what % of deaths in iraq are innocent civilians?

[skinnyflyer 0]

what % of deaths in iraq as a result of coalition forces actions or insurgent actions are innocent civilians.excluding coalition forces from total deaths number.

"Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives."
A. Sachs

[warpedskydiver 0]

Are you wanting to know how many Iraqis civilians coalition forces are killing or how many Iraqis are killed in sectarian violence, or how many Iraqis are killed as a result of Insurgent actions?

[shropshire 0]

Too high.. end of

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[vortexring 0]

An estimation of 100000 civilians killed by coalition forces towards the end of 2004.

Civilians killed by the resulting civil war? More. I don't have the figures - still, how often did you read or hear some snippet of information stating 132 or 89 people killed today by suicide bombers in Iraq? Lost count?

Yep, mission definitely and unequivocally accomplished.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[rushmc 23]

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An estimation of 100000 civilians killed by coalition forces towards the end of 2004.

Quote

and who made this estimate?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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[warpedskydiver 0]

You know how to tell a dead Iraqi civilian, from a dead Iraqi Insurgent, or Dead Iraqi Militiamen?

I don't dispute that many many Iraqi innocents have been killed, I just don't know which are which, and I suspect not too many other people know either.

[skinnyflyer 0]

i googled iraq death toll and found estimates ranging from 30 000 to 655 000.

"Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives."
A. Sachs

[vortexring 0]

That's a good point Randy - obviously nobody can know for sure - as far as I'm aware there isn't an official 'innocent Iraqi's killed' counter.

The result was an analysis written by an international team of public health researchers, so getting there at least, in regards to at least estimating numbers killed:

'The project was designed by Les Roberts and Gilbert M. Burnham of the Center for International Emergency, Disaster and Refugee Studies at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore; Richard Garfield of Columbia University in New York; and Riyadh Lafta and Jamal Kudhairi of Baghdad's Al-Mustansiriya University College of Medicine.

Based on the number of Iraqi fatalities recorded by the survey teams, the researchers calculated that the death rate since the invasion had increased from 5 percent annually to 7.9 percent. That works out to an excess of about 100,000 deaths since the war, the researchers reported in a paper released early by the Lancet, a British medical journal.

The researchers called their estimate conservative because they excluded deaths in Fallujah, a city west of Baghdad that has been the scene of particularly intense fighting and has accounted for a disproportionately large number of deaths in the survey.

"We are quite confident that there's been somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000 deaths, but it could be much higher," Roberts said.

When the researchers examined the causes of the 73 violent deaths collected in the study, 84 percent were due to the actions of coalition forces, although the researchers stressed that none was the result of what would have been considered misconduct. Ninety-five percent were due to airstrikes by helicopter gunships, rockets or other types of aerial weaponry.

Forty-six percent of the violent deaths involving coalition forces were men ages 15 to 60, but 46 percent were children younger than 15, and 7 percent were women, the researchers reported.

The researchers and the Lancet editors acknowledged that the study has clear limitations, including a relatively small sample of violent deaths that were examined directly and the researchers' reliance on individual memories for some information. But the researchers said the findings represent the most reliable estimate to date.

The paper was "extensively peer-reviewed, revised, edited" and rushed into print "because of its importance to the evolving security situation in Iraq, Richard Horton, the journal's editor, wrote in an accompanying editorial.

But Garlasco of Human Rights Watch said it is extremely difficult to estimate civilian casualties, especially based on relatively small numbers. "I certainly think that 100,000 is a reach," Garlasco said.

In addition, his group's investigation indicated that the ground war, not the air war, caused more of the deaths that have occurred.'

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[shropshire 0]

Does it matter.... they're dead and most would not be be if king George had not fucked up.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[warpedskydiver 0]

I would think that finding 655k graves all freshly done within 4 years would be an easy task for, say the french with their sat imagery?

I would also wager if all that could be proven by that methodb many many nations would be posting those photos for the whole world to see in order to stop a so called US led genocide.

That is unless the entire world of physics and science in general goes out the door and does not apply to Iraq.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Are you pissed at Churchill for killing people in WWII?

[shropshire 0]

No so much ( before my time and Winnie didn;'t start that particular war... GWB did and kidies died that did not deserve to, did they?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[rushmc 23]

Quote

That's a good point Randy - obviously nobody can know for sure - as far as I'm aware there isn't an official 'innocent Iraqi's killed' counter.

The result was an analysis written by an international team of public health researchers, so getting there at least, in regards to at least estimating numbers killed:

'The project was designed by Les Roberts and Gilbert M. Burnham of the Center for International Emergency, Disaster and Refugee Studies at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore; Richard Garfield of Columbia University in New York; and Riyadh Lafta and Jamal Kudhairi of Baghdad's Al-Mustansiriya University College of Medicine.

Based on the number of Iraqi fatalities recorded by the survey teams, the researchers calculated that the death rate since the invasion had increased from 5 percent annually to 7.9 percent. That works out to an excess of about 100,000 deaths since the war, the researchers reported in a paper released early by the Lancet, a British medical journal.

The researchers called their estimate conservative because they excluded deaths in Fallujah, a city west of Baghdad that has been the scene of particularly intense fighting and has accounted for a disproportionately large number of deaths in the survey.

"We are quite confident that there's been somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000 deaths, but it could be much higher," Roberts said.

When the researchers examined the causes of the 73 violent deaths collected in the study, 84 percent were due to the actions of coalition forces, although the researchers stressed that none was the result of what would have been considered misconduct. Ninety-five percent were due to airstrikes by helicopter gunships, rockets or other types of aerial weaponry.

Forty-six percent of the violent deaths involving coalition forces were men ages 15 to 60, but 46 percent were children younger than 15, and 7 percent were women, the researchers reported.

The researchers and the Lancet editors acknowledged that the study has clear limitations, including a relatively small sample of violent deaths that were examined directly and the researchers' reliance on individual memories for some information. But the researchers said the findings represent the most reliable estimate to date.

The paper was "extensively peer-reviewed, revised, edited" and rushed into print "because of its importance to the evolving security situation in Iraq, Richard Horton, the journal's editor, wrote in an accompanying editorial.

But Garlasco of Human Rights Watch said it is extremely difficult to estimate civilian casualties, especially based on relatively small numbers. "I certainly think that 100,000 is a reach," Garlasco said.

In addition, his group's investigation indicated that the ground war, not the air war, caused more of the deaths that have occurred.'

This kind of goes to the point you acknowledged. Specificly I think of the helicopter gun ship attacks killing civilians however, I wonder if (since they are very near or in the same building) they really are civilians to begin with??

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[warpedskydiver 0]

I would ask if you were pissed at the french for the way they treated the german population after the treaty of versailles and in effect they caused the situation that manifested itself in WWII.

But fuck it they are french...enough said... period.

I can't think of one french political leader that hasn't been a frightful buggerer.

I will give any french soldier credit where credit is due, it isn't their fault.

Did I mention that France is the home of human rights...


violations

[shropshire 0]

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[vortexring 0]

I'm sure the civilian population of An Nasiriyah might like to explain their firsthand experience of Cobra gunships and MLRS during Spring, 2003.

In today's war fighting scenario's, proportionate responses to situations can be a more than critical area. And again, the resulting actions mentioned question professionalism and moral leadership from certain coalition forces.

It's one example of bad, I could provide some more.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[kallend 2,108]

Quote

I would ask if you were pissed at the french for the way they treated the german population after the treaty of versailles and in effect they caused the situation that manifested itself in WWII.

But fuck it they are french...enough said... period.

I can't think of one french political leader that hasn't been a frightful buggerer.

I will give any french soldier credit where credit is due, it isn't their fault.

Did I mention that France is the home of human rights...


violations

Can we take it from this response that you believe it's OK to do something evil if someone else has previously done something evil?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Quit reading into things, it will mislead you terribly.

[vortexring 0]

Another thing which pisses me off is the amount of people who are happy to gob off and talk down of Arabic people, yet have never even been to the Middle East.

They've seen the news of course, and formed their own misinformed opinion.

And some daft fucker will be sat there, reading this, thinking I'm some kind of Arab lover.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[warpedskydiver 0]

Oh yeahhhh

fucking knob gobblers they are

[vortexring 0]

Bunch of silly wee boys.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[warpedskydiver 0]

But I saw it on... (MSNBC, CNN, FOX, CBS, NBC, ABC, BBC, SKY, AL Jazeera, etc.)

[warpedskydiver 0]

Did I mention I like Ale?...damn that thought makes me thirsty...I wish I had a keg of Tetleys and the Nitrogen tank...hmmm

[vortexring 0]

My 'Taking-the-piss-ometer' needle just flicked into the amber area Randall. I swear to God if it goes to red I'll be on the first flight to Chicago to kill you with your own shoe.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[warpedskydiver 0]

Thanks!