narcimund 0 #101 March 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteI'm waiting for Narcimund to say something about the rampant misogyny... He seems to be giving this a pass. The "who" in this case, seems to trump the un-PC labels being used. You guys are a HOOT! First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #102 March 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteI'm waiting for Narcimund to say something about the rampant misogyny... mi·sog·y·ny –noun hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women. Women is plural. Coulter is a woman, singular. Thank God. Which, of course, is why he was speaking about it in the HRC thread... nice try at a misdirect, though...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #103 March 7, 2007 QuoteWhich, of course, is why he was speaking about it in the HRC thread... nice try at a misdirect, though... WHOOOOSH!!!! You ESPECIALLY are a hoot. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #104 March 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhich, of course, is why he was speaking about it in the HRC thread... nice try at a misdirect, though... WHOOOOSH!!!! You ESPECIALLY are a hoot. I *do* try... it's nice to be appreciated!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #105 March 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteI'm waiting for Narcimund to say something about the rampant misogyny... mi·sog·y·ny –noun hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women. Women is plural. Coulter is a woman, singular. Thank God. I think hatred of a particular woman would not be "Misogyny". That would be hatred of women in general, not in the specific. So, Narcimund is incorrect in saying that calling Hillary Rotten or Ann Coulter a bitch is an example of misogyny.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #106 March 7, 2007 Narcimund - in two separate Hillary threads QuoteI really have no opinion or interest in the person you keep calling a "bitch". But I'm fascinated by the misogyny. Quote"Bitch" is a word only applied to women -- therefore I'm going to call it a sexist term. Can you put your opinion in gender-neutral language? If not, I'll call it a sexist reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #107 March 7, 2007 QuoteNarcimund - in two separate Hillary threads QuoteI really have no opinion or interest in the person you keep calling a "bitch". But I'm fascinated by the misogyny. Quote"Bitch" is a word only applied to women -- therefore I'm going to call it a sexist term. Can you put your opinion in gender-neutral language? If not, I'll call it a sexist reason. I'm all warm and cuddly that you guys are tracking me so closely. I'm truly loved. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #108 March 7, 2007 QuoteI think hatred of a particular woman would not be "Misogyny". That would be hatred of women in general, not in the specific. So, Narcimund is incorrect in saying that calling Hillary Rotten or Ann Coulter a bitch is an example of misogyny. So if calling one woman a "bitch" or "cunt" doesn't indicate misogyny, do you also believe that calling one black man a "nigger" doesn't indicate racism? First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #109 March 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteI think hatred of a particular woman would not be "Misogyny". That would be hatred of women in general, not in the specific. So, Narcimund is incorrect in saying that calling Hillary Rotten or Ann Coulter a bitch is an example of misogyny. So if calling one woman a "bitch" or "cunt" doesn't indicate misogyny, do you also believe that calling one black man a "nigger" doesn't indicate racism? I understand your point, but I just want to clarify that I really, honestly, only think that the word "cunt" applies to Ann Coulter. I simply cannot think of one other person on this Earth who deserves that term. If I can think up a word that would be worse I'd gladly swap out the "C" word for it. To date, all I can come up with is to preface it with the word "Whadafucking". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #110 March 7, 2007 I just farted.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #111 March 7, 2007 QuoteI just farted. LMAO Maybe smellivision is a bad idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #112 March 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteI think hatred of a particular woman would not be "Misogyny". That would be hatred of women in general, not in the specific. So, Narcimund is incorrect in saying that calling Hillary Rotten or Ann Coulter a bitch is an example of misogyny. So if calling one woman a "bitch" or "cunt" doesn't indicate misogyny, do you also believe that calling one black man a "nigger" doesn't indicate racism? Depending on why a person wanted to insult a black man, it would be an indicator that it might well be true, but not a sufficient condition.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #113 March 7, 2007 QuoteDepending on why a person wanted to insult a black man, it would be an indicator that it might well be true, but not a sufficient condition. It's hard for me to imagine a situation in which a white person can call a black person a "nigger" without it being sufficient to demonstrate racism. Likewise it's hard for me to imagine a situation in which a man can call a woman a "cunt" without it being sufficient to demonstrate misogyny. Maybe you've got an example in mind. Ann Coulter apparently thinks a straight person calling someone a "faggot" isn't a statement about their sexual orientation so maybe language is more flexible than I give it credit for. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #114 March 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteDepending on why a person wanted to insult a black man, it would be an indicator that it might well be true, but not a sufficient condition. It's hard for me to imagine a situation in which a white person can call a black person a "nigger" without it being sufficient to demonstrate racism. Likewise it's hard for me to imagine a situation in which a man can call a woman a "cunt" without it being sufficient to demonstrate misogyny. Maybe you've got an example in mind. Ann Coulter apparently thinks a straight person calling someone a "faggot" isn't a statement about their sexual orientation so maybe language is more flexible than I give it credit for. I think the way people in the real/imperfect/mean world do use language very flexibly, and to accomplish different things. A person may use the word nigger because they are a black comedian and it is apparently a term of endearment in that circumstance. A non-black person may use the word nigger because the extreme negative stigma that most attach to the word hasn't attached itself in their culture, or they may like to use it because blacks use it - 'so why shouldn't I'. A person may use the word nigger or cunt because it is a way of expressing a degree of anger toward that particular person because of something that particular person did that few other words can do. If you really want to hurt a person and don't care what they'll think of you in the future, why hold back the words you use, ya know? In the past, didn't the word faggot not have the extreme negative connotation that it now has? I wonder about that as applied to the English, where fag is a cigarette. This communication thing is actually working lately, don't you think?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #115 March 8, 2007 Your examples all dance beautifully -- very distracting and irrelevant. Yes, there are conceivable ways a black person could use the word nigger in a non-racist way, but that's not analogous. Coulter is not a faggot (presumably) so calling someone else one is clearly in the realm of unkindness. Likewise, the people calling her and Clinton "cunt" are men (presumably) so they can't use the affiliate-group excuse. They can't say, "We're from the same group so we can use the derogatory versions of our group's names in kindness and jest." They just can't do that. Sorry. And why bring up old meanings of words that have changed over decades? That's just plain irrelevant (and I bet you knew that.) "Cunt" was a nasty insult last year and probably will be next year too. In 20 or 100 years if it changes to mean something completely different, go ahead and justify its use with your "faggot" example. For now you're just being disingenuous. And that's why I decided communication with you is impossible which is why I'm writing this post for the audience, not you. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #116 March 8, 2007 QuoteYour examples all dance beautifully -- very distracting and irrelevant. Yes, there are conceivable ways a black person could use the word nigger in a non-racist way, but that's not analogous. Coulter is not a faggot (presumably) so calling someone else one is clearly in the realm of unkindness. Likewise, the people calling her and Clinton "cunt" are men (presumably) so they can't use the affiliate-group excuse. They can't say, "We're from the same group so we can use the derogatory versions of our group's names in kindness and jest." They just can't do that. Sorry. And why bring up old meanings of words that have changed over decades? That's just plain irrelevant (and I bet you knew that.) "Cunt" was a nasty insult last year and probably will be next year too. In 20 or 100 years if it changes to mean something completely different, go ahead and justify its use with your "faggot" example. For now you're just being disingenuous. Many people do not accept the notion that only "affiliate-group" members should be allowed to use such words without the same conclusion being made about the person saying it. This means that condemnation of all that use the word is in order, instead of continuing tolerance of the word within the "affiliate group". I think a white comedian should be able to use the same words in the same way that a black comedian can, and should get the same reception from that "affiliated group". Until that "affiliated group" doesn't tolerate it from their own, then I say their complaint is not reasonable. Of course, as you say, they just can't do that, but I think they should be able to. Do you agree? Do gays use the same words within their "affiliated group" without condemnation? Do you think it should be that way? If a person uses the word cunt to describe a woman they hate, or nigger to describe a black they hate, they certainly are likely to be judged a racist or misogynist. It would be nice if everyone chose to not use the most hurtful words to express their level of anger/hatred, but I don't think it is reasonable to say that anyone using the words against one individual has demonstrated the same feelings toward all. The previous meanings, or more precisely, the previous connotation of words is certainly relevant, at least for the word nigger. What about the question I asked about previous use of the word faggot? You are the one that asked if there are reasons why the use of such words shouldn't always mean a person is a racist, etc, and I offered some. I agree the changing connotation explanation doesn't apply to the word cunt, but to others I think it can be quite valid. Until you claim to read minds, don't assert to know what I think ("being disingenuous"). None of this is intended to excuse what Coulter said, just to answer your earlier, much broader question. QuoteAnd that's why I decided communication with you is impossible which is why I'm writing this post for the audience, not you. That is a distinction without a difference. You often make posts that contain not so subtle insults with no other content. Sometimes I'm guilty of that also, but I do try to avoid it. Lately the communication vs insult ration has been high, I think we're all better of if it stays that way.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
