk has been about the Middle East. You can choose to have chaos (which existed in the region far before the US arrived), total lack of respect for innocent lives and inequality OR you can choose the lesser evil that in the end looks towards life without suicide bombings, equality for everyone and gives hope to those people who at the current juncture do not have any sort of say in the way their lives are run. (in other words- DEMOCRACY and a civilized way of living) ....now please comment and disagree with me.

Swoop and Poop....my favorite things to photograph

[NCclimber 0]

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>hell... ask people in Beijing.

(psst. Beijing is IN China.)

>I don't think you'd like their brand of governing, Bill.

I don't much like it. But their government is up to them. We were talking about empire-building, not how people in their own cities feel about their governments.

But if you'd like to discuss that, why not start a thread on it?

You're cherry-picking, Bill. What he said was:

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I'd rather ask the people China isn't using as a PR piece... you know, Tibetans, Taiwanese, hell... ask people in Beijing.

Did you read the recent story about Chinese soldiers shooting Tibetans for merely trying to cross into Nepal?

Are you aware of what has been going on in Tibet, since 1950?

From what I know, it's the same today as it was 50 years ago.

[JohnRich 4]

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the greatest destabilising nation in the world today is America.

You're wrong.

If America were to become a strict isolationist, never meddling in the affairs of other nations, then that would allow all manner of chaos to ensue around the world, from the likes of China, North Korea and Iran. The only thing restraining them is America's power, and our willingness to intercede.

Be careful what you wish for.

One thing for sure, the pussies in the European Union sure as hell won't do anything to keep tyranical dictators at bay around the world.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Did you read the recent story about Chinese soldiers shooting Tibetans for merely trying to cross into Nepal?

Are you aware of what has been going on in Tibet, since 1950?

From what I know, it's the same today as it was 50 years ago.

Clearly the country needs to be invaded and the people need to be liberated from oppression. Or, since their Human Rights record is abysmal, a trade embargo should be put in place...right?

In stead, you give them more and more and mroe and more business...hard to btich about how they treat their people at the same time though. We like how they treat their people, it results in the cheap stuff in WalMart north americans are addicted too.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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One thing for sure, the pussies in the European Union sure as hell won't do anything to quell tyranical dictators around the world.

And, which tyranical dictators has the US taken care off? How many tyranical dictators has the US supported?

[Buffs303 0]

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One thing for sure, the pussies in the European Union sure as hell won't do anything to quell tyranical dictators around the world.

And, which tyranical dictators has the US taken care off? How many tyranical dictators has the US supported?

Ever heard of Hitler?

Swoop and Poop....my favorite things to photograph

[NCclimber 0]

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Did you read the recent story about Chinese soldiers shooting Tibetans for merely trying to cross into Nepal?

Are you aware of what has been going on in Tibet, since 1950?

From what I know, it's the same today as it was 50 years ago.

Clearly the country needs to be invaded and the people need to be liberated from oppression. Or, since their Human Rights record is abysmal, a trade embargo should be put in place...right?

In stead, you give them more and more and mroe and more business...hard to btich about how they treat their people at the same time though. We like how they treat their people, it results in the cheap stuff in WalMart north americans are addicted too.

What does this have to do with American imperialism versus Chinese imperialism?

Billvon was indicating things aren't that bad in China. I offered a counterpoint?

Are you saying it's not that bad in China? That it's horrible?

Hard to tell.

[Trent 0]

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(psst. Beijing is IN China.)

OOHHH, Sweet burn Bill!! You really got me there!
So, having the world dominated by a government that opresses (yes, worse than what some of the whackjobs think the US does) their own citizenry with an iron fist would somehow be better than what goes on today? I think how a government works with its own people is VERY relevant to how they'd treat the people they care even less about. But hey, smartass comments are better than discussion. Bring it!

If you can't see the relevance, well... it'd be as expected.

Oh, hello again!

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Denial of what?

Truth, justice and the American way? Haven't seen a lot of the first two - plenty of the latter.

You are in complete denial of the fact that you think a "better foreign policy" will solve all of the problems. Let me guess your foreign policy idea is "can't we all just get along?" It is not reality. Choosing the lesser of two evils is life. All human beings have aspects that will be considered evil by others (which translates into the governments), therefore you are forced to choose which is the lesser of the evils among your candidates. In the current case, the talk has been about the Middle East. You can choose to have chaos (which existed in the region far before the US arrived), total lack of respect for innocent lives and inequality OR you can choose the lesser evil that in the end looks towards life without suicide bombings, equality for everyone and gives hope to those people who at the current juncture do not have any sort of say in the way their lives are run. (in other words- DEMOCRACY and a civilized way of living) ....now please comment and disagree with me.

Ok, I'll be happy to.

1) You're wrong. Was Iraq in a civil war prior to 2003? No.

2) Was there suicide bombings prior to 2003? No.

Where did America earn the right to physically force democracy throughout the world? Is that equality? Democracy even??

Is hitting urban areas full of women and children and some bad guys with indiscriminate Multiple Launched Rocket Systems and Cobra gunships civilised?

I witnessed that.

Was the lack of action when Iraqi forces crumbled good policy? When the people looted everything they could? Including the numerous, well stocked ammo compounds, good policy? The ammunitition currently being used by the militia's today.

Pretty fucking insane in my book.

I witnessed that too. Stopped a tiny little bit of it as well. Insisted more effort made to stop and prevent it.

But no - literally fuck all was done. Lack of a leadership element there, eh?

In fact, the entire fucking moral leadership component never existed, did it?

A better foreign policy won't necessarily solve all the problems.

But it seems you think all this is 'just the way it is.'
Which is what I perceive to be an outrageous attitude.

Iraq is beyond saving - it's fucked for years to come.

That could have been easily avoided.

Shall I bring up Afghanistan? It's working out well over there too......

I don't live in denial - I witness fucking idiocy all over the world. I'd like it to stop.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[billvon 2,990]

>So, having the world dominated by a government that opresses
>(yes, worse than what some of the whackjobs think the US does)
> their own citizenry with an iron fist would somehow be better than
> what goes on today?

Riiiight. That's what I said. And I spit on soldiers, too.

>But hey, smartass comments are better than discussion.

Then you're doing well!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Ever heard of Hitler?

Hitler declared war on the US, not the other way around. The US was never interested in fighting Hitler. American companies and families were making too much money of the nazis. You might recognize one of those family names. Ever heard of Bush?

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the greatest destabilising nation in the world today is America.

You're wrong.

If America were to become a strict isolationist, never meddling in the affairs of other nations, then that would allow all manner of chaos to ensue around the world, from the likes of China, North Korea and Iran. The only thing restraining them is America's power, and our willingness to intercede.

Be careful what you wish for.

One thing for sure, the pussies in the European Union sure as hell won't do anything to quell tyranical dictators around the world.

No - America is the greatest destabilising nation in the world today. They don't mean to, but they can't fucking help it can they?

Yes, it wouldn't help matters for America to isolate itself. Instead it's done, and it continuing to do worse. Afghanistan and Iraq? Proud of the situations over there?

What am I wishing for?

Christ - for the end of everything America is doing wrong, which, incidently, is a rather significant factor on why I post.

So the current US Government are not pussies through their half-assed actions in Iraq?
When is Mugabe going to be dealt with, or Kim Jong II? I'm hardly holding my breath.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'