Al Gore, not practicing what he preaches

[dorbie 0]

http://www.tennesseepolicy.org/main/article.php?article_id=367

Energy conservation, just for the rest of us so that Gore can live in style.

[quade 4]

I'm guessing that MOST wealthy households use more electricity than the average ones simply because they're larger.

I'm further guessing that if you have Secret Service surveillance equipment running 24/7 it probably uses quite a bit more than the Brinks security system at my house.

Overall, I'd cut the guy some slack.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[warpedskydiver 0]

Why?

[Lindercles 0]

This just in: Al Gore is a politician. More shocking revelations at 11.

[quade 4]

Quote

Why?

Do you realize that simply asking the question "Why?" is pointless?

I have a boss that is, by all accounts, fairly mystical in his approach to some decisions. Frequently, my subordinates will ask me "Why" he did this or that. I've told them that simply asking "Why" is pointless. The boss isn't going to change his mind and the boss doesn't really have to justify his decisions, especially if he's ALREADY given a rationalization.

So, you simply asking me "Why?" is kinda, well, silly.

I ALREADY TOLD YOU.

Now, if you'd like to make a counter-point to my reasoning, I'd be happy to hear it and you MAY even sway my view, but a one word sentance of "Why?" is just meaningless to me.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[dorbie 0]

Quote

Overall, I'd cut the guy some slack.

I would if he wasn't telling us all to cut our consumption or even if his own consumption hadn't gone UP since he released his movie. This makes him look like a hypocritical pig.

[lawrocket 3]

I would disagree with cutting him some slack. On the contrary, he deserved greater scrutiny on the basis of the role he has taken as the world's pre-eminent critic of carbon-based energy.

Does he use greener energy? It doesn't seem like it. Perhaps he could look towards solar or wind power, but there seems to be no evidence that he utilizes any form of green energy.

Does Al Gore not travel via private jet? When "An Inconvenient Truth" was released, he was in Atlanta for a preview one night, Hollywood the next, and Washington D.C. the next - three transcontinental trips in three days.

As David Geffen just pointed out, it is not hard to see flaws with a person who drives a hybrid and flies a private jet. How does Al Gore explain the pollution caused by flying a private jet? I understand he claims that he uses renewable energy credits.

Look - people calling for action by others should be taking that action themselves. If Al Gore believes that the planet should be taking drastic efforts to reduce carbon emissions, it should start with him. It does not.

If Al Gore REALLY, HONESTLY believes in what he is saying, then he should put his money where his mouth is. He is not willing to change his lifestyle, but is willing to exploit the easily available energy to which hehas access to tell the rest of the world to conserve it.

I believe that there is nothing wrong with what Al Gore does. He's got the ability and the resources, so let him. I DO have a problem with any person who preaches what everyone ELSE should be doing, himself exempted.

When a person says that it is worth it for everybody to make a change, but has refused to do so himself, I find it to be compelling evidence that the speaker does not believe what he is saying.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

I'm guessing that MOST wealthy households use more electricity than the average ones simply because they're larger.

I'm further guessing that if you have Secret Service surveillance equipment running 24/7 it probably uses quite a bit more than the Brinks security system at my house.

Overall, I'd cut the guy some slack.

Former VPs do not receive a Secret Service detail after they leave office. Only the Presidents get that and under a law signed by President Clinton, they only get it for 10 years after office. That leaves President Clinton as the last President to receive lifetime protection.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

I'm guessing that MOST wealthy households use more electricity than the average ones simply because they're larger.

True. And most wealthy households don't have heads of household who make a bazillion dollars proselytizing about environmental catastrophe caused by undisciplined use of energy,

Also, most wealthy households would have the money to switch to green power, or have the resources to make their homes more energy efficient.

Quote

I'm further guessing that if you have Secret Service surveillance equipment running 24/7 it probably uses quite a bit more than the Brinks security system at my house.

Yes, but not 20 times the amount of energy used by the average person. His energy usage is comparable to that of a ten suite office building. And, how much time does Gore and his family spend AWAY from the house? "Hey, Al! Turn the lights off when you leave!"

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Dude quit making sense, it really makes some of the posters depressed, but it's ok, they can just close their eyes and say "I don't wanna believe, I don't wanna believe"

You know... just like normal

[SpeedRacer 1]

This just in from FOX news!

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[billvon 3,075]

>Look - people calling for action by others should be taking that
> action themselves. If Al Gore believes that the planet should be
> taking drastic efforts to reduce carbon emissions, it should start with
> him. It does not.

I'm one of the people calling for action. Yet I drive a car and skydive! What a hypocrite! I'm worse than Gore! (but fewer people hate me because I never ran for president.)

The car I use is a Prius, and I run it on a 50/50 ethanol/gas mix. Over the year I use a total of about 100 gallons of gas, 100 of E85. I also skydive, making about 300 jumps a year. Per the great Burke, that's about a gallon a load.

I generate about 20kwhr/day from my solar power systems and through systems I've given away to other people to use. I use about 5. That's about 15kwhr/day. 13kwhr is about equivalent to a gallon of gasoline burned in a generator, so I'm 'contributing' about a gallon of gas a day worth of energy to the national grid. (I can zero out my balance with my solar power system, but I can't "get money back" so it's basically donated.)

That's about 421 gallons gasoline equivalent I donate a year. Around here, that means that amount of natural gas saved, since that's mostly what we burn for power around here. I use about 400 gallons of fossil fuels (gas+JP4) a year. If everyone was like me we could shut down every single one of our fossil fuel powered generation plants here in the US - that's every single coal, oil and natural gas fired power plant. (We'd keep the nuclear and hydro plants for baseline generation; you still need power at night.) And all that extra fuel would be available for transportation.

That's my solution to the problem. I see absolutely nothing wrong with _using_ energy - it's using energy and damaging the environment that's the problem. So I take steps to make sure I am not an undue burden on the system.

However, not everyone is like me. Most people can't install solar power systems for other people, put in greywater systems, mix E50 at home etc, or they live in areas where solar/wind/microhydro power isn't feasible. But they still want to mitigate their impact - so they buy renewable energy credits. Those credits basically finance projects like mine that have the same sort of effect on energy usage, CO2 emissions and pollution.

>I DO have a problem with any person who preaches what everyone
>ELSE should be doing, himself exempted.

I preach basically the same thing, and I'm in about the same boat as him - except that I generate my own renewable power directly.

[lawrocket 3]

I took a little bit deeper of a look at it. Indeed, Al Gore, by and through his spokespeople, has claimed that he goes "carbon neutral" on his promotions of his documentary.

Here is what that DOES NOT mean: it does not mean that Al Gore is producing more carbon pollution that he is using.

Here is what that DOES mean: it means that Al Gore is paying other people who are not producing carbon pollution. Actually, Paramount Pictures is footing the bill.

This goes to the whole idea of Al Gore's belief that he shouldn't have to limit carbon - others should, not him - especially if others are paying for it.

You know, the poor in this country and world cannot afford to pay others not to produce carbon. Al Gore is eating up the carbon credits. Instead of not producing as much carbon (his own invention, the internet, would allow him to make his presentations worldwide through web conferencing) and helping ease that burden, he is producing tons of it.

And here's the point about "carbon neutral" - if someone posts something about the money he spent to purchase offset credits, the larger the number is the more he pollutes.

Al Gore should get the message he is delivering - stop polluting so much.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

>Look - people calling for action by others should be taking that
> action themselves. If Al Gore believes that the planet should be
> taking drastic efforts to reduce carbon emissions, it should start with
> him. It does not.

I'm one of the people calling for action. Yet I drive a car and skydive! What a hypocrite! I'm worse than Gore! (but fewer people hate me because I never ran for president.)

Bill, I will be amongst the first to point out that you practice more than what you preach as it relates to conservation.

Can everyone do what you've done (two hybrid cars, solar power that puts power back in the grid etc)? No. Should everyone do something (even if it's a small contribution)? Yes.

Quote

>I DO have a problem with any person who preaches what everyone
>ELSE should be doing, himself exempted.

I preach basically the same thing, and I'm in about the same boat as him - except that I generate my own renewable power directly.

Right, you basically walk the talk...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kelpdiver 2]

How big is this mansion, and how big is the guesthouse? If the latter is as big as a regular home, big surprise. Is there a pool?

It's hard to evaluate how bad he is without knowing something about the premises, and the number of people living there.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

not everyone is like me. Most people can't install solar power systems for other people, put in greywater systems, mix E50 at home etc, or they live in areas where solar/wind/microhydro power isn't feasible. But they still want to mitigate their impact - so they buy renewable energy credits. Those credits basically finance projects like mine that have the same sort of effect on energy usage, CO2 emissions and pollution.

Bill, you are NOTHING like him. You are doing what you can and not making a load of money off of it. He can finance projects like yours from companies all over the world by buying stock in those companies and conserving energy. He is not.

Has Al Gore looked to green energy for his homes? It does not appear that he has.

He is using energy and damaging the environment. Compare the damage to the environment that he causes to the damage to the enviroment the above-average person causes.

I'll put it this way - which is better for the environment: 1) teleconferencing to California from his home-base in Tennessee; or 2) flying via commercial air to California and back, but purchasing carbon offsets; or 3) flying to California via private jet and back, and purchasing more carbon credits?

It seems to me the answer is pretty obvious. Eliminating wasteful pollution like this would make the need for carbon sinks, etc., much less. He seems to me to be causing an undue burden for one individual...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[DJL 235]

Sorry, that's a bunch of BS considering who he is. And I'm a Conservative, a Conservationist, and a Mechanical Engineer and Project Manager in the field of designing buildings and homes. Al Gore's house isn't a place to park the car and unwind around the TV set, it's a base of operations for all that Al Gore does. Now that's ONLY saying that it's difficult to make a comparison. The term "luxury" home usually only means that it's in a great location, it's big, and it has the word "luxury" on the marketing material. Most of those places are still made by the cheapest possible means and the first thing you cut is insulation and a quality building envelope, next you go for cheap heating a cooling. I wouldn't doubt that his house is guilty of all of that.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 3,075]

>Eliminating wasteful pollution like this would make the need for
>carbon sinks, etc., much less. He seems to me to be causing an
>undue burden for one individual...

Factories that build solar panels take huge amounts of energy. A shortsighted view would be that this is a huge waste of energy - solar panels are supposed to SAVE energy! And these things take gigawatt-hours of the stuff! What hypocritical idiots.

But once a solar panel is produced it pays its power back within 2 to 5 years, depending on how it's built. (Ironically most of that 'energy cost' is in the aluminum frame.) Most are warrantied from 20-30 years, but there is effectively no aging, so you can expect them to last longer than that barring catastrophes. So overall you get a 10x 'energy return' from the investment.

Likewise, Gore's flying about on his lecture circuits uses a lot of fuel. If through his lectures he can get serious reductions in CO2 emissions, the amount of fuel his jet uses will be insignificant in comparison. Now, if he can fly commercially, he's much better off in terms of his carbon footprint - modern jets get upwards of 60mpg per passenger. But having used both commercial jets and private jets to fly to company demos, meetings and trade shows, private jets can let you get twice as much done in the same amount of time. In my case it just means my company does slightly better overall - but in his case the added time could well mean a more effective use of lecture time and more CO2 reduction overall.

The effort to get us to a no-imported-oil, mostly-renewable-energy economy has been likened to a Manhattan Project, an incredibly expensive all-out effort with an equally incredible payoff. It's going to take a LOT of nonrenewable energy to get us there, which is one reason we have to start soon, while we still have it available. If Gore can get such an effort kicked off even a few years sooner, he will have done far more for the planet than he has harmed it. I hope he succeeds.

[lawrocket 3]

The article mentions that the Tennessee house is 10,000 square feet with twenty rooms and 8 bathrooms, another house is a scant 4,000 square feet, and no details on his third house.

I took this qeb quiz using Al Gore as an example: http://www.earthday.org/Footprint/index.asp#

I selected United States English, 51-65 Age, greater than 1,000,000 city (Nashville Metro is about 1.5 million), Atlanta Similar Weather, Male, and zip code 37233.

Food footprint:
1. Very often meat
2. Most food is processed more than 200 miles away
Goods footprint
3. Generates about the same amount of waste
Shelter footprint
4. I put 5 people - I don't know, so I went middle ground thinking 1/4 of the rooms would be occupied
5. 2500 square feet or greater home
6. Free-standing with runnign water
7. Yes for energy, (not with energy efficiency)
Mobility footprint
8. Zero miles on public transport each week
9. No motorbiking
10. More than 400 miles by car each week
11. Seldom bicycles, walks or uses animal power
12. 100 hours flying per year
13. 25-35 mpg for cars (I reckon his hybrid is offset by limousines)
14. Almost always drives with someone else

Result:
CATEGORY ACRES
FOOD 5.9
MOBILITY 8.4
SHELTER 4.4
GOODS/SERVICES 11.6
TOTAL FOOTPRINT 30

IN COMPARISON, THE AVERAGE ECOLOGICAL FOOTPRINT IN YOUR COUNTRY IS 24 ACRES PER PERSON.

WORLDWIDE, THERE EXIST 4.5 BIOLOGICALLY PRODUCTIVE ACRES PER PERSON.

IF EVERYONE LIVED LIKE YOU, WE WOULD NEED 6.8 PLANETS.

That says something, and I don't think it even takes into consideration the other homes - and he travels probably in excess of 20-30 hours per week via airplane.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

I understadn your points, Bill, and I think they make sense.

My issue is - can Al Gore do it more efficiently? If I can make court appearances via telephone, I reckon he can make guest appearances via web conference.

And the example that I cited about the previews of "An Inconvenient Truth" - don't you think that the previews could have been set up to deal with one coast at a time instead of going coast-to-coast-to-coast? The same message would get out. He'd accomplish the same thing, and he would have used 1/3 less energy in doing it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[dorbie 0]

So burning 20X the fuel in his own home somehow persuades others to consume less? Nonsense.

He's a hypocrite and a profligate energy hog. It has nothing to do with his V.P. role.

The heart of the issue is that he is not willing to alter his lifestyle in ways that he insistts everyone else must. That is the central issue, talk is cheap.

The return on investment in solar panels is clear. The rest of your post is less compelling and does not address the original point of the thread.

[dorbie 0]

Quote

Sorry, that's a bunch of BS considering who he is. And I'm a Conservative, a Conservationist, and a Mechanical Engineer and Project Manager in the field of designing buildings and homes. Al Gore's house isn't a place to park the car and unwind around the TV set, it's a base of operations for all that Al Gore does. Now that's ONLY saying that it's difficult to make a comparison. The term "luxury" home usually only means that it's in a great location, it's big, and it has the word "luxury" on the marketing material. Most of those places are still made by the cheapest possible means and the first thing you cut is insulation and a quality building envelope, next you go for cheap heating a cooling. I wouldn't doubt that his house is guilty of all of that.

Big deal, my degree is in Architecture including some specialized study in "buildings, climate and energy", and I worked in a CAD bureau that specialized in energy conservation in design decades before it was fashionable. NOTHING is stopping Gore from practicing what he preaches, you cite examples everyone is guilty of, but not everyone jets around chiding the rest of us. You're only highlighting that there can be costs involved, and clearly Gore is unwilling to bear those costs even as he seeks to impose them on the rest of society.

He's just one privileged hog telling the rest of us to consume less even as he increases his consumption.

[tomleone 0]

Does that account for the private jet? 1 trip to the oscars is worth how many of our cars total annual fuel?

Take risks not to escape life, but to prevent life from escaping ~ Author Unknown (but I wish I knew)

YouveGottaTryThis.com

[lawrocket 3]

You know, I'm forced to agree with you. Al Gore may, indeed, be purchasing tens of thousands of dollars worht of carbon offsets. Some of that money could be spent on improving insulation, getting efficient windows and doors, and an energy-efficient heating and cooling system.

Okay, so Gore's home is his operation's center. Why did his spokespeople confirm that he is not paying the few hundred extra dollars per year for green energy?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

how does one know what percentage of food is 200 miles away? In CA, most is somewhat nearby, but hard to say 100 versus 300 miles in the San Joaquin to SF.