Iran - How Far Will they Push?

[dorbie 0]

Quote

I gree with Darius on this one.

Its possible, if not pretty likely, that the brits were in Iranian waters again. If so, Iran are within their rights to make an issue of it. The idea that they can provide GPS evidence to prove they were not is laughable.

There would be outrage if a foriegn navy started doing exercises off the coast of the UK or USA, yet Iran is just expected to put up with what is a blatant provocation.

So there can be no enforcement of Iraqi territorial waters? They were in Iraqi waters.

Even if it were the case that they were in Iranian waters (and they were not) what Iran is doing NOW is indefensible. It is an act of war.

Darius has made every excuse possible for Iran's outrages, including saying that they would be released.

They are hostages and changing demands have been issued before they can be released. They are being exploited to issue propaganda statements for Iran.

I really don't care what conclusion your brand of demented moral equivocation produces. The conduct is manifest, trying to excuse it merely betrays your own bias.

[dorbie 0]

Quote

Remember that the U.S. captured 5 Iranian "Intelligence Officers" inside Iraq several months ago so this may be an attempt to use the 15 Brits as bargaining chips to get them back. Very likely IMO.

It's also very likely this is an attempt by the Revolutionary Guard to sabotage negotiations between the U.S. and Iran. Keep in mind that Condeleeza Rice is due to meet with Iranian representative in Istanbul in a few weeks to discuss Irans nuclear program. A meeting which the R.G. opposes. There is a lot of support for these meetings that have been conveyed to the U.S. through back channels from many sources inside Iran. These talks will certainly be put on hold until this incident is resolved.

It's also possible that the R.G. is attempting to pressure European Govts. for the return of Gen Ali Reza Asgari who disappeared in Istanbul in Feb. It is unknown whether he defected or was kidnapped. What is known is that he had very detailed knowledge of the R.G. and was a keystone in their communications with Hezbollah.

Whatever the R.G's. reasons, I'm pretty sure it isn't as simple as their claim that the Brits were in Iranian waters.

.

Yup, they announced they would do this ahead of time too.

[vortexring 0]

Exclusive: US financial sources in Bahrain report American investors in Bahrain advised to pack up business operations and leave

March 30, 2007, 3:56 PM (GMT+02:00)


The advice came from officers with US Central Command 5th Fleet HQ at Manama, who spoke of security tension, a hint at an approaching war with Iran. Arab sources report the positioning of a Patriot anti-missile battery in Bahrain this week; they say occupancy at emirate hotels has soared past 90% due mostly to the influx of US military personnel. They also report Western media crews normally employed in military coverage are arriving in packs.

Thursday, March 29, Gen. Khaled al-‘Absi, Bahrain’s chief of air defense operations disclosed that new alarm networks had been installed and air defense systems upgraded to handle chemical, biological and radioactive attacks.

The USS Nimitz and its support ships will be departing San Diego Monday, April 2, to join the John C. Stennis Strike Group in the Persian Gulf. The nuclear carrier is due to relieve the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower , but military sources in the Gulf believe all three US carriers will stay put if tensions continue to climb or if fighting breaks out involving American, British and Iranian forces.

The mighty American armada is further supported by the USS Bataan and USS Boxer strike groups.

War tensions have been triggered most recently by the crisis over the seized British sailors and large-scale US sea, air and amphibious exercises in the Gulf.

1. **** Tehran sources report that in the contest within the Iranian leadership over how to handle the affair of the captured British seamen, the wildest radical element has gained the upper hand, reducing the prospects of their imminent release. Heading the tough Tehran faction are hardline president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Gen. Rahim Safavi, commander of the Revolutionary Guards whose naval wing performed the seizure.

They gained strength from the British premier Tony Blair’s initial passive, semi-conciliatory response. Tehran quickly grasped it had acquired not just a propaganda tool but a military asset, which the UK cannot match as long as the Americans desist from throwing their military might into the fray. Washington has refused to risk of a full-scale war confrontation with the Revolutionary Guards for the sake of the British sailors.

Iranian strategists also registered that, although the Blair government has begun moving mountains to gain the freedom of the marine crew held in Tehran, London appeared fairly laid back about the kidnap of BBC correspondent Alan Johnston in broad daylight by gunmen in Palestinian Gaza, although three weeks had gone by.

Revolutionary Guards serving with Palestinian terrorist groups in Gaza no doubt filed a full report on the Johnston case to Tehran, which drew its own conclusions.

2. Taking part in the big demonstration of American naval, air and marine force launched March 27 are the two nuclear carrier strike forces Stennis and Eisenhower , thousands of marines and 100 warplanes. Maneuvers on this scale in the tight, overcrowded waters of the Persian Gulf carry risks of a collision between American and Iranian craft.

**** military sources report that the Nimitz group is composed of the Princeton guided-missile cruiser, four guided missile destroyers – the Higgins , Chafee , John Paul Jones and Pinckney . The strike force is armed with two helicopter squadrons and a special unit for dismantling sea mines and other explosive devices.

Earlier, **** quoted intelligence sources in Moscow as predicting that a US strike against Iranian nuclear installations codenamed Operation Bite has been scheduled for April 6 at 0040 hours. Missiles and air raids will conduct strikes designed to be devastating enough to set Tehran’s nuclear program several years back.


Happy 1st of April.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

the difference is back then, we (and the UK) weren't occupying countries in the Middle East. Since then, we've camped a significant portion of our armies there on a continuous basis.

Well, what was the US ship doing there then?

Not occupying a country.

(duh)

[vortexring 0]

Are US/Allied Forces officially occupying Iraq at the moment? (duh)

edit: WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States on Thursday rejected Saudi Arabia's charge that Iraq is under an ''illegitimate foreign occupation'' and said U.S. troops are there at Iraq's invitation, under a U.N. mandate.

``It is not accurate to say that the United States is occupying Iraq,'' said White House spokeswoman Dana Perino.

AS REPORTED IN THE NEW YORK TIMES

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Gravitymaster 0]

Found this pretty interesting, too. Those Iranians seem to be having trouble with their GPS devices.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1605487,00.html

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Found this pretty interesting, too. Those Iranians seem to be having trouble with their GPS devices.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1605487,00.html

http://www.randycrow.com/articles/022707.htmAnd our SF and drones have been invading SOVERIGN territory for quite some time. Who are the bad guys?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Gravitymaster 0]

I'll have to read it later, right now I'm laughing too hard at the author calling Harry Reid a Neo-Con.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Many countries use spy satellites, secret agents, electronic surveilance etc. to track activities in countries they deem hostile. In fact it's actually done between countries that consider each other allies, sometimes. That's a far cry from sending troops across the border, don't you think?

Just curious if you take the guy that wrote those articles seriously?

[dorbie 0]

Quote

Quote

Found this pretty interesting, too. Those Iranians seem to be having trouble with their GPS devices.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1605487,00.html

http://www.randycrow.com/articles/022707.htmAnd our SF and drones have been invading SOVERIGN territory for quite some time. Who are the bad guys?

You almost sound British the way you say "our" while discussing British hostages. Welcome aboard, it's good to have close friends.

[Beerlight 0]

Iran now says that if Britain "apologizes" it would aid in the release of their troops.

[Gawain 0]

I would like to know why no one has mentioned NATO in all this. This is clearly an attack on one of the keystones of NATO and personally, I think Iran would react differently if everyone put together a unified front.

This is the same shit that Hamas pulled with kidnapping Israeli troops. Iran has been getting away with this shit for 30 years and it's an affront to the world.

This is a crisis.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Beerlight 0]

I would say that if they aren't released, Iran has the potential to lose a lot. It's all about face now. Britain can't lose face. sad situation.

[narcimund 0]

Quote

It's all about face now.

I thought it was all about 15 people.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Quote

It's all about face now.

I thought it was all about 15 people.

In reality, yes. In the political perspective, alas, it is not.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Beerlight 0]

I guess President Ahmadinejadnt is quite used to hostage taking though. Now, that's not a slap, it's the truth. This whole thing will spin out of control shortly.

Exactly how much is Iran willing to lose? Or in their eyes gain?

[crozby 0]

Quote

This whole thing will spin out of control shortly.

I think its totally in control. Imagine if...

The UK boat was deliberately in Iranian waters. The number of incedence of this type had increased lately and it is getting too dificult to ignore. Iran had to deal with it this time.

The Iranians remand the crew and demand an apology. They should expect an appology; any nation would at least expect that.

But the UK don't give them one. Instead they say the ship was in Iraqi waters, they produce 'evidence' to support their claim and they demand their crew back. The PR machines go into overdrive. The whole world gets to hear the UK version of story. It very quickly becomes fact.

The Iranians can't release the crew now. They would look guilty, foolist and weak.

What does Iran do? They know the boat was in Iranian waters, members of the captured crew has admitted they were in Iranin waters. Yet the world does not believe them. So they put some of the crew on TV.

Now they are really fucked. More bad PR. More spin.

The world has been given a clear demonstration of how evil and agressive Iran can be. Do we want a nation like that getting nukes? No we fucking do not!

Its a possibility.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Are US/Allied Forces officially occupying Iraq at the moment? (duh)

Of course they are. Hence my words: 'the difference is then we were not.' This show contrast.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Iran now says that if Britain "apologizes" it would aid in the release of their troops.

I bet. They'd like to win before the British can talk to the soldiers and get the true story. Yet more reason to correctly guess which side is full of shit on this.

[Darius11 12]

we can lie as much as we want. When we lie and kill54k people it is a mistake. When we sit in the persiangulf iran wants to start a fight we want peace that's why we have the gun to there head. We are always right just trying to do the right thing and bring peace and happiness to all. Were like santa with a cruze misslle. We have so many smart people just look at the smart guy they voted for and you'll know the whole story.....

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[akarunway 1]

Quote

I would like to know why no one has mentioned NATO in all this. This is clearly an attack on one of the keystones of NATO and personally, I think Iran would react differently if everyone put together a unified front.

This is the same shit that Hamas pulled with kidnapping Israeli troops. Iran has been getting away with this shit for 30 years and it's an affront to the world.

This is a crisis.

"Iran 's been getting away w/ this shit for 30 yrs". The US govt. indoctrinated you well grasshopper> a little history> Who the fuck you think installed the Shah into power. >http://www.iranchamber.com/history/oil_nationalization/oil_nationalization.php More>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[dorbie 0]

Your willingness to fabricate any old shit about the UK and excuse manifest, obvious abuses by Iran reveals your bias.

You Darius and others here are bending over backwards to excuse Iran and simply invent versions of events with no basis in reality.

Iran could release these hostages now. They could grant consular access, they could stop issuing propaganda penned by the hostages.

We're still waiting on the release of the 15, which according to Darius' bullshit happened long ago.

Despite an overt act of aggression Iran is being given a chance to pull back from the brink, instead they demand that the UK government hang it's peope out to dry by issuing a false confession, not to secure a release but to facitilate some nebulous bullshit that would still leave them at the mercy of people who only want to exploit their captivity, yet you just lap it up and excuse an act of war.

[dorbie 0]

Quote

we can lie as much as we want.

You certainly can, like when you said the hostages had already been freed.

Don't lump me in with your "we" there's nothing "we" about you and the U.K.

[dorbie 0]

Quote

CAMP DAVID, Md. - President Bush on Saturday said Iran's capture of 15 British sailors and marines was "inexcusable" and called for Iran to "give back the hostages" immediately and unconditionally.

[akarunway 1]

"Despite an overt act of aggression" > And the usa hasn't been doing this for yrs. You one of them warmongerers? Have stock in Halliburton? Or Bechtel? Or KBR? When the usa attack Iran, hope your driving a hybrid. And I can go on and on and on and ond on. How many puppets can the usa install. I lived thru this one in the Phillippines>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Marcos

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.