billvon 3,070
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jarrodh 0
Clearly the best situation would be to do as warped, mnealtx, and others have said which would be to educate children as much as possible about the dangers of firearms combined with child safety locks, so we can prevent tragic events like this to keep occuring in the future.
I can recognize why pro gun activists would want to abolish certain restrictions on gun ownership but I dont understand why the Child Safety Lock laws are in question. Children at the age of three to five who chances are havent had/wont understand firearm education are the most vulnerable to loaded guns in a home. Those children are most safe from doing harm to themselves when guns are in a lockbox or have locks on them, and thats that.
I can recognize why pro gun activists would want to abolish certain restrictions on gun ownership but I dont understand why the Child Safety Lock laws are in question. Children at the age of three to five who chances are havent had/wont understand firearm education are the most vulnerable to loaded guns in a home. Those children are most safe from doing harm to themselves when guns are in a lockbox or have locks on them, and thats that.
2 BITS....4 BITS....6 BITS....A DOLLAR!....ALL FOR THE GATORS....STAND UP AND HOLLER!!!!
billvon 3,070
>There was a case a few years ago where a young girl who was a
>champion shooter watched her brother die because she could not get the
>trigger lock off her pistol in time to shoot the intruder.
A gun safe may have caused the same problem! Heck, if the gun was unloaded, she may not have been able to load it and fire in time to kill anyone. Clearly the solution is to leave multiple loaded weapons around the house whenever young children are present, so we can avoid tragedies like this in the future! And that's my modest proposal for the day.
>champion shooter watched her brother die because she could not get the
>trigger lock off her pistol in time to shoot the intruder.
A gun safe may have caused the same problem! Heck, if the gun was unloaded, she may not have been able to load it and fire in time to kill anyone. Clearly the solution is to leave multiple loaded weapons around the house whenever young children are present, so we can avoid tragedies like this in the future! And that's my modest proposal for the day.
DaVinci 0
QuoteAs far as I know it is for the "cooling off" period which in theory prevents people in a murderous rage from getting a gun instantly. In other words, to prevent crimes of passion.
Better pass a law for a waiting period on baseball bats and knives.
jarrodh 0
QuoteQuoteAs far as I know it is for the "cooling off" period which in theory prevents people in a murderous rage from getting a gun instantly. In other words, to prevent crimes of passion.
Better pass a law for a waiting period on baseball bats and knives.
Why? Baseball Bats are for the game of baseball and knives typically are for cooking (but can be used for recreational purposes as well)
Guns were created and are often used to do harm to another person with the intent to kill. Even in self defense this is the case(If a person breaks into your home and you shoot at them, it is with the intent to physically harm/kill them). True, they can be used recreationally as well, however at least with a baseball bat or a knife if someone attacks you then you have chance of defending yourself and surviving. With a gun someone can kill you in an instant from a considerably longer distance then you can with a knife or a bat, with no chance of self defense.
Bats and Knives dont need a waiting period. They dont have the same capacity for destruction/death as a firearm.
2 BITS....4 BITS....6 BITS....A DOLLAR!....ALL FOR THE GATORS....STAND UP AND HOLLER!!!!
billvon 3,070
>Why?
It's the standard reply. No matter what sort of issue concerning gun control is being discussed, the knee-jerk reply is always "oh, so why don't you ban knives, then? You can kill someone with a pencil. Better ban all pencils! Better ban everything!" It's sort of required if you are a certain level of gun proponent. They take away your NRA card if you don't say it, I think.
It's the standard reply. No matter what sort of issue concerning gun control is being discussed, the knee-jerk reply is always "oh, so why don't you ban knives, then? You can kill someone with a pencil. Better ban all pencils! Better ban everything!" It's sort of required if you are a certain level of gun proponent. They take away your NRA card if you don't say it, I think.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteSo the lock will win over prevention and education.
How about not having the weapon where a two year old could possibly get their hands on it?
There was a case a few years ago where a young girl who was a champion shooter watched her brother die because she could not get the trigger lock off her pistol in time to shoot the intruder.
It's a damn good thing she had a phone to call 911 with to report the murder huh?
I will try and find the story but if I am not mistaken she was harmed as well.
Oh, come on! Youve got to be kidding me. How can you in good conscience make a sweeping generalization that all child locks should be done away with because of one scenario with extraordinary circumstances.
%99.999 of the time the child in question will not be a competent marksman of any kind. If there was no child lock and the child was not a good shooter then they run the risk of shooting themselves and/or the person they were trying to save!
Since when should children be given the responsibility to defend a household with firearms anyway? As far as I am concerned minors should be taught to contact the police and their parents immediately in the event they sense danger, not to find the nearest pistol and start figuring out whom they are going to shoot.
Projecting again, I see...
You're making a sweeping generalization that all kids are going to play with a gun if they find one...
As for minors contacting the police, google "Merced pitchfork murders" and see what you get - forced storage laws KILLED those kids.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteAs far as I know it is for the "cooling off" period which in theory prevents people in a murderous rage from getting a gun instantly. In other words, to prevent crimes of passion.
Better pass a law for a waiting period on baseball bats and knives.
Why? Baseball Bats are for the game of baseball and knives typically are for cooking (but can be used for recreational purposes as well)
Guns were created and are often used to do harm to another person with the intent to kill. Even in self defense this is the case(If a person breaks into your home and you shoot at them, it is with the intent to physically harm/kill them). True, they can be used recreationally as well, however at least with a baseball bat or a knife if someone attacks you then you have chance of defending yourself and surviving. With a gun someone can kill you in an instant from a considerably longer distance then you can with a knife or a bat, with no chance of self defense.
Bats and Knives dont need a waiting period. They dont have the same capacity for destruction/death as a firearm.
And again, blame the tool for actions of the user.
Just an FYI: Guns were originally designed and created for hunting.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
mnealtx 0
Quote>Why?
It's the standard reply. No matter what sort of issue concerning gun control is being discussed, the knee-jerk reply is always "oh, so why don't you ban knives, then? You can kill someone with a pencil. Better ban all pencils! Better ban everything!" It's sort of required if you are a certain level of gun proponent. They take away your NRA card if you don't say it, I think.
Do they take away your Brady card if you don't say "It's for the children"?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Quote>There was a case a few years ago where a young girl who was a
>champion shooter watched her brother die because she could not get the
>trigger lock off her pistol in time to shoot the intruder.
A gun safe may have caused the same problem! Heck, if the gun was unloaded, she may not have been able to load it and fire in time to kill anyone. Clearly the solution is to leave multiple loaded weapons around the house whenever young children are present, so we can avoid tragedies like this in the future! And that's my modest proposal for the day.
Actually bill there are some excellent safes out there that are quick access.
Biometric, keypad, RFID etc.
QuoteQuoteQuoteAs far as I know it is for the "cooling off" period which in theory prevents people in a murderous rage from getting a gun instantly. In other words, to prevent crimes of passion.
Better pass a law for a waiting period on baseball bats and knives.
Why? Baseball Bats are for the game of baseball and knives typically are for cooking (but can be used for recreational purposes as well)
Guns were created and are often used to do harm to another person with the intent to kill. Even in self defense this is the case(If a person breaks into your home and you shoot at them, it is with the intent to physically harm/kill them). True, they can be used recreationally as well, however at least with a baseball bat or a knife if someone attacks you then you have chance of defending yourself and surviving. With a gun someone can kill you in an instant from a considerably longer distance then you can with a knife or a bat, with no chance of self defense.
Bats and Knives dont need a waiting period. They dont have the same capacity for destruction/death as a firearm.
Ok let me explain something to you, if someone is skilled or has a knife or a gun or a baseball bat or a garrotte, your chances of surving are esentially the same.
If you do not, or can not defend yourself you are dead.
Can it be any more simple?
No they just make them drink more Kool-Aid
jarrodh 0
QuoteYou're making a sweeping generalization that all kids are going to play with a gun if they find one...
Maybe not all kids, but a large enough amount do play with guns and end up killing themselves that it warrants this protection. Look at Billvons post before and see how many cases there were of children that found a gun and accidentally killed themselves. It is in a childs nature to explore, touch, and feel things, many of which are dngerous. You cant blame them though because their children, what you can do however is protect them. Hence the use of things like plasic protectors on outlets, child safety locks in cars, locks on cabinet doors which contain household cleaners/poisons, and fences around pools.
A gun safe or child proof lock is no different then any of the other protections above. The only difference I can see is that only gun locks create the controversy that people think their second amendment rights are being taken away when really it is just a precaution to prevent kids from hurting themselves.
2 BITS....4 BITS....6 BITS....A DOLLAR!....ALL FOR THE GATORS....STAND UP AND HOLLER!!!!
QuoteQuoteYou're making a sweeping generalization that all kids are going to play with a gun if they find one...
Maybe not all kids, but a large enough amount do play with guns and end up killing themselves that it warrants this protection. Look at Billvons post before and see how many cases there were of children that found a gun and accidentally killed themselves. It is in a childs nature to explore, touch, and feel things, many of which are dngerous. You cant blame them though because their children, what you can do however is protect them. Hence the use of things like plasic protectors on outlets, child safety locks in cars, locks on cabinet doors which contain household cleaners/poisons, and fences around pools.
A gun safe or child proof lock is no different then any of the other protections above. The only difference I can see is that only gun locks create the controversy that people think their second amendment rights are being taken away when really it is just a precaution to prevent kids from hurting themselves.
kallend 2,106
QuoteQuoteQuoteYou're making a sweeping generalization that all kids are going to play with a gun if they find one...
Maybe not all kids, but a large enough amount do play with guns and end up killing themselves that it warrants this protection. Look at Billvons post before and see how many cases there were of children that found a gun and accidentally killed themselves. It is in a childs nature to explore, touch, and feel things, many of which are dngerous. You cant blame them though because their children, what you can do however is protect them. Hence the use of things like plasic protectors on outlets, child safety locks in cars, locks on cabinet doors which contain household cleaners/poisons, and fences around pools.
A gun safe or child proof lock is no different then any of the other protections above. The only difference I can see is that only gun locks create the controversy that people think their second amendment rights are being taken away when really it is just a precaution to prevent kids from hurting themselves.
Interesting stats: www.med.umich.edu/1libr/yourchild/guns.htm
www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4845a1.htm
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
jm951 0
When I was a kid, there was a boy down the street who went to a friend's house and they were going to play army. One of them decided it would be cool to use his dad's loaded gun and wound up killing the boy. This kid lived 4 houses down from me. It really whacked his mom out and she was never the same. All this because somebody didn't keep firearms unloaded and out of the reach of children.
I don't advocate locks of any kind. I DO emphasize being a responsible adult gun owners. I've always had guns around my house. My kids have all gone out shooting with me and learned gun safety at an early age. It took the "mystery" element away and to this day, my sons both love to shoot and are very safe with firearms. This isn't an issue about the presence of guns, but the responsibility of adults.
I don't advocate locks of any kind. I DO emphasize being a responsible adult gun owners. I've always had guns around my house. My kids have all gone out shooting with me and learned gun safety at an early age. It took the "mystery" element away and to this day, my sons both love to shoot and are very safe with firearms. This isn't an issue about the presence of guns, but the responsibility of adults.
DaVinci 0
QuoteWhy? Baseball Bats are for the game of baseball and knives typically are for cooking (but can be used for recreational purposes as well)
Well you claimed that a three day cooling off period will prevent deaths. Sinple fact is that crimes of passion are carried out everyday by people that do not use a gun.
In fact a knife can be MORE deadly than a gun in many cases.
QuoteWith a gun someone can kill you in an instant from a considerably longer distance then you can with a knife or a bat, with no chance of self defense.
Unless YOU have the gun.
QuoteBats and Knives dont need a waiting period. They dont have the same capacity for destruction/death as a firearm.
Total BS. Cain killed Abel with a rock.
David killed Goliath with a slingshot.
The Romans killed with swords.
American Indians killed with Arrows.
You claim acts of passion only use guns and that is just BS.
DaVinci 0
QuoteIt's the standard reply. No matter what sort of issue concerning gun control is being discussed, the knee-jerk reply is always "oh, so why don't you ban knives, then?
No Bill...He claimed that a 3 day waiting period would stop crimes of passion. Just not true. A person who really wanted to kill someone would use any weapon around. Cain killed with a rock.
QuoteIt's sort of required if you are a certain level of gun proponent. They take away your NRA card if you don't say it, I think.
Just like the Anti gun crowd all think a loaded gun will get up and kill all on its own? Or maybe mind control the normally great guy to become a crazed killer?
I have LOADED guns in my house...Not one has ever killed anyone...Not one has ever tried to sneak out at night to go on a killing spree.
I bet my GF will be alive tomorrow morring as well.
Oh, and I am not even a member of the NRA....Nice try though.
kallend 2,106
QuoteQuote
I have LOADED guns in my house....
What are you so scared of that you feel the need for this?...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteQuote
I have LOADED guns in my house....
What are you so scared of that you feel the need for this?
Why are you so scared of a malfunction that you have a reserve parachute? Why are you so scared of a fire that you have an extinguisher in the house?
Preparedness != paranoiaMike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
That's even better! Sadly some people are not smart enough to do this. And while they have a right to kill themselves, they do not have the right to allow their kids to die from their negligence.
Nov 2006 - Timothy Jerome Addison was charged with one count of being a felon in possession of a firearm after his two-year-old son Timberlan found a loaded 9mm in the couch while playing and fatally shot himself in the chest.
Aug 2005 - MONTGOMERY CITY, Missouri -- A six-year-old girl playing with her father's gun accidentally shot and killed her two-year-old brother at their home, authorities said. Chase Yordt was killed Sunday morning.
Jan 2007 - A 3-year-old boy died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound Friday afternoon at his home in a northeast Las Vegas neighborhood . . . "It's terrifying. I have a 3-year-old, and I can't imagine anyone with a 3-year-old stupid enough to have a gun in their house not in a lock box," Willoughby said.
May 2006 - The three-year-old son of a St. Charles Parish correctional officer died after he accidentally shot himself in the head while playing with his father's gun Tuesday morning. Deputies said the death was an accident and they are not charging his father, who was distraught and asked that others learn from his tragedy and make sure to keep guns away from children.
Jan 2004 - The 26 year-old father and his three-year old son were in the father's pickup truck in the Miami area. On the way home, the father stopped at a friend's house for a few minutes. The driver's side door was open and the father was standing at the front door of the house, a few feet away, speaking with his friend. The three year-old retrieved a loaded handgun from the center console and shot himself in the head and died the next day.
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