jakee 1,563 #126 February 23, 2007 QuoteDid you know that you have to dehydrate nearly 1000 fairies (of standard build, not the big ones from west Ireland, wings NOT plucked of course) to get even 1 full teapoon of fairy dust? PETA is aware of the situation, and will soon be blockading Fairy dust suppliers. A worldwide Gnome shortage is expected as a result.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #127 February 23, 2007 I believe in lemurs, Marmosets, and cassowaries.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikempb 0 #128 February 23, 2007 Youve missed my point.. I'm not trying to prove there is a God, just because I believe. I'm not trying to force anyone into believing it. I was responding to the arguement people use that there is no proof therefore there is no god. If they could prove there isnt a God, then not believing is the proper response. If you cant you should keep an open mind since you dont know one way or the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #129 February 23, 2007 QuoteYouve missed my point.. I'm not trying to prove there is a God, just because I believe. I'm not trying to force anyone into believing it. I was responding to the arguement people use that there is no proof therefore there is no god. If they could prove there isnt a God, then not believing is the proper response. If you cant you should keep an open mind since you dont know one way or the other. Do you have an open mind about the Flying Spaghetti Monster? His point (I think) is that there are an infinite number of non-existent things, and we shouldn't have to disprove the existence of all of them. Logic puts the burden of proof on those claiming that something exists to prove it, not on others to prove its non-existence.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigtexan 0 #130 February 23, 2007 Your right - we cannot prove nor disprove; either side. however - when people start pushing their beleifs on others by trying to get laws in place, by brute force, killing, etc.. (just look at history, abortion, gay marriage, the world is flat, the world is round, the sun is the center of the solar system, etc........ did I say etc..., like as in on and on and on and on and on and on.......the issues never stop) over what they beleive is the way people need to live their lives, the things they can and cannot do, the people they can love, what they can think or not think... well, this is the core of the issue. Beleive in what makes you content. Dont' try to enforce your view on me either directly or inderectly. See, if we tolerated, on both sides, then all of this would go away. Take gay marrage - case in point. Screw religion -their the ones who are intolerant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #131 February 23, 2007 umm yeah what Kallend said is pretty much what I was trying to say. I just have to add this. QuoteIf they could prove there isnt a God, then not believing is the proper response. So then you must believe in all the other gods out there too. Since they can not be proved to not exist? What else can we dream up that we don't have to prove to exist but instead just not be able to prove to not exist? by your logic we should believe in every thing that we can prove to exist and everything that we can not prove to not exist! I am sorry but that doesn't work for me and just doesn't make sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #132 February 23, 2007 Ya know this logic of yours really gives me a head ache thinking about it. Just think all the gods out there that have yet to be imagined that could possibly exist!! All we have to do is not be able to prove they don't exist!!! Wow that's profound. do you see how hard it is for me to understand spirtualistic people? I am not trying to belittle you or make fun of you, just trying to convey my point of view the best that I can. Can you see my logic? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #133 February 25, 2007 that it cannot be proven is a lie, as big as the one about jesus is the sun of god www.godisimaginary.comwe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigtexan 0 #134 February 26, 2007 na.. humans cannot 'prove' it, with the same rigor as you could say a mathematical proof. who is to say were not the play thing of some god out there somewhere - and that he does have the power to create our world - us, etc... we wouldn't know - it the old evil scientiets thing - are we us, or are we just brains in a bottle - are you the only one and your brain exists alone - I am just a program interacting with your brrain - or program.. or what ever you are. Maybe your a snake in the grass dreamin this whole thige. ever see matrix.. we cannot see out of our box so there fore we can never know what is on the outside. it's called the edge of space/time btw. beyond this limit - all bets are off. iside black holes - all bets are off. we simply do not koww he nature of the universe. -hell, we don't even know what space is. There is a great book ISBN-13: 978-0679454434 "The road to reality" - It's a heavy read and you need a college level mathematics (very string mathematics) backgound to understand it completely. However, it's a great book. here you can get are nice survey on the state of our knowledge of the universe - and in there you will see that a true physicis't view doesn't rule out a god. It just says its damn near zero in possibility - but we just cannot know at this time and may never know. -man my typing was exceptionally bad on this one-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #135 February 26, 2007 Quotea true physicis't view doesn't rule out a god. It just says its damn near zero in possibility - but we just cannot know at this time and may never know. This isn't much of an arguement for Christianity either. The same thing could be said for every other god out there and anything else man can imagine. This is like saying there are winged monkeys some where out there on a planet in a galaxy far far away. Is it possible? Well anything is possible. There is the same amount of evidence for both Allah, the Christian God and winged monkeys. Which should you go by? Well that depends on which one feels better to you or which one you grew up with. It's so arbitrary that I could dream up my own version of god and start my own religion. In fact if you talk to enough Christians you will find that each one has their own view of what God is. So in effect each Christian out there really has their own specific God. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #136 February 27, 2007 Quote who is to say were not the play thing of some god out there somewhere - and that he does have the power to create our world - us, etc... Yes, in theory it is possible. Also it is possible that our whole world was created 5 minutes ago - someone created everyone like they are, and put some memories of things which never really happened. This theory is on the same level as The Matrix theory, and The Bible theory - it is impossible to prove it, but it is impossible to controvert it as well. So what would you say, should we study all those theories (and probably a hundred million of similar theories)? Of course not. The reason is that those theories are not constructive, and studying them will not really help anyone. Remember the black death epidemy in Middle Ages? Some people said that it was Revenge of God for people being immoral and having less faith, so everybody had to pray more. Was this aproach useful? No, because there were no evidence to support this claim. And it was impossible to get any real evidence - because the fact that God itself exists is based only on beliefs. Then other people said that black death is a disease caused by bacteria, which could be killed with right medicine, and which also could be prevented. And they had evidence you don't have to be a believer to accept - they gave you medicine, and you healed quickly. Was this appropach useful? Obviously. Therefore there is no actual reason to do an exact science study of religion-based theories. If everyone believed that lightning bolt is a Wrath of God to scare non-believers, we would not have electricity.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voltage 0 #137 February 28, 2007 I am really enjoying this thread. Talking about God is fun . Please keep going. > Skydiving - fun, not sinful, not hurtful. Are you sure about the not hurtful part? I will take your word for it > Having sex with another woman if your wife is OK with it - fun, sinful, not hurtful. Sometimes its even more fun BECAUSE it is sinful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortyj 0 #138 February 28, 2007 So how do you explain the flood and all the stories in the Bible that REAL people seen and lived through? Or do you just think they made that stuff up? Why would they make that stuff up there would be no reason to.Playtime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #139 February 28, 2007 The flood story is utterly ridiculous in its literal form. No one can take it seriously. For example, how could fish survive the changing salinity of the oceans? How could Noahs ark survive the pressure of the water? it would have rained 30 feet of water every hour. A much more likely explanation for flood legends is local floods which local people perceived to be global floods in their era of no global communication. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,073 #140 February 28, 2007 > So how do you explain the flood and all the stories in the Bible that REAL >people seen and lived through? The "deluge" likely occurred around 7000 years ago when the Mediterranean broke through the Bosporous and filled a geological depression; that depression eventually became the Black Sea. To people living there, it would have seemed like the entire world was flooding. It would have been incredibly violent and rapid once it got started. Note that there are almost identical stories in most religions around that area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #141 February 28, 2007 I never said the Bible didn't have any historical significance. I just question the existance of God or any gods. As a result of that I question the belief that the Bible was written by God. The people of the time attributed anything they didn't understand to God and wrote that in their book. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #142 February 28, 2007 QuoteFor example, how could fish survive the changing salinity of the oceans? There are fish today which can adapt to changing salinity of water. Those that cannot withstand changes in salinity, temperature, turbidity, etc. have become more specialized over time through natural selection. They would have died and mass extinctions would have occurred then just as they would now. There is no reason, however, to believe that surviving fish (those able to adapt) couldn't repopulate. That is certainly not a good argument against the global flood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #143 February 28, 2007 Quote So how do you explain the flood and all the stories in the Bible that REAL people seen and lived through? Or do you just think they made that stuff up? Why would they make that stuff up there would be no reason to. So all ancient religious books are real depictions of real events. Check!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #144 February 28, 2007 QuoteThere is no reason, however, to believe that surviving fish (those able to adapt) couldn't repopulate. That is certainly not a good argument against the global flood. So you believe in evolution. Check! (BTW, the entire field of geology is good evidence against a global flood.)Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortyj 0 #145 February 28, 2007 There is a differance between mirco evolution and evolutionPlaytime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #146 February 28, 2007 Quote(BTW, the entire field of geology is good evidence against a global flood.) God simply planted those sea shells on top of Pike's Peak to fool the weak minded into believing the earth is more than 5000 years old. I know, I've seen them myself. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #147 February 28, 2007 QuoteGod simply planted those sea shells on top of Pike's Peak to fool the weak minded into believing the earth is more than 5000 years old. I know, I've seen them myself. I saw a dinosaur skeleton on display in a museum once, damn thing was made of plaster! Who do those jokers think they're trying to kid?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #148 February 28, 2007 Quote There is a differance between mirco evolution and evolution And what would that be? (Beyond, of course, lots of micro evolution piled on top of itself)Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortyj 0 #149 February 28, 2007 ex. micro evolution salt water crocks and alligators. For all evolutionist out there if we came from apes why don't you still see apes becoming people?Playtime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,073 #150 February 28, 2007 > ex. micro evolution salt water crocks and alligators. Right. Some more examples of microevolution: Rhino-like-creature to hippopotamus-like-creature hippopotamus-lc to sea lion-lc sea lion-lc to seal-lc seal-lc to manatee-lc manatee-lc to dolphin-lc dolphin-lc to whale-lc Example of "macroevolution" - rhino to whale Macroevolution, microevolution, evolution - they're all the same thing. The longer you wait the more change you see. >For all evolutionist out there if we came from apes why don't you still >see apes becoming people? Because it takes millions of years. You won't see it unless you live a few million years, which is doubtful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
