nathaniel 0 #26 March 14, 2007 Quote Do you really thing that a "realistic paper backup" would prevent a meltdown in the US economy after an EMP? Optical media sounds more promising to me. Blu ray, HD DVD, DVD, CD to us ordinary folk. I've worked for banks where most / all the important data was put on optical media in addition to backup tapes. Others replicate literally to the other sides of the planet. Archival is a serious business, it is not safe to assume that others are not on top of it because it may be fresh to you.My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 41 #27 March 14, 2007 QuoteThats the big issue I have. If we ended up going to a cashless world, then Mastercard and Visa would have all the power in there hands. They are only charging 3% right now because they have to stay competitive with cash. If they win the battle, they have no reason not to raise that percentage up to 7% or so If we eliminated cash, the governement would regulate Mastercard and Visa and we'd see them raise that percentage up to 50% "Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #28 March 14, 2007 This can never be allowed to happen. What about yard sales and flea market type sales? Why should you be forced to pay a tribute to VISA to spend your hard earned dollar (or Frank/Pound/Deutchmark)? In the USA there would be currency printed by underground organizations to use for illicit and private sales. Imagine the chaos that would cause. Yes, I use debit for almost everything, but I did make a pledge to try to use more cash. I spend less when I see it in cash. Debit is like play money. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #29 March 14, 2007 QuoteMany localities have even criminalized carrying large amounts of cash, and show no signs of indexing for inflation. Are you sure of that? Do you really mean simple possession per se? I mean, without being in direct conjunction with, say, money laundering, or tax evasion, or a drug dealing or smuggling operation or something like that? Just mere possession? I'm not saying you're wrong, since I haven't researched it (yet), but at first blush my informed instinct would be that any such local ordinance (or state statute) would be unconstitutional. Do you happen to have any cites to laws or even just specific localities? This is really just professional curiosity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #30 March 14, 2007 Quote In the USA there would be currency printed by underground organizations to use for illicit and private sales. Imagine the chaos that would cause. We already have it, and it doesn't cause that much chaos. Coke points, Marlboro points or whatever they were called, WoW Gold, air miles, hotel points and so on . Basically any transferable or semi-transferable quantity / entity that can be exchanged for goods, and which doesn't have too much intrinsic value amounts to a currency.My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sutton 0 #31 March 14, 2007 QuoteQuoteMany localities have even criminalized carrying large amounts of cash, and show no signs of indexing for inflation. Are you sure of that? Do you really mean simple possession per se? I mean, without being in direct conjunction with, say, money laundering, or tax evasion, or a drug dealing or smuggling operation or something like that? Just mere possession? I'm not saying you're wrong, since I haven't researched it (yet), but at first blush my informed instinct would be that any such local ordinance (or state statute) would be unconstitutional. Do you happen to have any cites to laws or even just specific localities? This is really just professional curiosity. I agree, what happened to Innocent til proven guilty?-Sutton Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #32 March 14, 2007 QuoteThis can never be allowed to happen. What about yard sales and flea market type sales? Why should you be forced to pay a tribute to VISA to spend your hard earned dollar (or Frank/Pound/Deutchmark)? And the government. The coming universal sales tax (just .1% to start!) would be a _lot_ more enforceable in an environment where all transactions were electronic. People would even be paying the tax on their illegal drug purchases. Quote In the USA there would be currency printed by underground organizations to use for illicit and private sales. Imagine the chaos that would cause. Gold would be more stable than the US Dollar which is worth what the government makes it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #33 March 14, 2007 Quote I agree, what happened to Innocent til proven guilty? RICO and the War On Some Drugs. That organized crime.... er drugs... are such a horrible threat to our way of life that abridgement of liberties is justified. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #34 March 14, 2007 Quote "Verboten" spending could get sticky. where exactly would you swipe your card at the titty bar? "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #35 March 14, 2007 >Do you really thing that a "realistic paper backup" would prevent a >meltdown in the US economy after an EMP? Yes. Our economy worked that way in the 1940's, and it worked just fine. It would surely not be as rapid - you wouldn't be able to sell $60,000 worth of stock and have the money within 90 seconds - but would work to support an economy. >Hardening the systems might help, but have you any realistic expectations >that the investment in hardening will happen? Don't think the stock market >would crash, perhaps fall more than it did yesterday for comparatively little >reason compared to an EMP? No, I don't really expect that to happen. It _can_ happen but we won't really care to do it until after it happens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #36 March 14, 2007 I'm not sure that I understand what all the fuss is about.... as a married man (and a skydiver), my world is pretty much cashless already (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #37 March 14, 2007 Say you want to buy some coke in this cashless world. You and your dealer get together and go to the local pizza shop, who is a willing accomplice. You buy 25 pizzas, which don't really exist. Then the coke dealer sells the pizza shop 350 lbs of flour for $1500 (which does not exist) The pizza shop, which has organized crime connections, keeps a 10% surcharge for facillatating the transaction, the dealer gets paid, and the addict gets his fix. The difference? The mob's cut got bigger. BTW- everyone used VISA gift cards from India, so the transactions are untraceable. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #38 March 14, 2007 QuoteQuote "Verboten" spending could get sticky. where exactly would you swipe your card at the titty bar? As usual, you just hand it over to the dancer, and she keeps it. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #39 March 14, 2007 I thought this was common knowledge? They take your money and impound it until you an prove it is not used for illicit purposes. Maybe I'm thinking of the federal level, transporting cash between states and across borders. But ISTR reading a few cases over the last few years of cash being seized more or less out of the back of someone's car on the premise that there's no legitimate purpose to having that much money. example: http://www.kentucky.gov/Newsroom/justice/pr1121b.htmMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 41 #40 March 14, 2007 Quote>Do you really thing that a "realistic paper backup" would prevent a >meltdown in the US economy after an EMP? Yes. Our economy worked that way in the 1940's, and it worked just fine. It would surely not be as rapid - you wouldn't be able to sell $60,000 worth of stock and have the money within 90 seconds - but would work to support an economy. Me thinks things have changed in the US economy since the 1940's And while undergoing the need to revert to a paper system due to an EMP event the US economy would melt down."Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #41 March 14, 2007 Quote Archival is a serious business, it is not safe to assume that others are not on top of it because it may be fresh to you. Nice bluster, but not reality. I too work at a financial institution that controls a half trillion in assets. The company can survive the total loss of a city without a huge interruption. If the disaster extended the hundred miles to the BCP, there would be considerable trouble. If it took out the continent, it would be time to get the tapes. Some stuff would be on the other sides of the two oceans, but without the cpus and the people here, actual performance would be pretty shitty. So regional disaster - ok. Continental disaster, gulp! And this company is legions ahead of the last bank I worked at. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdD 1 #42 March 14, 2007 Beware the cashless society. Mandatory rfid chips come next.Life is ez On the dz Every jumper's dream 3 rigs and an airstream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sutton 0 #43 March 14, 2007 QuoteBeware the cashless society. Mandatory rfid chips come next. I already read somewhere that some people are getting chips implanted that has there credit card info on it (Basically one of those Tap It things on credit cards, except in your arm). That seems like a mess to me. Instead of someone stealing my wallet to get my credit card, they take a hacksaw to my arm? No thanks-Sutton Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #44 March 14, 2007 <> Dont worry, you can always wear your tin-foil hat. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #45 March 14, 2007 Quote<> Dont worry, you can always wear your tin-foil hat. *puts on tinfoil hat* I don't think it is working! widescale RFID use is coming. My guess is that we will start to see them showing up in state drivers licenses soon.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #46 March 14, 2007 QuoteI thought this was common knowledge? They take your money and impound it until you an prove it is not used for illicit purposes. example: http://www.kentucky.gov/Newsroom/justice/pr1121b.htm That's what I thought you meant - the police taking it upon itself to impound very large amounts of case pending investigation as to its legitimacy. In the absence of some kind of implicating context, that itself has questionable constitutionality. In any event, that's not the same thing as you were suggesting, which were actual laws making mere possession of a large amount of cash a criminal offense. I'm unaware (again, without researching it) of the existence of any such statutes in the US. It's not unreasonable for law enforcement to presume that possessing $300,000 in cash in your car has a connection to criminality. As far as a court proceeding to determine whether it must be returned to you, the touchy constitutional issue is whether the burden of proof should be on the government, or on the individual. However, technically, I think there's nothing illegal about choosing to possess any quantity of your legitimately-owned assets (assuming they're actually legitimate, and they're actually yours) in the form of physical cash. (Of course, you may not use the cash form to evade taxes, but that's a separate issue.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #47 March 15, 2007 QuoteQuote "Verboten" spending could get sticky. where exactly would you swipe your card at the titty bar? lol...yeah. And my personal example of the night....the tooth fairy can't find any cash on hand. What the fuck does the tooth fairy do without cash???? Bozo says an iou might be in order...lol. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sutton 0 #48 March 15, 2007 QuoteQuote "Verboten" spending could get sticky. where exactly would you swipe your card at the titty bar? A magnetic strip in the ass crack?-Sutton Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #49 March 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote "Verboten" spending could get sticky. where exactly would you swipe your card at the titty bar? A magnetic strip in the ass crack? what if you're a breast-man? "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #50 March 15, 2007 Very interesting. This has some remarkable parallels to the "Mark of the Beast" referred to in the Book of Revelations. A mark on everyone's forehead or wrist, without which they "cannot buy or sell". The really tough part about it is that it would make so much sense. Especially in an overpopulated world of increasing scarcity. And implanting a chip is not only possible, but has the added advantage of attempting to prevent identity theft. Obviuosly anyone operating outside such a system must be getting their food and other sustenance SOMEWHERE, all illegally. Those people become enemies of the system and are put to death. Of course those who accept the Mark get their reward in the end by being tossed into a never ending lake of fire. Interesting indeed..... Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
