Do you believe in Alexander the Great?

[steveorino 7]

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If you grew up in a Muslim community do you think you would have eventually converted to Christianity? Is you religon a product of your environment?

Well, I will never know for 100% certainty as I was born into a Christian family & community. I could summise that the odds were that I would not. However, I know some Muslims who have converted to Christianity so it certainly would not be beyond the realm of possibility.

I believe my enviornment gave me a better chance of being a Christian. But I did not make my mind up about Christ in a vacuum. Yes, I had influences that were pro christianity, but I also had influences that were not. I have seen what evil can be done in the name of Christianity. While that has moved me away from program oriented churches, it has drawn me closer to a more personal walk with Christ, as I become his follower.

steveOrino

[steveorino 7]

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NO It would have to demonstrated for everyone not just me and repeatable.

So every minute of every day God would have to do something "in a tangible way that everyone would agree on" to prove he is God?

steveOrino

[jakee 1,490]

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I'm just trying to find a credible source claiming that an entity presumed to be Zeus appeared before Alexander the Great.

It doesn't even have to be a credible source - just a source. And as I said, Arrian and Plutarch.

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Could you provide one? Or are you just going to continue with your cheap personal attacks?

What, asking if you had bothered to read any primary sources?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,490]

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I never thought we'd see an argument about Greek myth in Speakers' Corner.

NCc will argue about anything to avoid the actual topic of a thread.

The man never met a nit he didn't want to pick repeatedly batter into the ground with a sledgehammer.

The only reason I questioned this kallend's latest claim is because it goes to a pattern of misrepresentation.

And I've already pointed out to you that it is you who have misrepresented what kallend said in this thread. Kallend said that if the FSM decided to appear as Zeus who are we to question? Did the mention of such a transparently fictional entity as the FSM not tip you off to the fact that the post may not, in fact, have been typed in all seriousness?

Pelosi's still waiting for her jet.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[beowulf 1]

What made you think that every minute of every day god would have to something to prove his existence? I know of magnetism through easily reproduced evidence. If there is a god there should be similar evidence.

[steveorino 7]

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What made you think that every minute of every day god would have to something to prove his existence? I know of magnetism through easily reproduced evidence. If there is a god there should be similar evidence.

Every minute and every day, because that is about how often someone would ask if there is a God. I just guess on the rate of course, but I'm pretty sure the odds are it is daily event somewhere.

PLUS it would have to be a proof that 100% of the people from rain forrest tribes to Kallend (See Prof, I put you at the top of my list) would agree on. I mean, that would be the criteria you set, right?

steveOrino

[NCclimber 0]

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And I've already pointed out to you that it is you who have misrepresented what kallend said in this thread. Kallend said that if the FSM decided to appear as Zeus who are we to question? Did the mention of such a transparently fictional entity as the FSM not tip you off to the fact that the post may not, in fact, have been typed in all seriousness?

Speaking of moving the goal posts.

I asked - So Zeus appeared to Alexander The Great?

Kallend replied - You should go to the library more often.

Since then, I've basically been asking that same question. You've posted a few personal attacks about my not knowing of this.

I've checked here:
http://www.greece.org/alexandria/alexander/Pages/siwa.html

and here:
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Lives/Alexander*/4.html

and here:
http://www.siu.edu/~dfll/classics/Civ2004/alia/alexander.pdf

as well as a bunch of other sites and come up with nothing claiming Zeus appeared before Alexander.

How about a link?

[kallend 2,027]

You sure waste a lot of time stalking me

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

I guess any claims of Zeus allegedly appearing before Alexander are just pure fiction.

[kallend 2,027]

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I guess any claims of Zeus allegedly appearing before Alexander are just pure fiction.

If the FSM wants it to appear to you as pure fiction, who am I to argue?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,490]

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I guess any claims of Zeus allegedly appearing before Alexander are just pure fiction.

Ideas of what gods were and how divine communications worked were very different in ancient times to what they are now. The god Ammon (considered by the Greeks to be Zeus under a different name) addressed Alexander as a deity. That this is through an oracle, or even that it may have been a slip of the tongue is irrelevant to the ancient idea that the god did actually talk to Alexander and confirm his divinity (In Herodotus the oracles of Apollo at Delphi and the Oracle of Ammon are singled out as being utterly infallible). The conquered Persians took this to heart a lot more than the Greeks who were mostly quite resistant to the idea of kingship itself, let alone divine right to rule.

The assertion that kallend simply "made up" the entire idea is unsupportable.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[beowulf 1]

I don't set criterias. I just know I don't want to be bullshitted by fast talking salesman pretending to sell stairways to heaven. Not saying thats you. Just that there are plenty of them out there. Just turn on the TV and they are always asking for money. Apparently their version of God is always broke.

[NCclimber 0]

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I guess any claims of Zeus allegedly appearing before Alexander are just pure fiction.

Ideas of what gods were and how divine communications worked were very different in ancient times to what they are now. The god Ammon (considered by the Greeks to be Zeus under a different name) addressed Alexander as a deity. That this is through an oracle, or even that it may have been a slip of the tongue is irrelevant to the ancient idea that the god did actually talk to Alexander and confirm his divinity .

A priest may have given Alexander a message from Zeus or maybe the priest merely incorrectly uttered a syllable?

I can see how some might interpret this to mean Zeus appeared before Alexander.

[jakee 1,490]

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I can see how some might interpret this to mean Zeus appeared before Alexander.

In the ancient world, it would very, very easily have been interpreted that way. You can't put modern standards on ancient thought.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[steveorino 7]

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I don't set criterias. I just know I don't want to be bullshitted by fast talking salesman pretending to sell stairways to heaven. Not saying thats you. Just that there are plenty of them out there. Just turn on the TV and they are always asking for money. Apparently their version of God is always broke.

Well, on that much we agree. I even have issues with dudes selling stuff for ministry, like cds of sermons, etc. Not to mention the Jesus trinkets!

steveOrino

[NCclimber 0]

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I can see how some might interpret this to mean Zeus appeared before Alexander.

In the ancient world, it would very, very easily have been interpreted that way. You can't put modern standards on ancient thought.

You say it "would very, very easily have been interpreted that way", but (from what I can tell) none of the historians from the ancient world interpreted it that way.

[Andy9o8 2]

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If you grew up in a Muslim community do you think you would have eventually converted to Christianity? Is you religon a product of your environment?

Well, I will never know for 100% certainty as I was born into a Christian family & community. I could summise that the odds were that I would not. However, I know some Muslims who have converted to Christianity so it certainly would not be beyond the realm of possibility.

I believe my enviornment gave me a better chance of being a Christian. But I did not make my mind up about Christ in a vacuum. Yes, I had influences that were pro christianity, but I also had influences that were not. I have seen what evil can be done in the name of Christianity. While that has moved me away from program oriented churches, it has drawn me closer to a more personal walk with Christ, as I become his follower.

Interesting, because I was actually thinking about asking you the exact same question over in that other thread. So since you've given this answer, here's a follow-up question:

Do you think that if you'd been born into a Muslim family, especially if you'd grown up in a predominantly Muslim community, it's likely that you'd be a believing Muslim today?

If so, do you think it's because your brain is already "hard-wired" (predisposed) to be inclined to have spiritual beliefs as an adult (nature), with the type of belief being mainly a product of environment (nurture)?

[tbrown 26]

He was also said to be a virgin birth !

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[steveorino 7]

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If you grew up in a Muslim community do you think you would have eventually converted to Christianity? Is you religon a product of your environment?

Well, I will never know for 100% certainty as I was born into a Christian family & community. I could summise that the odds were that I would not. However, I know some Muslims who have converted to Christianity so it certainly would not be beyond the realm of possibility.

I believe my enviornment gave me a better chance of being a Christian. But I did not make my mind up about Christ in a vacuum. Yes, I had influences that were pro christianity, but I also had influences that were not. I have seen what evil can be done in the name of Christianity. While that has moved me away from program oriented churches, it has drawn me closer to a more personal walk with Christ, as I become his follower.

Interesting, because I was actually thinking about asking you the exact same question over in that other thread. So since you've given this answer, here's a follow-up question:

Do you think that if you'd been born into a Muslim family, especially if you'd grown up in a predominantly Muslim community, it's likely that you'd be a believing Muslim today?

If so, do you think it's because your brain is already "hard-wired" (predisposed) to be inclined to have spiritual beliefs as an adult (nature), with the type of belief being mainly a product of environment (nurture)?

I think I already answered that question in what you quoted.

steveOrino

[masterblaster72 0]

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Then why would mention it? How would I benefit from it?

It appears that you definition of evidence doesn't match mine.

I also gave you some hard evidence. My wife drove over my son. He didn't even have a mark on his body ... nothing but tire tracks. That comfort I received back in the Airborne days comforted me that he woul not be harmed even though I was told he was dead. That was REAL evidence to me. I saw the sleeper with tire tracks, I saw his little 18 month old body that had nothing on it but small indentations from the gravel that sticks in a 1969 land yacht Buick's tires.

That's a hell of a story. I believe it (not being sarcastic).

Try telling the lady across the street from the house I grew up in that there's a g-d. Her only child died of an extremely rare cancer that only about eight people a year in the USA get. She no longer believes, and I don't blame her.

Glad things worked out for you, if that happened to me, I might believe in G-d too. Not everyone has your kind of luck though.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[steveorino 7]

You're right. Years later a pastor friend accidently drove over his son and killed him. I have no answers that make sense to him.

steveOrino

[labrys 0]

Yes, there was a gay conquerer named Alexander.

Owned by Remi #?

[jakee 1,490]

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Yes, there was a gay conquerer named Alexander.

Modern interpretations of gay or straight don't really apply.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[NCclimber 0]

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Yes, there was a gay conquerer named Alexander.

Modern interpretations of gay or straight don't really apply.

Considering your past efforts to discount/demean various aspects Christianity, some having to do with the historical record, you sure do seem more than willing to put Alexander on a pedestal, overlooking his history, in favor of your own interpretation. .

None of his biographers ever claimed that Zeus appeared before Alexander, but we know better.

Alexander poked the fartbox of quite a few lads, but that should not be considered homosexual behavior.

Crack me up.

[Andy9o8 2]

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I think I already answered that question in what you quoted.

Well, I tend to be very anal about language, and occasionally it's more of a hindrance to me than a help. Sorry for that.
I viewed your previous answer as simply saying that if you'd been born Muslim, you'd likely not convert to Christianity. I was asking whether, given your personal inclination to faith, had you been born/raised in a Muslim family, that it would also be likely that your (hypothetical) personal devotion to Islam would be as great as your (actual) personal devotion to Christianity is today. I take it from your response that the answer is "Probably Yes".
Thanks.