Re: [shropshire] why do i miss europe?

[bodhibody 0]

I sure don't miss the USA. Over half the population is ignorant, arrogant, overly aggressive and too high strung. Europe is way more chill and women know how to be women. Many american women have embraced the feminist notion that they have to be equal to men, as if being a woman (feminine) is a bad thing, the result being self hatred and a masculine version of women, only thing missing is a certain body part... No wonder Americans are at war all the time. Americans as a whole are a controlling angry bunch, directly reflected on the current world stage. The death penalty?! The US is the only so called "civilized nation" where they still execute people. The term "ugly american" is back in vogue over here in Europe and will soon be the standard world view unless Americans wake up from their self absorbed, self-induced deep sleep and disconnection from the rest of the world.

[skymama 37]

Well, since you already think I'm controlling and unwomanly, let me step in here and remind you that this type of post is SC material, not Bonfire.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[kbordson 8]

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I sure don't miss the USA. Over half the population is ignorant, arrogant, overly aggressive and too high strung. Europe is way more chill and women know how to be women. Many american women have embraced the feminist notion that they have to be equal to men, as if being a woman (feminine) is a bad thing, the result being self hatred and a masculine version of women, only thing missing is a certain body part... No wonder Americans are at war all the time. Americans as a whole are a controlling angry bunch, directly reflected on the current world stage. The death penalty?! The US is the only so called "civilized nation" where they still execute people. The term "ugly american" is back in vogue over here in Europe and will soon be the standard world view unless Americans wake up from their self absorbed, self-induced deep sleep and disconnection from the rest of the world.

OK... and with that comment, you seem so enlightened and understanding. I'm betting you have ALL the answers. Go on.... tell us your secret for being so cool.... *fake sigh and faint* You're so smart *batting eyes and fawning*

Anyway... REALITY CHECK

PEOPLE (Americans, Italians, British, Germans, Australians....) can be assholes. To be racist or bigoted about certain nationalities is just as "ignorant, arrogant, overly aggressive" as you decribed "over half the population" of America. I'm curious as to how you've met over half the population. OR.... are you just basing your opinion on those you met in New York or a high population density.... did you spend a bit of time in South Dakota on the PineRidge reservation to develop that opinion, or maybe down in the Ozarks? I just think your comment was foolish.

[tonyhays 86]

What a coincidence...we don't miss you either!!

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[Michele 1]

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Many american women have embraced the feminist notion that they have to be equal to men,

No, that would be stepping back.

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as if being a woman (feminine) is a bad thing, the result being self hatred and a masculine version of women, only thing missing is a certain body part...

That's the only reason we need you, anyway. Oh wait...BOB is calling. Nevermind.

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No wonder Americans are at war all the time. Americans as a whole are a ontrolling angry bunch, directly reflected on the current world stage.

Betcher ass on that one. And if you don't look out, all the american women will control you, too, no matter where you are on the planet. Make no mistake, we have all the power, and all the influence. And we are angry, and out to get you.

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The death penalty?! The US is the only so called "civilized nation" where they still execute people.

Yup. We kill everyone who disagrees that women are amazing, strong, feminine and wonderful, all at the same time. So head's up, and watch your back...you're next. To hell with due process and appeals, we'll just gang up and off your happy ass.

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The term "ugly american" is back in vogue over here in Europe and will soon be the standard world view unless Americans wake up from their self absorbed, self-induced deep sleep and disconnection from the rest of the world.

Yep. We run the world. We are in charge, and we don't care if you find us pretty or ugly...cause them that holds the power holds the world in her fist. So make no mistake, we are out to take over the world, and will do so however we choose. We have ALL the power, remember.

Never mind the truth to things...

Know what? Sounds like you're one of those who can't stand a strong woman who is not dependent upon you for every little thing. Sounds like you're one of those men who want a submissive woman, and who think that your only ability to have any control in this world is making "your" woman do your bidding.

Too bad for you, then...I'd suggest expanding your knowledge and creating a life for yourself, and not have it be dependent upon a woman you can control. I've met men like you; and let me tell you, most women would find people who hold your opinion unattractive and unable to have an equal relationship or reasonable facsimile thereof. Parity is a delightful thing...but impossible in a world where women are less than you simply because they are outspoken, strong, and independent. That, you see, is the real shame; your inability to accept women as whole independent beings, able to be partnered with someone rather than subjugated by them. Well, too bad for you...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[kelpdiver 2]

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Europe is way more chill and women know how to be women.

Whether by personal choice or enforced norms, American women shave their armpits. As a man I thank them.

[Lucky... 0]

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Europe is way more chill and women know how to be women.

Whether by personal choice or enforced norms, American women shave their armpits. As a man I thank them.

Let's not make hairy armpits the yardstick of a woman's femininity. Altho I find hairy armpits on women disgusting, some Feminazi (to borrow from Limbaugh) behavior is worse.

[kbordson 8]

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Europe is way more chill and women know how to be women.

Whether by personal choice or enforced norms, American women shave their armpits. As a man I thank them.

Let's not make hairy armpits the yardstick of a woman's femininity. Altho I find hairy armpits on women disgusting, some Feminazi (to borrow from Limbaugh) behavior is worse.

OK... since you went there - define "Feminazi." Not just vague comments and generalities that refer to stereotyped insults... but really tell us what "Feminazi" behaviour repulses you.

[Lucky... 0]

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I sure don't miss the USA. Over half the population is ignorant, arrogant, overly aggressive and too high strung. Europe is way more chill and women know how to be women. Many american women have embraced the feminist notion that they have to be equal to men, as if being a woman (feminine) is a bad thing, the result being self hatred and a masculine version of women, only thing missing is a certain body part... No wonder Americans are at war all the time. Americans as a whole are a controlling angry bunch, directly reflected on the current world stage. The death penalty?! The US is the only so called "civilized nation" where they still execute people. The term "ugly american" is back in vogue over here in Europe and will soon be the standard world view unless Americans wake up from their self absorbed, self-induced deep sleep and disconnection from the rest of the world.

How dare you accuse America of being uncivilized. Just because we were one of the last 7 nations to execute people who were convicted of committing capital crimes as juveniles doesn't make us uncivilized . We are the last bastion of liberty and all that rhetoric. We deny mnimum wage increases becuase we care about our poor, we want to motivate them to work harder, and all that other rhetoric. Medical care, well, the people who don't have it really just don't want it. Nuff said there. America is the greatest nation on earth, as the rhetoric goes.....

[Lucky... 0]

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Europe is way more chill and women know how to be women.

Whether by personal choice or enforced norms, American women shave their armpits. As a man I thank them.

Let's not make hairy armpits the yardstick of a woman's femininity. Altho I find hairy armpits on women disgusting, some Feminazi (to borrow from Limbaugh) behavior is worse.

OK... since you went there - define "Feminazi." Not just vague comments and generalities that refer to stereotyped insults... but really tell us what "Feminazi" behaviour repulses you.

Not a fan of Limbaugh at all, but the slang is funny. BTW, I adore Hillary or Obama as future president. Uh, a Feminazi is a female who needs to overassert her control just to upset the apple cart to show she can, not for any constructive purpose. I think women make great professionals and intellects, so not as to subordinate women to domesic roles. OTOH, they make shitty:

- Firefighters
- Cops
- Atheletes (in most sports)
- Front line ground troops in war
- Most physical roles

That's my take, I have my asbestos suit on, so let me have it

[kbordson 8]

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I sure don't miss the USA. Over half the population is blah blah blah blah blah

How dare you accuse America of being uncivilized. blah blah blah blah blah.....

If you don't like it - effect some change. Run for office, become involved in politics or at least VOTE! (or move)

It's so much easier to sit back and be passive but still bitch and moan about the issues. Laziness, however, is not JUST an American pasttime (although we seemed to get blamed for it as if we invented it as a sport) The benefit here is that we have a system that IF you are TRULY motivated, you can do something to try to change it.

Little respect here for those that just wanna whine.

[kbordson 8]

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Not a fan of Limbaugh at all, but the slang is funny. BTW, I adore Hillary or Obama as future president. Uh, a Feminazi is a female who needs to overassert her control just to upset the apple cart to show she can, not for any constructive purpose. I think women make great professionals and intellects, so not as to subordinate women to domesic roles. OTOH, they make shitty:

- Firefighters
- Cops
- Atheletes (in most sports)
- Front line ground troops in war
- Most physical roles

That's my take, I have my asbestos suit on, so let me have it

Who decides whether she's "overassert her control" or just wants to be viewed as an equal? Do you? What are your requirments for firefighters? (not "women firefighters" or "men firefighters"... but "firefighters") If she's athelitic and can compete by using the same criteria..... why exclude her because she's XX and not that weak and deficient little Y chm?

I'm not saying let her in cuz the police stations looks better with a little feminine touch (pink curtains go so well with the donuts)... but if a PERSON qualifies for a job - whether male/female, European descent/Africian descent/ Asian descent, 25 or 65, four extremities or none - if they can meet the standard for the job, it's DISCRIMINATION to otherwise deny it.

I don't consider myself a feminazi, but neither will I allow shallow comments to go unchallenged.

[Lucky... 0]

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If you don't like it - effect some change. Run for office, become involved in politics or at least VOTE! (or move)

I don't wanna be a politician. I have voted since I was 18 and in every presidential and mid-term election, and I assume I am considerably older than are you, so how can you make that assumption? Move? Love to?
I sincerely apologize for having an opinion in this last bastion of liberty and freedom.

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It's so much easier to sit back and be passive but still bitch and moan about the issues.

I was military for 1 term. I am degreed and I have voted in every election that I could, so how is it that you are talking to me?

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Laziness, however, is not JUST an American pasttime (although we seemed to get blamed for it as if we invented it as a sport) The benefit here is that we have a system that IF you are TRULY motivated, you can do something to try to change it.

To think you can effect change in most cases is part of that silly notion that we dole out equal protection for everyone and that liberty and justie is blind. The system is one of text only, the real application of that text is far different from the reality you like to write about.

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Little respect here for those that just wanna whine.

You don't know me, I could have dedicated my life to being an amicus for an issue. You are clueless as to who I am or what I have done to further my issues, yet you wanna tell me in neo-con fashion that I am a lazy whiner. Get a clue as to what I'm abiut and then make your judgments.

[Lucky... 0]

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Who decides whether she's "overassert her control" or just wants to be viewed as an equal?

I do, it's my opinion as to whoever we are talking about, so I can create my own opinion and support it as I wish.

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What are your requirments for firefighters? (not "women firefighters" or "men firefighters"... but "firefighters")

Can she throw me and my buddy over her shoulder and carry me down aflight of stairs as the fire is tailing us? Or would it take her 5 minutes to clumsily drag 1 of us at a time down teh stairs when the fire would have engulfed us in 30 seconds? I don't think slight men s/b firefighters either. If you can't put up 2 plates then you should sit behind a desk.

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If she's athelitic and can compete by using the same criteria..... why exclude her because she's XX and not that weak and deficient little Y chm?

I've known a couple women bodybuilders who could suffice as firefighters, and would have no problem if they did, but the mass of them could not carry me down a flight of stairs.

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I'm not saying let her in cuz the police stations looks better with a little feminine touch (pink curtains go so well with the donuts)... but if a PERSON qualifies for a job - whether male/female, European descent/Africian descent/ Asian descent, 25 or 65, four extremities or none - if they can meet the standard for the job, it's DISCRIMINATION to otherwise deny it.

I agree, but let's up the standards. Should I post a copy of the local standards for police entry? Women have far les stringent standards and can even do girly pushups. Hell, I can't be a Hooter's girl (my hairy legs don't look so good in the uniforms), so why can weaker people be firefighters?

As for the legal definition of gender discrimination, you are far away. Go read cases like Bacce (actually more about race than gender, but nonetheless a discrimination case) or read about 1972's Title 9. You might be representing a common sense approach to it, but it's not the one used.

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I don't consider myself a feminazi, but neither will I allow shallow comments to go unchallenged.

Hang on, a tear of gender equality patriotism is falling down my cheek...... ok, there. Shallow comments? You have yet to explain, in intellectual terms, how anything I've written is shallow. I can research and post the 2 cites I have offered if you want to take this post:

A) away from the original thread

B) to a higher intellectual nature.

LMK

[kbordson 8]

I'm not expecting an apology for you having an opinion.... You are definately entitled to yours but yet you are insulted that I have mine. Seems a bit double standard. But by your comments on "Feminazi" attitudes, I fail to find that surprising.

You posted scarcastic and inflammatory comments about how America isn't what it could be (you even anticipated an attack - thus the comment on the asbestos suit). Personally I agree. There are MANY areas that need to be fixed. But... (and I might be idealistic here) either you try to fix it or your part of the problem.

If you say you want to move. Do. Life is too short to live where you aren't happy. Go to Europe if it would make you more comfortable or Jamacia or Australia. It's a wide world. But... if you wanna stay in America, then accept that if there are areas that you don't agree with that you should feel empowered to act on that.

And for the record... I am prior service too.... (a woman *shocked gasp* in the military!)... I am "degreed".... (a woman *gasp* educated)... and I could probably even out shoot you. But, none of that is relavant to my initial comment of

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If you don't like it - effect some change.

I don't think it's a "silly notion".... but again, I might be "idealistic" and "niave"... but sometimes it might only take one person standing up to say "That's Wrong"

[Lucky... 0]

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I'm not expecting an apology for you having an opinion.... You are definately entitled to yours but yet you are insulted that I have mine. Seems a bit double standard.

Please post an assertion by me and explian in som kind of detail how I am insulted you have an opinion. If you're gong to decry Women Suffrage, please support it rather than using it as a distraction.

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But by your comments on "Feminazi" attitudes, I fail to find that surprising.

Where did I say anything about attitudes? It's the actions that stem from women who are headstrong to prove they can be, rather than just walking around with attitudes. I care little about attitudes, it's teh actions that matter.

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You posted scarcastic and inflammatory comments about how America isn't what it could be (you even anticipated an attack - thus the comment on the asbestos suit).

Sarcastic and inflammatory? Hmm, were they true? I'm thinking they are and you have yet to impeach them. If I were to say that the US was a pos in WWII for Japanese-American internment, would I be wrong? Would I be unduly defaming ole glory? n teh law there is such a think as an affirmative defense and it is a defense wher ethe defendant bears the burden of the proof. So if you are attacking me for making, "scarcastic and inflammatory" statements about the US, you need to do so from the point of disproving my claim that we were one of the last 7 nations to execute people who committed capital crimes as juveniles. Or you could explain how it is justified and and how itcreates this myth of deterrence. Something, any-fuckin-thing, but not just that, "You posted scarcastic and inflammatory comments about how America isn't what it could be." You're attcaking me and not what I wrote..... look up Ad Hominem

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Personally I agree. There are MANY areas that need to be fixed. But... (and I might be idealistic here) either you try to fix it or your part of the problem.

We were endorsing slavery, prohibiting women from voting and executing people in public summary trials while we called ourselves the land of the free and you want to sugarcoat this? Niiiiiiice. Perhaps a little reading of history would be good. Read about Indian Schools while you're at it. But b sure to believe all the garbage about Thanksgiving, it's so much more pallatable than the likely truth.

Yes, you are patriotic and idealistic.

Actually the apathy you are accusing me of having doesn't contribute to the problem. I'm not apathetic, but even if I was it wouldn't be contributory to the probs. I go to Bush-bashing rallies, try to educate how the 3 stooges (Reagan, Bush, Bush) are responsible 75% of teh debt that Clinton actually turned flat and I vote and have voted every chance I get.

Speaking of your idealism, here's a treat. When the local county wanted to issue bonds and/or tax increases to build the local 1/2B$ ballpark, they put it to the voters who shot it down. The county board of supervisors threw out the vote and held a closed midniht session to approve it unanymously. Want another dose of idealism?

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If you say you want to move. Do. Life is too short to live where you aren't happy. Go to Europe if it would make you more comfortable or Jamacia or Australia. It's a wide world.

Am I getting life advice from who I think is a kid?

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But... if you wanna stay in America, then accept that if there are areas that you don't agree with that you should feel empowered to act on that.

What does that mean?.... "you should feel empowered to act on that." You are powerless, young lady. If you want to be a good patriot, keep thinking you can make a difference. I will always vote, but after the 2000 election and other ones like I posted, I do it so I can bitch, but it's merely masturbation other than that.

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And for the record... I am prior service too.... (a woman *shocked gasp* in the military!)... I am "degreed".... (a woman *gasp* educated)... and I could probably even out shoot you. But, none of that is relavant to my initial comment of

Who cares about a female in the military, I have no issue with that? I've already stated that I think women make great intellects, so that point is moot as well. Outshoot me, undoubtedly, I suck at hitting a target, but if we were under fire the odds are that a female would be ducking for cover as the men are sticking their dubm asses up there are exchanging fire. It's just the different way we are wired: Men = protectors / Women = nurturers.

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I don't think it's a "silly notion".... but again, I might be "idealistic" and "niave"... but sometimes it might only take one person standing up to say "That's Wrong"

Idealistic, you, yes. One person standing up to cry foul? Sounds so, Tienamin Square-ish. BTW, there is no way in hell that lon stander is still alive.

[kbordson 8]

Part of me wants to delete this post cuz - You're right.... we are highjacking this thread with two discussions far more thoughtful than the initial comment that sent this over to SC....

But... since I spent all that energy typing this (and I'm a bit too stubborn to just let it slide), I'll post it anyway:



I agree that there should be ONE standard for many professions (firefighting and police force being examples) and when they do water down the standards to allow a higher percentage of women, that's WRONG. You either meet the standards or you don't. She shouldn't be able to sue discrimination if she can't do the job... do some women sue, yes... But I don't agree with that and neither should the judge (should just be thrown out) There are a lot of cases that a reasonable judge should just dismiss, unfortunately the legal system is something that needs to be fixed too. (I'm working on trying to fix local medical system problems.... so I'll put that on the list for later)

But if you want to be a hooter girl - who is really doing the discrimination there? MEN! Trust me, most women aren't demanding that hooters girls be female .... the men visiting that establishment want the cute faces and the big rack and the short shorts.... and if you could pull off that "requirement" - more power to you.

[sweet little voice]And wipe the tears off your cheek[/end fake female cooing].... you know what shallow comments -

we can start with

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Altho I find hairy armpits on women disgusting, some Feminazi (to borrow from Limbaugh) behavior is worse.

per Websters: Lets look at defination 3B
Main Entry: 1shal·low
Pronunciation: 'sha-(")lO
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English schalowe; probably akin to Old English sceald shallow -- more at SKELETON
1 : having little depth
2 : having little extension inward or backward
3 a : penetrating only the easily or quickly perceived b : lacking in depth of knowledge, thought, or feeling
4 : displacing comparatively little air : WEAK

[Lucky... 0]

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Part of me wants to delete this post cuz - You're right.... we are highjacking this thread with two discussions far more thoughtful than the initial comment that sent this over to SC....

It is SC, so this is par. Keepit going.

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I agree that there should be ONE standard for many professions (firefighting and police force being examples) and when they do water down the standards to allow a higher percentage of women, that's WRONG. You either meet the standards or you don't. She shouldn't be able to sue discrimination if she can't do the job... do some women sue, yes... But I don't agree with that and neither should the judge (should just be thrown out)

So you agree with my list that women should not be in those occupations then? Or should we say that women who cannot meet standards that men have to meet, which encompass most women, then they s/b disallowed. So you are in agreement with me on that point.

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There are a lot of cases that a reasonable judge should just dismiss, unfortunately the legal system is something that needs to be fixed too.

Remember, the rule of law requires judges to follow these directions, so many times these aren't matters of judicial idiocy, they are matters of legislative idiocy.

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But if you want to be a hooter girl - who is really doing the discrimination there? MEN! Trust me, most women aren't demanding that hooters girls be female .... the men visiting that establishment want the cute faces and the big rack and the short shorts.... and if you could pull off that "requirement" - more power to you.

I was just posting that for the sake of example. There was an industrious guy and his buddy lawyer who did sue Hootersand one, but any other attempts would fail as I understood it. But so, I can't be a Hooter's bitch, but you can be an astronaut; no equity there. Again, I can post Title 9 if you wish, that will establish the fairness this country has and how the implement it.

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you know what shallow comments -

we can start with

Uh, no I don't. If you can;t make an argument, move along. I want to know which assertions were shallow and why.

You claim this is shallow: Altho I find hairy armpits on women disgusting, some Feminazi (to borrow from Limbaugh) behavior is worse.

How so? Which other ones; you did write there were statements

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per Websters: Lets look at defination 3B
Main Entry: 1shal·low
Pronunciation: 'sha-(")lO
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English schalowe; probably akin to Old English sceald shallow -- more at SKELETON
1 : having little depth
2 : having little extension inward or backward
3 a : penetrating only the easily or quickly perceived b : lacking in depth of knowledge, thought, or feeling
4 : displacing comparatively little air : WEAK

Thx, I was unsure what shallow meant, that clears it all up.

Which statements and why.

Now, let's talk of this great country - explain how it is so great.

[Royd 0]

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I'm not saying let her in cuz the police stations looks better with a little feminine touch (pink curtains go so well with the donuts)...

I always slow down when I see the hot blonde state trooper. She's a natural speed deterrent.

[Royd 0]

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Hell, I can't be a Hooter's girl (my hairy legs don't look so good in the uniforms),

Plus, you'd have to bust your hump to make minimum wage plus tips. Somehow, I think that's out of the question.

[Lucky... 0]

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Hell, I can't be a Hooter's girl (my hairy legs don't look so good in the uniforms),

Plus, you'd have to bust your hump to make minimum wage plus tips. Somehow, I think that's out of the question.

Something tells me the tips would e low anyway. Did you hear of the Hooters case? KInda silly, but very demonstrative for gender equality.

[georgerussia 0]

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Know what? Sounds like you're one of those who can't stand a strong woman who is not dependent upon you for every little thing.

What about a strong woman, who depends on you, but not for an every little thing? As you probably know, I'm from Europe myself, so I understand what he's talking about.

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Sounds like you're one of those men who want a submissive woman, and who think that your only ability to have any control in this world is making "your" woman do your bidding.

There is major difference in interpretation of "being submissive", ranging from "never agree with your partner no matter what is the subject" to "well, I got beaten again - at least got some attention". I would agree with you using the last definition, but I would strongly disagree if we use the first definition.

Personally I haven't yet seen a strong long term relationship where both partners involved would be completely "independent". Being independend means that a person doesn't really need a relationship, and therefore puts little to none efforts to fix the relationship when the problems come. And obviously the problems will come. At the end the person dies alone. Not a bad thing, but not something everyone is looking for.

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Too bad for you, then...I'd suggest expanding your knowledge and creating a life for yourself, and not have it be dependent upon a woman you can control.

Why not? I know a lot of men and women who like to be controlled in relationship by someone who is smarter than them, as they do not want to take any responsibility as well. Not everyone wants a relationship with an "independent woman", and I always laugh hearing something like "Are you man enough to handle me?" No, sorry - I am not gay, but I am sure you will find one.

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I've met men like you; and let me tell you, most women would find people who hold your opinion unattractive and unable to have an equal relationship or reasonable facsimile thereof.

Which is good thing. You wouldn't have a relationship with a man like him, but he wouldn't have a relationship with a woman like you as well. Thus saving a lot of grief for everyone involved, as such a relationship would most likely fail. Personally I have never heard "I'd never marry a man like you" from a woman I would even consider to be in relationship with.

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Parity is a delightful thing...but impossible in a world where women are less than you simply because they are outspoken, strong, and independent.

Parity assumes not only equal rights (which everyone can handle), but also equal responsibilities for actions (which much less people can really handle). That's why everyone wants to get a CEO salary, but much less people want to be a CEO themselves.

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That, you see, is the real shame; your inability to accept women as whole independent beings, able to be partnered with someone rather than subjugated by them. Well, too bad for you...

As said above, it is not bad at all. And this works in Europe as well. The situation how I see it is that those strong independend women want to have relationships with no less than smart, strong and educated men. However those smart, strong and educated men do not want to have a relationship with those strong independend women. The evolution works well, and "strong and independend" leave no children, becoming an evolution dead end. I do not know yet how it works in U.S. (but I'm studying it hard, and it's close), but that's the way it worked there.

P.S. As for European, I really wonder no mention of obesity rate.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Lucky... 0]

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P.S. As for European, I really wonder no mention of obesity rate.

Really, what's worse: hairy armpits or fat chicks?

[pirana 0]

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P.S. As for European, I really wonder no mention of obesity rate.

Really, what's worse: hairy armpits or fat chicks?

A third option comes to mind.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Lucky... 0]

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P.S. As for European, I really wonder no mention of obesity rate.

Really, what's worse: hairy armpits or fat chicks?

A third option comes to mind.

Which is????????????