warpedskydiver 0 #26 February 27, 2007 I was looking at the testimony. Seems that the law is written so that if the officer says something is laful it is. Like I said re-read the testimony. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #27 February 27, 2007 QuoteI was looking at the testimony. Seems that the law is written so that if the officer says something is laful it is. Like I said re-read the testimony. I read it. Seemed to me to be a very detailed recounting of the facts by a policeman and differing accounts by the two remaining plaintiffs, which had to be discounted at times due to differnces. Not to mention, inconsistencies in the facts between investigators. I'm no lawyer and certainly not a judge, so I am thankful there are people like you who apparently know more about the law than most people who get paid to know about the law, so you can bring such injustices as this to light. Keep us posted on your legal victories! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #28 February 27, 2007 Disgraceful, there was video of this. It was murder plain & simple. [edit to say this was a different incident I was recalling] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #29 February 27, 2007 Quotethen shot the other soldier twice in the chest as he was fleeing. The guy was running backwards? Dorbie, where's the video? Posted somewhere?"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #30 February 27, 2007 QuoteQuotethen shot the other soldier twice in the chest as he was fleeing. The guy was running backwards? Dorbie, where's the video? Posted somewhere? Sorry I have confused two incidents. Specifically I was recalling the shooting of Elio Carrion, another soldier (edit: Air Force?) presenting no threat who was shot by a police officer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #31 February 27, 2007 Quotehttp://www.ncmd.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Jul06/04cv151moo.pdf Read the PDF the Officer is lying like a rug. He pulled his weapon and killed a man lying on the ground that had been sprayed with OC, then shot the other soldier twice in the chest as he was fleeing. The officer should face murder and attempted murder charges. If the cop really did know it was a military exercise, why would he shoot two soldiers? What's the motivation? Somehow it seems so much more probable that he thought he was in a shitty situation with well armed criminals. Having an excessive force 'charge' is hardly proof, either. I imagine quite a few cops get accused of that. Even if he tried to beautify the facts afterwards to minimize his role in the event, it sounds like the unfortunate consequence of playing war games in the civilian world. Training accidents happen within bases as well. Up until the occupation phase, Iraq claimed fewer lives than training does every year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #32 February 28, 2007 Is there a law against having a rilfe in a case? Is there a law against having a rilfe broken down in a backpack? Is there a law that says all people found with a weapon in a bag shall be shot? Damn so many of you think there was no wrong done. Why is the cops testimony so different than the living soldier and the civilians? All that I see here is that the attorney for the defendant was better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #33 February 28, 2007 QuoteIs there a law against having a rilfe in a case? Is there a law against having a rilfe broken down in a backpack? Is there a law that says all people found with a weapon in a bag shall be shot? Damn so many of you think there was no wrong done. Why is the cops testimony so different than the living soldier and the civilians? All that I see here is that the attorney for the defendant was better. All I see here is someone who wants to believe that the cop is at fault so badly that he is ignoring evidence, court rulings, and even facts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #34 February 28, 2007 Butler said Tomeny came toward him, forcing him to push the soldier with one hand and draw his gun with the other. Butler said he holstered his gun, removed his chemical spray and began to spray Tomeny. *** dude this doesnt sound too likely at all..... backing up with weapon in hand... then change his mind and holster it...then grab non lethal spray....use it....then redraw the wep...... I call bullshit on this one RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #35 February 28, 2007 It was clearly established - by the Army - that they did not notify local authorities. Quote The local authorities have a schedule for the entire year of when classes will be going on, so even if that call isn't made they still know it's going to happen. This has been going on for many years. It's not like we just showed up one day in '02 and said "let's use this county for the first time."History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #36 February 28, 2007 QuoteIt was clearly established - by the Army - that they did not notify local authorities. Quote The local authorities have a schedule for the entire year of when classes will be going on, so even if that call isn't made they still know it's going to happen. This has been going on for many years. It's not like we just showed up one day in '02 and said "let's use this county for the first time." So, you're saying that the Army Special Operations Command Investigator is lying? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #37 February 28, 2007 Johnny do you often like to try and get a guy to make a statement against his chain of command? Not nice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #38 February 28, 2007 QuoteJohnny do you often like to try and get a guy to make a statement against his chain of command? Not nice ??? I'm not even sure what that means. All parties involved admit that the local authorities were not notified, yet you still refuse to believe it. You're saying the Army is lying? Maybe I'm missing something here, because the blatant disregard of the facts is just mind boggling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #39 February 28, 2007 Dude do you really think that the US ARMY never told them nor ever published a schedule to be disseminated to the various authorities? These excersises have been going virtually non stop since the 1960's Nothing has really changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #40 February 28, 2007 QuoteDude do you really think that the US ARMY never told them nor ever published a schedule to be disseminated to the various authorities? . YES! - and the reason is they said so. Holy crap, you're the one who even posted it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #41 February 28, 2007 Yes and I can point out that somehow we should all be expected to believe that after all those years, suddenly the police thought that RS was never going to occur again. Holy shit. If you see school buses every year for the last 40 years, during the school year, do you expect to see school buses during this school year? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #42 February 28, 2007 Yes it is somebody's fault other than the guy who shot the unarmed men. happy now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #43 February 28, 2007 QuoteYes and I can point out that somehow we should all be expected to believe that after all those years, suddenly the police thought that RS was never going to occur again. Holy shit. If you see school buses every year for the last 40 years, during the school year, do you expect to see school buses during this school year? First, you are assuming that everyone is supposed to be aware of the exercise. The officer involved moved there from elsewhere - also something you posted - so he didn't have the benefit of experience with that particular situation. Second, there are some people in the world who, in the face of all facts contrary, can not be brought to reason. Talking to such people is a complete waste of time and brain matter. With that, I'm out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #44 February 28, 2007 QuoteYes and I can point out that somehow we should all be expected to believe that after all those years, suddenly the police thought that RS was never going to occur again. Is it always held within the same dates? Has there ever been a scenario where non-participants tried to get out of a ticket/offence etc by claiming to be part of the exercise? Just the fact that it has been going on for years is not enough communication, which is quite evident from what happened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #45 February 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteYes and I can point out that somehow we should all be expected to believe that after all those years, suddenly the police thought that RS was never going to occur again. Is it always held within the same dates? Has there ever been a scenario where non-participants tried to get out of a ticket/offence etc by claiming to be part of the exercise? Just the fact that it has been going on for years is not enough communication, which is quite evident from what happened. Robin Sage has been ongoing at least since 1978 (when I went through) I'm sure the dates vary. I was almost pulled over by a deputy during my exercise, but he could not outrun the cadilac I was hitching a ride in. The black guy that was driving me stopped at a bar at 2 AM and wanted me to go in with him. I thought it best for this white guy with an M-16 to not enter an all black bar. I waited in the car. Seriously, as I said earlier. I'm surprised it took as long as it did before a major SNAFU happened. Especially with the turnover rate of some local deputies. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #46 February 28, 2007 It's a shame the dash cam tape had been damaged to the point where it was useless. You know the one that department has on every patrol car and is activated by hitting the lights? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #47 February 28, 2007 QuoteYes it is somebody's fault other than the guy who shot the unarmed men. happy now? friendly fire doesn't always have a party at fault. And what is gained by assigning blame? Best thing is to reduce chances of it happening again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #48 February 28, 2007 Agreed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #49 February 28, 2007 So, you're saying that the Army Special Operations Command Investigator is lying?Quote I never said that, sorry, looking back at my post I didn't state my point clearly enough. I am not arguing that in this particular class this police station was overlooked, what I am saying is that regardless of whether or not the indiviual phone call was made to this station all the stations within the limits of the exercise will have a calender of the exercise dates for the entire year. And the police station should have taken the initiative to make mention of it in a daily briefing. There were a lot of little things that all snowballed into one big episode, and people on both sides are at fault, however the police know this goes on in there jurisdiction, they have an annual schedule, they needed to be more proactive. And as for your statement about one man making short work of three Green Berets, you have one man who thinks he is fighting for his life against three men who think they are in a scenario and unarmed. People do amazing things when they think their life is about to end, had the three students known they were abou tto be fired on I guarantee this would've ended a lot worse for that deputy. One last note, they weren't Green Berets, yet.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zipp0 1 #50 February 28, 2007 QuoteIs there a law against having a rilfe in a case? Is there a law against having a rilfe broken down in a backpack? In the back seat of a car? Hell yes there are laws. In most states that is a concealed weapon unless it is unloaded and in the trunk with the ammo secured elsewhere in the vehicle. Why do these guys need to roam the countryside with M16's in the back seat? I admit I didn't have the time to read all this, but it just sounds like a bad idea. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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JohnnyD 0 #36 February 28, 2007 QuoteIt was clearly established - by the Army - that they did not notify local authorities. Quote The local authorities have a schedule for the entire year of when classes will be going on, so even if that call isn't made they still know it's going to happen. This has been going on for many years. It's not like we just showed up one day in '02 and said "let's use this county for the first time." So, you're saying that the Army Special Operations Command Investigator is lying? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #37 February 28, 2007 Johnny do you often like to try and get a guy to make a statement against his chain of command? Not nice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #38 February 28, 2007 QuoteJohnny do you often like to try and get a guy to make a statement against his chain of command? Not nice ??? I'm not even sure what that means. All parties involved admit that the local authorities were not notified, yet you still refuse to believe it. You're saying the Army is lying? Maybe I'm missing something here, because the blatant disregard of the facts is just mind boggling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #39 February 28, 2007 Dude do you really think that the US ARMY never told them nor ever published a schedule to be disseminated to the various authorities? These excersises have been going virtually non stop since the 1960's Nothing has really changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #40 February 28, 2007 QuoteDude do you really think that the US ARMY never told them nor ever published a schedule to be disseminated to the various authorities? . YES! - and the reason is they said so. Holy crap, you're the one who even posted it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #41 February 28, 2007 Yes and I can point out that somehow we should all be expected to believe that after all those years, suddenly the police thought that RS was never going to occur again. Holy shit. If you see school buses every year for the last 40 years, during the school year, do you expect to see school buses during this school year? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #42 February 28, 2007 Yes it is somebody's fault other than the guy who shot the unarmed men. happy now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #43 February 28, 2007 QuoteYes and I can point out that somehow we should all be expected to believe that after all those years, suddenly the police thought that RS was never going to occur again. Holy shit. If you see school buses every year for the last 40 years, during the school year, do you expect to see school buses during this school year? First, you are assuming that everyone is supposed to be aware of the exercise. The officer involved moved there from elsewhere - also something you posted - so he didn't have the benefit of experience with that particular situation. Second, there are some people in the world who, in the face of all facts contrary, can not be brought to reason. Talking to such people is a complete waste of time and brain matter. With that, I'm out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #44 February 28, 2007 QuoteYes and I can point out that somehow we should all be expected to believe that after all those years, suddenly the police thought that RS was never going to occur again. Is it always held within the same dates? Has there ever been a scenario where non-participants tried to get out of a ticket/offence etc by claiming to be part of the exercise? Just the fact that it has been going on for years is not enough communication, which is quite evident from what happened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #45 February 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteYes and I can point out that somehow we should all be expected to believe that after all those years, suddenly the police thought that RS was never going to occur again. Is it always held within the same dates? Has there ever been a scenario where non-participants tried to get out of a ticket/offence etc by claiming to be part of the exercise? Just the fact that it has been going on for years is not enough communication, which is quite evident from what happened. Robin Sage has been ongoing at least since 1978 (when I went through) I'm sure the dates vary. I was almost pulled over by a deputy during my exercise, but he could not outrun the cadilac I was hitching a ride in. The black guy that was driving me stopped at a bar at 2 AM and wanted me to go in with him. I thought it best for this white guy with an M-16 to not enter an all black bar. I waited in the car. Seriously, as I said earlier. I'm surprised it took as long as it did before a major SNAFU happened. Especially with the turnover rate of some local deputies. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #46 February 28, 2007 It's a shame the dash cam tape had been damaged to the point where it was useless. You know the one that department has on every patrol car and is activated by hitting the lights? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #47 February 28, 2007 QuoteYes it is somebody's fault other than the guy who shot the unarmed men. happy now? friendly fire doesn't always have a party at fault. And what is gained by assigning blame? Best thing is to reduce chances of it happening again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #48 February 28, 2007 Agreed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #49 February 28, 2007 So, you're saying that the Army Special Operations Command Investigator is lying?Quote I never said that, sorry, looking back at my post I didn't state my point clearly enough. I am not arguing that in this particular class this police station was overlooked, what I am saying is that regardless of whether or not the indiviual phone call was made to this station all the stations within the limits of the exercise will have a calender of the exercise dates for the entire year. And the police station should have taken the initiative to make mention of it in a daily briefing. There were a lot of little things that all snowballed into one big episode, and people on both sides are at fault, however the police know this goes on in there jurisdiction, they have an annual schedule, they needed to be more proactive. And as for your statement about one man making short work of three Green Berets, you have one man who thinks he is fighting for his life against three men who think they are in a scenario and unarmed. People do amazing things when they think their life is about to end, had the three students known they were abou tto be fired on I guarantee this would've ended a lot worse for that deputy. One last note, they weren't Green Berets, yet.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zipp0 1 #50 February 28, 2007 QuoteIs there a law against having a rilfe in a case? Is there a law against having a rilfe broken down in a backpack? In the back seat of a car? Hell yes there are laws. In most states that is a concealed weapon unless it is unloaded and in the trunk with the ammo secured elsewhere in the vehicle. Why do these guys need to roam the countryside with M16's in the back seat? I admit I didn't have the time to read all this, but it just sounds like a bad idea. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
warpedskydiver 0 #37 February 28, 2007 Johnny do you often like to try and get a guy to make a statement against his chain of command? Not nice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #38 February 28, 2007 QuoteJohnny do you often like to try and get a guy to make a statement against his chain of command? Not nice ??? I'm not even sure what that means. All parties involved admit that the local authorities were not notified, yet you still refuse to believe it. You're saying the Army is lying? Maybe I'm missing something here, because the blatant disregard of the facts is just mind boggling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #39 February 28, 2007 Dude do you really think that the US ARMY never told them nor ever published a schedule to be disseminated to the various authorities? These excersises have been going virtually non stop since the 1960's Nothing has really changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #40 February 28, 2007 QuoteDude do you really think that the US ARMY never told them nor ever published a schedule to be disseminated to the various authorities? . YES! - and the reason is they said so. Holy crap, you're the one who even posted it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #41 February 28, 2007 Yes and I can point out that somehow we should all be expected to believe that after all those years, suddenly the police thought that RS was never going to occur again. Holy shit. If you see school buses every year for the last 40 years, during the school year, do you expect to see school buses during this school year? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #42 February 28, 2007 Yes it is somebody's fault other than the guy who shot the unarmed men. happy now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #43 February 28, 2007 QuoteYes and I can point out that somehow we should all be expected to believe that after all those years, suddenly the police thought that RS was never going to occur again. Holy shit. If you see school buses every year for the last 40 years, during the school year, do you expect to see school buses during this school year? First, you are assuming that everyone is supposed to be aware of the exercise. The officer involved moved there from elsewhere - also something you posted - so he didn't have the benefit of experience with that particular situation. Second, there are some people in the world who, in the face of all facts contrary, can not be brought to reason. Talking to such people is a complete waste of time and brain matter. With that, I'm out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #44 February 28, 2007 QuoteYes and I can point out that somehow we should all be expected to believe that after all those years, suddenly the police thought that RS was never going to occur again. Is it always held within the same dates? Has there ever been a scenario where non-participants tried to get out of a ticket/offence etc by claiming to be part of the exercise? Just the fact that it has been going on for years is not enough communication, which is quite evident from what happened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #45 February 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteYes and I can point out that somehow we should all be expected to believe that after all those years, suddenly the police thought that RS was never going to occur again. Is it always held within the same dates? Has there ever been a scenario where non-participants tried to get out of a ticket/offence etc by claiming to be part of the exercise? Just the fact that it has been going on for years is not enough communication, which is quite evident from what happened. Robin Sage has been ongoing at least since 1978 (when I went through) I'm sure the dates vary. I was almost pulled over by a deputy during my exercise, but he could not outrun the cadilac I was hitching a ride in. The black guy that was driving me stopped at a bar at 2 AM and wanted me to go in with him. I thought it best for this white guy with an M-16 to not enter an all black bar. I waited in the car. Seriously, as I said earlier. I'm surprised it took as long as it did before a major SNAFU happened. Especially with the turnover rate of some local deputies. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #46 February 28, 2007 It's a shame the dash cam tape had been damaged to the point where it was useless. You know the one that department has on every patrol car and is activated by hitting the lights? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #47 February 28, 2007 QuoteYes it is somebody's fault other than the guy who shot the unarmed men. happy now? friendly fire doesn't always have a party at fault. And what is gained by assigning blame? Best thing is to reduce chances of it happening again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #48 February 28, 2007 Agreed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #49 February 28, 2007 So, you're saying that the Army Special Operations Command Investigator is lying?Quote I never said that, sorry, looking back at my post I didn't state my point clearly enough. I am not arguing that in this particular class this police station was overlooked, what I am saying is that regardless of whether or not the indiviual phone call was made to this station all the stations within the limits of the exercise will have a calender of the exercise dates for the entire year. And the police station should have taken the initiative to make mention of it in a daily briefing. There were a lot of little things that all snowballed into one big episode, and people on both sides are at fault, however the police know this goes on in there jurisdiction, they have an annual schedule, they needed to be more proactive. And as for your statement about one man making short work of three Green Berets, you have one man who thinks he is fighting for his life against three men who think they are in a scenario and unarmed. People do amazing things when they think their life is about to end, had the three students known they were abou tto be fired on I guarantee this would've ended a lot worse for that deputy. One last note, they weren't Green Berets, yet.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zipp0 1 #50 February 28, 2007 QuoteIs there a law against having a rilfe in a case? Is there a law against having a rilfe broken down in a backpack? In the back seat of a car? Hell yes there are laws. In most states that is a concealed weapon unless it is unloaded and in the trunk with the ammo secured elsewhere in the vehicle. Why do these guys need to roam the countryside with M16's in the back seat? I admit I didn't have the time to read all this, but it just sounds like a bad idea. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Zipp0 1 #50 February 28, 2007 QuoteIs there a law against having a rilfe in a case? Is there a law against having a rilfe broken down in a backpack? In the back seat of a car? Hell yes there are laws. In most states that is a concealed weapon unless it is unloaded and in the trunk with the ammo secured elsewhere in the vehicle. Why do these guys need to roam the countryside with M16's in the back seat? I admit I didn't have the time to read all this, but it just sounds like a bad idea. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
