Gonzales aide to invoke Fifth Amendment

[Richards 0]

Quote

As another who's been unfairly painted with a partisan brush, I vouch for Richards. His stated positions in speakers corner have not been party-loyal and I've seen him ask questions and learn from the answers.

Gracias.

I suspect that my right wing views on the criminal justice system may taint people's views on me but I do try to judge each issue seperately. On economic issues I am somewhat middle, with social issues I am to the left, and so on.

Anyway,

Cheers.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[billvon 3,009]

> Does the name Scooter Libby ring a bell?

You mean the guy who was convicted of lying to cover up the Plame scandal?

If the right's best defense is "we can't let anyone go under oath; they'll lie and go to jail!" then at least we know what they think of the value of honesty.

>while interesting issues such as the utter failure of the Doha round of the GATT . . .

Yeah, and what about the Yuma irrigation-water desalination plant scandal? I can't BELIEVE people are wasting their time talking about wars, lying attorney generals and revealing state secrets while issues like the Doha round of the GATT, the Yuma desalination plant restart and Britney's divorce are ignored! Where are people's priorities?

[TheAnvil 0]

Quick question for you, Bill.

If Ms. Plame really was covert, then why hasn't Mr. Armitrage been charged with a crime, being as he's publicly admitted leaking her name? If those calling for Mr. Rove's head over the matter were serious about their cries of anguish over national security (they're not) then they'd be wondering the same thing.

Until somebody answers that, I'll consider it the 'Plame non-scandal.' Very much like the attorney-firing non-scandal.

No congressional approval is required for firing these attorneys now under scrutiny, by the way.

The GATT round failure is far more interesting and its effects on the world far greater than stupid non-scandals. So is Mr. Jefferson's "Cold Cash" - haven't seen that in the news lately. The impending SS budget fiasco is also a far more interesting topic. The failed 100 day agenda of Ms. Pelosi and friends - another interesting tidbit that got no coverage. Instead we've got non-scandals on issues that most voters have never even heard of dominating the political headlines.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 3,009]

>If Ms. Plame really was covert, then why hasn't Mr. Armitrage been
>charged with a crime, being as he's publicly admitted leaking her name?

Because Libby et al did their jobs well. We can conclude he is as innocent as OJ Simpson or Bill Clinton.

>So is Mr. Jefferson's "Cold Cash"

Agreed. Some money in a freezer (likely bribes) is MUCH MUCH more important than a war that's killing a few US soldiers a day. Heck, CNN should be doing story after story on that and ignoring the dead US soldiers who are, after all, depressing.

>Instead we've got non-scandals on issues that most voters have
>never even heard of dominating the political headlines.

Yep. Why can't we get a democrat to lie about a blowjob again? THEN we'd have a story worthy of being on the front pages for six months! All this stuff about wars is so inconsequential.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Let's not forget Ms. "007" Plame got in her car every morning and drove to her "covert office" at the CIA in Langley, put in her 8hrs. and then drove home. Pretty sneaky cover, eh?

[billvon 3,009]

> Let's not forget Ms. "007" Plame got in her car every morning and
>drove to her "covert office" at the CIA in Langley, put in her 8hrs. and then
>drove home. Pretty sneaky cover, eh?

I can't wait for the righties to start defending the recent ITT fine. "Fined for selling night vision technology to China? Absurd! You can buy these things on the web for $150. I don't understand the technology exactly, but I'm certain there are absolutely no state secrets involved with night vision technology. This is a complete non-issue that has been blown way out of proportion by the liberal drive-by press."

[funjumper101 15]

Quote

Quick question for you, Bill.

If Ms. Plame really was covert, then why hasn't Mr. Armitrage been charged with a crime, being as he's publicly admitted leaking her name? If those calling for Mr. Rove's head over the matter were serious about their cries of anguish over national security (they're not) then they'd be wondering the same thing.

Until somebody answers that, I'll consider it the 'Plame non-scandal.' Very much like the attorney-firing non-scandal.

No congressional approval is required for firing these attorneys now under scrutiny, by the way.

The GATT round failure is far more interesting and its effects on the world far greater than stupid non-scandals. So is Mr. Jefferson's "Cold Cash" - haven't seen that in the news lately. The impending SS budget fiasco is also a far more interesting topic. The failed 100 day agenda of Ms. Pelosi and friends - another interesting tidbit that got no coverage. Instead we've got non-scandals on issues that most voters have never even heard of dominating the political headlines.

It doesn't seem that you followed the story in much detail.

DAGS on the matter a bit.

Pay particular attention to what Fitzgerald had to say about why the investigation fizzled out.

What you will find is that the obstruction of justice was so extensive that it wasn't possible to conduct a successful investigation. No one would talk.

[funjumper101 15]

Quote

Let's not forget Ms. "007" Plame got in her car every morning and drove to her "covert office" at the CIA in Langley, put in her 8hrs. and then drove home. Pretty sneaky cover, eh?

Simple parroting of the Republican talking points.

The reality is much different than the talking points.

Google is your friend.

Pay attention to what the career CIA people have to say on the issue. Discard anything from those outside the intelligence community, both Dem and Repub. Then decide if Plame was covert or not.

By their standards, she was.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Simple parroting of the Republican talking points.

The reality is much different than the talking points.

Nope, the reality is Fitgerald knew that Armatage was the leaker from nearly the first day he was assigned the case and pursued it anyway.

The reality is, "007" Plame had an office at the CIA that she went to daily from her home.

.

[billvon 3,009]

>"007" Plame . . .

Cindy Sheehan, "media whore"
9/11 families who enjoyed their husband's deaths
Pat Tillman's family "behaved disgracefully" by asking how their son died, and demonstrated "a complete absence of both . . . character and patriotism."

Now CIA agents are "007's" who weren't REALLY undercover (according to right wing 'experts') and who deserve to get not-outed by politicians eager to harm their spouses.

Classy people, these conservatives. What will the encore be? One shudders to think.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

>"007" Plame . . .

Cindy Sheehan, "media whore"
9/11 families who enjoyed their husband's deaths
Pat Tillman's family "behaved disgracefully" by asking how their son died, and demonstrated "a complete absence of both . . . character and patriotism."

Now CIA agents are "007's" who weren't REALLY undercover (according to right wing 'experts') and who deserve to get not-outed by politicians eager to harm their spouses.

Classy people, these conservatives. What will the encore be? One shudders to think.

Are you disputing what I'm saying? If so please provide a counter-arguement instead of going off on the usual non-sequitor babble.

.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Pay attention to what the career CIA people have to say on the issue. Discard anything from those outside the intelligence community, both Dem and Repub. Then decide if Plame was covert or not.

By their standards, she was.

Only the naive would believe everything coming from the CIA. Are you really serious? Would it surprise you if I told you there are "left wing" groups of nutjobs inside the govt who would love to bring Bush down because of precieved injustices done by him to the CIA?

I'd prefer to believe the person who actually wrote the law as to whether it was broken. Since you like Google so much, her name is Victoria Toesing.

[billvon 3,009]

>Are you disputing what I'm saying?

(sigh)

Yes, let's get literal. "007" Plame is as false as Pelosi: "I want my jet." It's a made up phrase that has no basis in reality that you're using to try to paint her as a fool.

Valerie Plame was an undercover agent. Rush Limbaugh may not think so, but the CIA does. WaPo:

"Plame currently is an analyst at the CIA. But, intelligence officials said, she previously served overseas in a clandestine capacity, which means her name is kept classified to protect her previous contacts and operations, and her ability to work again undercover overseas."

"This is not just another leak. This is an unprecedented exposing of an agent's identity" - former CIA officer Jim Marcinkowski, who trained with her

". . .whether any official making such a disclosure did so knowing that the employment of Valerie Wilson by the CIA was classified information." - from the official Grand Jury Investigation.

So you go with Limbaugh. I'll go with the CIA and with the indictment handed down by a grand jury.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

>Are you disputing what I'm saying?

(sigh)

Yes, let's get literal. "007" Plame is as false as Pelosi: "I want my jet." It's a made up phrase that has no basis in reality that you're using to try to paint her as a fool.

Valerie Plame was an undercover agent. Rush Limbaugh may not think so, but the CIA does. WaPo:

"Plame currently is an analyst at the CIA. But, intelligence officials said, she previously served overseas in a clandestine capacity, which means her name is kept classified to protect her previous contacts and operations, and her ability to work again undercover overseas."

"This is not just another leak. This is an unprecedented exposing of an agent's identity" - former CIA officer Jim Marcinkowski, who trained with her

". . .whether any official making such a disclosure did so knowing that the employment of Valerie Wilson by the CIA was classified information." - from the official Grand Jury Investigation.

So you go with Limbaugh. I'll go with the CIA and with the indictment handed down by a grand jury.

yourself.

If a crime was commited, then why wasn't Armitage charged?

Why is Victoria Toesing saying no crime was commited?

I really get a huge laugh when the Bush-Haters can't answer these 2 simple questions and then launch into the standard left-wing babble to deflect from the truth. The truth being this was just a witch hunt to try and bring down Karl Rove by putting those within the Administration under oath and asking them detailed questions that anyone without a perfect memory would have trouble remembering.

Obviously those who don't believe it have never been subjected to the canter of a good prosecutor. Do you believe only guilty people end up in prison? Gee, how do you think that happens?
Get real. Not everyone has a perfect memory. Dumb thing Libby did was to try and answer instead of simply saying "I don't remember".

I'll be waiting for your response to my questions above. Have a great evening!

Edited to add: You go with The WaPo and CIA to provide you with legal interpetations. I'll go with the person who wrote the law and the fact that Armitage (you remember, the guy who actually admited he disclosed her identity) hasn't been charged.


.

[dorbie 0]

Bill and the CIA chose their words very carefully. She was not a clandestine agent at the time, therefore it was not a crime. The real lies are those which are used to pretend a crime was committed and to use the intentional media confusion to destroy people like Scooter Libby.

Plame & hubby made out like a bandits while pursuing a political agenda. Scooter Libby was the victim, and now the pot calls the kettle black.

Bill you have no moral high ground to crow from, you're promulgating flagrant hypocrisy and deception.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Here's a few other tidbits you won't see often.

In January 2001, Libby was the lawyer for millionaire financier Marc Rich, whom President Bill Clinton pardoned shortly before leaving office. Fitzgerald, who was then an assistant U.S. attorney in the southern district of New York, and U.S. Attorney James Comey spearheaded the criminal investigation of that pardon.

Think Fitzgerald might have had a little vendetta against Libby?

Fitzgerald jailed former New York Times reporter Judith Miller for almost 90 days for not providing evidence in a matter that involved no crime. Yet the two were engaged in another dispute: Fitzgerald wanted Miller's phone records, contending that by contacting an Islamic charity, she had alerted it to a government search the day before it happened.

Fitzgerald granted immunity to former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer without ever asking what he would testify to; he permitted NBC News bureau chief Tim Russert to be interviewed in a law firm office with his lawyer present, while Novak was forced to testify before the grand jury without counsel present.

In violating prosecutorial ethics by discussing facts outside the indictment during his Oct. 28, 2005, news conference, Fitzgerald made one factual assertion that turned out to be flat wrong: Libby was not "the first official" to reveal Plame's identity. At the time, Fitzgerald was fully aware that Armitage was the leaker.

Fitzgerald, like Libby, remembered something incorrectly? Say it ain't so.

.

[TheAnvil 0]

I fail to follow your reasoning here. Mr. Armitrage admitted leaking Ms. Plame's info...and you're saying that because Mr. Libby et al did their jobs well, he isn't being charged? I don't get it. Admission to what you state is a crime should equate to charges being filed against the man. I see no reason to cease viewing those caling for Mr. Libby's and Mr. Rove's heads over the Plame-non-affair as anything more than partisan morons who don't know what they're talking about. You didn't answer my question.

One wonders why you would ever allude to the war in Iraq being out of the news. It's in the news daily - as it should be.

Mr. Cold Cash, the GATT disaster, and other major stories aren't in the headlines whlle idiotic non-issues dominate. Political headlines are boring because of it.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[TheAnvil 0]

Perhaps you should read the indictment. Mr. Libby was never charged with revealing the identity of a covert agent.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[billvon 3,009]

>If nothing illegal has happened, why does she have to worry about incriminating herself?

Edited - the original CNN story (i.e. "Gonzales has resigned") was incorrect; they are now reporting that his _aide_ Monica Goodling resigned. (She's the one who pled the Fifth recently.)