Buffs303 0
USA days as THE superpower are numbered. There IS strength in numbers
By
akarunway, in Speakers Corner
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SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteWW 2 would have been lost without the US. So don't try to feed me the bull. If the US didn't get involved we would all most likely be living in a very different world run by Nazi Germany.
I love that line...even better is when people actually believe it too.
Buffs303 0
QuoteQuoteWW 2 would have been lost without the US. So don't try to feed me the bull. If the US didn't get involved we would all most likely be living in a very different world run by Nazi Germany.
I love that line...even better is when people actually believe it too.
Please enlighten me about WW 2 then. I would really love your un-researched ideas.
Swoop and Poop....my favorite things to photograph
Trent 0
QuoteRiiiight. That's what I said. And I spit on soldiers, too.
Go use your bullshit on someone that it may work on. You know you try to misconstrue what I said in a previous post and then unleash even more BS to try to either get away from it or change the subject.
I feel my comments were pertinent to the discussion at hand. Not that I really care, but your comments ignored the discussion in a lame attempt to get some zinger points. Didn't work.
So, what ARE you talking about here, Bill? Just being the contrarian as usual? Sounds fun. You could save time though by just saying "I disagree" then moving on, it'd make about as much sense.
Oh, hello again!
SkyDekker 1,465
QuotePlease enlighten me about WW 2 then. I would really love your un-researched ideas.
Fine, prove to me the first line of your post.
When did the US declare war on the Germans?
Thanks for the advice.
I have some for you; Fuck off.
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
I have some for you; Fuck off.
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
now now vortexring, it's all about a discussion. Don't start "settling with power".
Buffs303 0
QuoteQuotePlease enlighten me about WW 2 then. I would really love your un-researched ideas.
Fine, prove to me the first line of your post.
When did the US declare war on the Germans?
The US originally declared war on Japan (an ally of Germany) as soon as they were bombed at Pearl Harbor, December 7, 1941. Germany actually declared war with the US a few days later. Over the next few years Germany had almost complete control of western europe. June 6, 1944 Normandy was stormed in order to take back W. Europe and therefore, putting a lot more pressure on the country winning the war...yes Germany.
Swoop and Poop....my favorite things to photograph
Quotenow now vortexring, it's all about a discussion. Don't start "settling with power".
Chill out dude - it was a joke.(It's good for morale)
Besides, rate of descent's under control, I've enough airspeed on.
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
It's all cool..... I'll pull some pitch now and get the hell outta here for a while
QuoteQuoteWW 2 would have been lost without the US. So don't try to feed me the bull. If the US didn't get involved we would all most likely be living in a very different world run by Nazi Germany.
I love that line...even better is when people actually believe it too.
You really think the Germans would have lost WWII without US support? I doubt you'll find any history scholars making that claim.
A common misconception is that the US gets most of the credit. I don't buy it. But to say the end result would have been the same without the US is bogus.
Can I hang out the door and shoot all those running thingies?
Please, please, can I, can I, huh?
Please, please, can I, can I, huh?
SkyDekker 1,465
So you think that on June 6, 1944 Germany was still considered to be winning the war? How was that Eastern front for them going anyways by that time?
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteA common misconception is that the US gets most of the credit. I don't buy it. But to say the end result would have been the same without the US is bogus.
Off course it is, just as bogus as saying that Germany would have won if it wasn't for the US.
Neither argument can be proven.
QuoteSo you think that on June 6, 1944 Germany was still considered to be winning the war? How was that Eastern front for them going anyways by that time?
Yeah your right North Africa, Sicily, Anzio, Monte Casino, the Balkans...yep it was a cakewalk.
Why don't you shut up before dishonoring many more dead men who had more courage than you will ever know.
I know far more about the Eastern Front than many people do I studied it and know for a fact all the sacrifices made on both the Russian and German sides of the war, and yet that does not negate the fact that it was a war fought on three fronts!!!
That is something most people know, but cannot fathom the full scale of.
QuoteCan I hang out the door and shoot all those running thingies?
Please, please, can I, can I, huh?
hahaha!
Of course!
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
Quote
WW 2 would have been lost without the US. So don't try to feed me the bull. If the US didn't get involved we would all most likely be living in a very different world run by Nazi Germany. The US put tons of pressure on Hitler and therefore couldn't have enough forces to carry out a sound attack on Russia (they performed a very stupid attack on them instead). In addition, the middle east....you think there would be any sort of tender feelings towards the people and their awful ways? No, they would be gone from the planet because of their skin color. Hitler and followers wouldn't risk lives. They would drop bombs over the whole region and call it a day.
Jesus, man from where are you coming? Under which stone have you been during last decades?
Can't believe my eyes. But, anyhow: It was fun to read your posts
OK, Bill, give me a warning or 14 holidays: It was worth it.
Didn't read such a BS since months.
Normally, I'm an angel, I swear. dudeist skydiver # 3105
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteWhy don't you shut up before dishonoring many more dead men who had more courage than you will ever know.
Because I am related to quite a few of them. And quite frankly, the American notion that if it wasn't for the Americans all would have been lost is quite offensive to them. I have family members who fought in the resistance of three different European countries, family members who fought in Europe and family members who fought in south east asia.
It was nowhere near a cakewalk, I have sat on their knees, hearing the stories, stories of courage, sadness, loss and victory.
Who did you lose in WWII?
SkyDekker 1,465
Quoteand yet that does not negate the fact that it was a war fought on three fronts!!!
Three? Are you sure about that?
billvon 2,990
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>Go use your bullshit on someone that it may work on.
Apparently my "bullshit" is working on you, because you keep replying!
I know you probably don't care much about the subject at hand, but here's a recap:
In a discussion about US imperialism, you claimed that Chinese imperialism would be much worse. I used Hong Kong as an example of Chinese imperialist influcences. In that case, people seem to not mind "Chinese imperialism." You countered with the examples of:
Beijing. It's not an example of Chinese imperialism, so it had nothing to do with the discussion. So from now on we'll ignore it.
Taiwan. Also not a very good example of Chinese imperialism. If anything, this is an example of a country RESISTING Chinese imperialism, since it was once firmly a part of China and is now a separate entity. Right now the people of Taiwan are figthing it out in the voting booth. One party, the Kuomintang/Nationalist party, favors reunification with China. The Democratic Progressive Party favors complete Taiwanese independence. Who will win? Not sure, but it's not our decision - it's theirs. If the Chinese invade to establish control of the newly democratic government, then you might have a good example of Chinese imperialism.
Tibet. This _is_ a good example of Chinese imperialism. While overall living conditions in Tibet have greatly improved since the Chinese invasion, the government there is still fairly repressive, and Tibetians continue to flee the country. While many Tibetians support the PRC government, the majority do not.
You then threw in some gratuitous attacks which we will also ignore for now.
I replied that Beijing is not an example, since it's IN China. You replied and suggested that I thought that "having the world dominated by a government that opresses their own citizenry with an iron fist would somehow be better than what goes on today."
I could ask why you wanted the US to become more like China, but that would be as childish as your reply.
Instead, I will back up a few posts.
You did not deny aka's assertion that the US had imperialist tendencies, but rather compared them to China's and said people would get sick of them more rapidly. (Indeed, you suggested the US was "the devil they knew.") I think people are getting sick of BOTH countries' imperialist attitudes, and the idea that "our imperialism is better than theirs" is a non-starter to me. (Not saying you said that, but that's where the thread was going.)
China shouldn't be oppressing Tibet the way they are. We shouldn't be occupying Iraq the way we are. The world will benefit if both countries stop their respective imperial pursuits, and will suffer if both countries increase their efforts to control other areas under the flag "but we're saving the world from THEM." By and large, people want to be left alone, whether the outside imperial influence is the US, China, or (for other posters in this thread) Hitler.
Apparently my "bullshit" is working on you, because you keep replying!
I know you probably don't care much about the subject at hand, but here's a recap:
In a discussion about US imperialism, you claimed that Chinese imperialism would be much worse. I used Hong Kong as an example of Chinese imperialist influcences. In that case, people seem to not mind "Chinese imperialism." You countered with the examples of:
Beijing. It's not an example of Chinese imperialism, so it had nothing to do with the discussion. So from now on we'll ignore it.
Taiwan. Also not a very good example of Chinese imperialism. If anything, this is an example of a country RESISTING Chinese imperialism, since it was once firmly a part of China and is now a separate entity. Right now the people of Taiwan are figthing it out in the voting booth. One party, the Kuomintang/Nationalist party, favors reunification with China. The Democratic Progressive Party favors complete Taiwanese independence. Who will win? Not sure, but it's not our decision - it's theirs. If the Chinese invade to establish control of the newly democratic government, then you might have a good example of Chinese imperialism.
Tibet. This _is_ a good example of Chinese imperialism. While overall living conditions in Tibet have greatly improved since the Chinese invasion, the government there is still fairly repressive, and Tibetians continue to flee the country. While many Tibetians support the PRC government, the majority do not.
You then threw in some gratuitous attacks which we will also ignore for now.
I replied that Beijing is not an example, since it's IN China. You replied and suggested that I thought that "having the world dominated by a government that opresses their own citizenry with an iron fist would somehow be better than what goes on today."
I could ask why you wanted the US to become more like China, but that would be as childish as your reply.
Instead, I will back up a few posts.
You did not deny aka's assertion that the US had imperialist tendencies, but rather compared them to China's and said people would get sick of them more rapidly. (Indeed, you suggested the US was "the devil they knew.") I think people are getting sick of BOTH countries' imperialist attitudes, and the idea that "our imperialism is better than theirs" is a non-starter to me. (Not saying you said that, but that's where the thread was going.)
China shouldn't be oppressing Tibet the way they are. We shouldn't be occupying Iraq the way we are. The world will benefit if both countries stop their respective imperial pursuits, and will suffer if both countries increase their efforts to control other areas under the flag "but we're saving the world from THEM." By and large, people want to be left alone, whether the outside imperial influence is the US, China, or (for other posters in this thread) Hitler.
This entire thread is a classic example of misinterpretation.
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
QuoteQuoteWhy don't you shut up before dishonoring many more dead men who had more courage than you will ever know.
Because I am related to quite a few of them. And quite frankly, the American notion that if it wasn't for the Americans all would have been lost is quite offensive to them. I have family members who fought in the resistance of three different European countries, family members who fought in Europe and family members who fought in south east asia.
It was nowhere near a cakewalk, I have sat on their knees, hearing the stories, stories of courage, sadness, loss and victory.
Who did you lose in WWII?
Well for starters there is my german relatives that lived in a town in far eastern Prussia...that town was obliterated along with them.
Then there is my fathers uncle who was killed in the Ardennes.
My Dad was nearly killed when sunk on his destroyer in Leyte Gulf.
Yep they sat on the side lines.
I had a great grandfather that was a former catholic priest, he helped in the invasion of Siciliy at great risk to himself and every last relative he had.
I had other family members involved but I don't really know all the details, but wish I had learned them before they had passed away.
Buffs303 0
To answer all of the questions about my posts:
1. The US's presence in the war was vital to Germany's loss. And controlling Western Europe was far more important to Germany than controlling the East. So in terms of winning, Germany was at that point in time.
2. Had the US not entered the war, the outcome may have been different and its possible that we could be living in a world today run by Germany.
3. Had Germany won, our present day conflicts with the middle east would be very different because Nazi Germany's lack of acceptance of people with colored skin, jews, etc. They would have most likely conquered it years ago and killed off the people.
These are all just thoughts and no way of proving it b/c the allies won the war. I was just trying to related it back to the original post and that didn't work so well. The whole WW2 part was way off base of the original posting as well. I don't even remember how it got started, but it was interesting.
I appreciate all of the talk back and forth b/c has kept me busy at work while I have been recovering from a nice hangover.
Blue Skies!
James
1. The US's presence in the war was vital to Germany's loss. And controlling Western Europe was far more important to Germany than controlling the East. So in terms of winning, Germany was at that point in time.
2. Had the US not entered the war, the outcome may have been different and its possible that we could be living in a world today run by Germany.
3. Had Germany won, our present day conflicts with the middle east would be very different because Nazi Germany's lack of acceptance of people with colored skin, jews, etc. They would have most likely conquered it years ago and killed off the people.
These are all just thoughts and no way of proving it b/c the allies won the war. I was just trying to related it back to the original post and that didn't work so well. The whole WW2 part was way off base of the original posting as well. I don't even remember how it got started, but it was interesting.
I appreciate all of the talk back and forth b/c has kept me busy at work while I have been recovering from a nice hangover.
Blue Skies!
James
Swoop and Poop....my favorite things to photograph
WW 2 would have been lost without the US. So don't try to feed me the bull. If the US didn't get involved we would all most likely be living in a very different world run by Nazi Germany. The US put tons of pressure on Hitler and therefore couldn't have enough forces to carry out a sound attack on Russia (they performed a very stupid attack on them instead). In addition, the middle east....you think there would be any sort of tender feelings towards the people and their awful ways? No, they would be gone from the planet because of their skin color. Hitler and followers wouldn't risk lives. They would drop bombs over the whole region and call it a day.
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