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rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteBeing part of the military is conditioning in itself
Being part of the military only means you are trained to do your specific job and are familiar with military customs and courtesies. As I said before at no time in my military training have I ever been conditioned to think a certain way, I have always been free to hold my own opinion. You have absolutely nothing to back up your claims of my brainwashing other than the typical "you don't believe what I believe so therefore you have been brainwashed". That is a pretty weak argument my friend.QuoteYou claim that soldiers know more about current world conflicts then people sitting at desks with objective observation
I've never said that I know more than everyone elsejust because I'm on the groundd watching it happen. I have however stated that I have the opportunity to get a better perspective of what's going on because I get to see things happen and take affect first hand. Not to mention that I am privvy to everything that the media does not get its hands on as well as all the things they conveniantly filter out so everything fits the image they are trying to portray. All media outlets do this not just the extremist ones, even some of my favorite news stations do this. Yes some are better than others at just reporting the facts, but it's always "filtered" to some extent.QuoteBut the number one telling bit of indoctrination is the fact you think the world's super power uses an army for the betterment of other people's lives out of the kindness of its own heart
The world's super power uses its own military for a countless number o reasons. Sometimes it is called upon by the international community to remedy a situation that can have negative impacts on innocent people, and sometimes it decides on its own to use it for its own interest. Simply because I say that being the worlds super power comes with added responsibility in no way implies that I have been brainwashed as you claim.
for someone being brand new to these forums you sure like to shoot of at the mouth a lot to people you know nothing about while you hide behind a profile that's not even filled out. I have quite a bit more justifying reasons than you to make a claim that you have been brainwashed by an extreme leftist organization but I decline to make comments like that seeing as how I haven't had a chance to figure you out yet. For someone who claims to have so much higher education(the degrees listed in your profile) you sure draw conclusions awfully quick and with very little substantiating data. But what would i know, I'm just a brainwashed knuckle-dragging ground pounder stuck in Iraq because I didn't do well in school right
You are not alone. All on the right are. They are smarter than us. Just ask them
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
billvon 2,989
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>Does anyone seriously think all the terrorist assets are being used up in Iraq?
Many do. The "bullet sponge" theory is often trotted out, usually along the lines of "wouldn't you rather our troops soak up all those bullets, or would you rather your family was killed by terrorists in their living room?"
Which makes about as much sense to me as going into local bars and looking for drunken assholes to beat up, so you don't have to do it in your living room. (Hey, that would make you safer, right?)
Many do. The "bullet sponge" theory is often trotted out, usually along the lines of "wouldn't you rather our troops soak up all those bullets, or would you rather your family was killed by terrorists in their living room?"
Which makes about as much sense to me as going into local bars and looking for drunken assholes to beat up, so you don't have to do it in your living room. (Hey, that would make you safer, right?)
rehmwa 2
Quote>Which makes about as much sense to me as going into local bars and looking for drunken assholes to beat up, so you don't have to do it in your living room. (Hey, that would make you safer, right?)
analogies are wonderful things, yours assumes just randomly picking fights, the other sides assumes it's not random and the fight is only with the drunk that set fire to your garage last week and left a note promising he's coming back and will kill your wife and dog next time
now you guys can all pick and nit about whose assumptions are better for this analogy
darts and shuttlecocks
I think I'll just play with the picture you painted.
"Jon puts out the fire in his garage and reads the note". He heads to the bar where Buddy (the arsonist and note writer) drinks and picks a fight. Some skinny pukes in the corner didn't see Jon's garage and start to cry about Jon putting up the fight, a couple of Jon's neighbors are also there and they stand by Jon. The skinny pukes keep crying and try to stop the fight by demanding Jon buys buddy a few more beers and also that Jon get castrated. Jon says no thank you and continues to chase Buddy around a pool table. A couple of spoiled college students are looking in the window outside - they know nothing about Jon or Buddy - they talk about how evolved they are compared to the rest of the world and how they despise the rest of the world and that they need to take of it, and how bad Jon is and decide right then to offer Buddy a place to crash tonight.
maybe in their garage"
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Quoteyou sure draw conclusions awfully quick and with very little substantiating data. But what would i know, I'm just a brainwashed knuckle-dragging ground pounder stuck in Iraq because I didn't do well in school right
I can only go on what you say and what you have said is pro war, pro troop surge, pro occupation, pro U.S military(naturally) and pro heroic america saving the day.
Example being..
QuoteBeing part of the military only means you are trained to do your specific job and are familiar with military customs and courtesies. As I said before at no time in my military training have I ever been conditioned to think a certain way, I have always been free to hold my own opinion. You have absolutely nothing to back up your claims of my brainwashing other than the typical "you don't believe what I believe so therefore you have been brainwashed". That is a pretty weak argument my friend.
Brainwashing is just a buzzword.
You are indoctrinated or conditioned to think like a soldier because you are a soldier. You may not think so but have a look at your own words because you summed it up nicely, military "culture".
You are free to hold your own opinion but you are not free give it nor act upon it, you take orders from a hierarchical power structure which you are not allowed to disobey.
You don’t need to be sat in a char with eyelids pried open to be brainwashed, an example would be modern consumerism and advertising. Nor do you have to be stupid or a zombie as you are obviously a smart person. But claiming there is not a certain level of conditioning when you join a society like the military, especially one with such distinct power relations, I think is wrong.
Amazon 7
QuoteWhat is the point of this question?
What is the relevance of this question to the discussion?
Wow I read a couple books too.
Since you have no PERSONAL experience of what the military is.. I am sure by reading what you write you have a skewed view depending on what books you read...right??? Sounds like some dogmatic brainwashing happened somewhere along the way there comrade.
Another question... in your Utopian world where the US Military does not exist and the USA did not go to war and then spend BILLIONS of OUR money to rebuild Europe.. What would YOUR life be like there now???
rehmwa 2
QuoteSounds like some dogmatic brainwashing happened somewhere along the way there comrade.
1 - he's calling life experience "brainwashing" in order to ellicit the negative connotations (look at how it was finally explained)
2 - however, only the term "brainwashing" is used for those that disagree with him
I saw no substantial reply to your very good observation that the US is about the only country on the planet that is a convergence of nearly every single culture known.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
I agree with you. Training is not brainwashing. I was in the RAF for 10 years and still hold true some of the standards from my training. I never received politcal 'training' and as a technician was taught to think for myself and solve problems... exactly the opposite to what I think Brainwashing does.
I dont remember even talkin politics in the crew room (far more interesting things to talk about ... like women, music what on the tellie etc).
Thatcher was PM when I was in the service, and I thought that she was an arse even then.... Completely opposite to what one would think of a Brainwashed Military man.
The argument for brainwashing and conditioning is weak at best.
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
I dont remember even talkin politics in the crew room (far more interesting things to talk about ... like women, music what on the tellie etc).
Thatcher was PM when I was in the service, and I thought that she was an arse even then.... Completely opposite to what one would think of a Brainwashed Military man.
The argument for brainwashing and conditioning is weak at best.
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
Quote
Since you have no PERSONAL experience of what the military is.. I am sure by reading what you write you have a skewed view depending on what books you read...right??? Sounds like some dogmatic brainwashing happened somewhere along the way there comrade.
You don’t have to experience first hand something to understand something.
You can study skydiving or the military and have a complex understanding of both without needing to feel the rush of air or bullets passed your head.
I work on objective analysis and to do so I unfortunately have to read a fair number of books for all sides of something so as to arrive at my own opinion OR to wash away bullshit from fact.
QuoteAnother question... in your Utopian world where the US Military does not exist and the USA did not go to war and then spend BILLIONS of OUR money to rebuild Europe.. What would YOUR life be like there now???
An amusing testament to being a product of your environment is the American ability to bring all arguments back to irrelevant hypotheticals about the Second World War.
Let me try to answer this question anyway
1. If we are talking about utopia the U.S military wouldn’t exist just like all military.
2. There are a number of reasons why the U.S “rebuilt Europe” and none of them have anything to do with self sacrifice or protecting the freedoms of Western Europe from Stalin.
The main reasons for the Marshall plan include; Prevention of economic collapse which would further the influence of worker and peasant based organizations and communist organizations and to rebuild Western Europe’s state capitalist economies both of which simply boil down to implementing the geopolitical goal of economic dominance.
3. The nations that received the most aid grew the least and the nations who received the least grew most, and
4. Economic growth in many of the countries started before the of U.S. aid arrived
We can also touch on things like the U.S essentially paying for the Netherlands and France to go on colonial murder sprees in Indonesia and other parts of Asia. Where by the amount of “rebuild” money going into the Netherlands and France was roughly equal to the amount siphoned from their treasuries to buy U.S weapons and commit violence in Asia.
Also the fact the vast majority of the money given was from the U.S tax payer and the vast majority of the money received was the European private sector which essentially set the stage for the U.S private sector to invest in Europe later on creating the basis of transnational corporations which much of the world are now displeased with the existence of.
And finally for the very last part of this hypothetical, what would my life be like now? Well I am not European so probably much the same as it is. I don’t know about Europe though… perhaps there would have been economic collapse and the development of communist or socialist states, perhaps Europe would all become part of the USSR, perhaps and most likely as evidence shows European countries would have eventually re-developed their economies.
Please no more hypothetical parallel universes they hurt my brain.
QuoteQuoteSounds like some dogmatic brainwashing happened somewhere along the way there comrade.
1 - he's calling life experience "brainwashing" in order to ellicit the negative connotations (look at how it was finally explained)
I already said it was a buzzword. You can call it what ever you like, indoctrination, conditioning, brainwashing, at the end of the day joining an institution like the military will result in this. Both on an active level and on a subconscious level, for example being trained to kill and subordination to power structures respectively
Quote
2 - however, only the term "brainwashing" is used for those that disagree with him
Wrong, I would use that term for anyone who joins a power structured closed society like the military. About the only other is organized and evangelical religion, and I will point out that is very different from simply being religious.
Quote
I saw no substantial reply to your very good observation that the US is about the only country on the planet that is a convergence of nearly every single culture known.
Probably because it wasn’t very noteworthy at all, off the top of my head…
Canada
France
Britain
Sweden
Switzerland
Netherlands
Denmark
Australia
New Zealand
None of which are planning to build a giant wall…
Amazon 7
QuoteProbably because it wasn’t very noteworthy at all, off the top of my head…
Canada
France
Britain
Sweden
Switzerland
Netherlands
Denmark
Australia
New Zealand
None of those countries even comes close to the diversity .. especially in raw numbers to the diversity you find in the US.
Some of them like the UK and France have some significant numbers of ethnic minorities from former colonies... but NOTHING like the influx of peoples from all over you find here...and YES I have actually travelled to every one of those countries so I have a bit more of a perspective on it than getting my information from the internet.
I have travelled thruout the US.. to all 50 states and to all of the provinces of Canada as well... I travel quite a bit. Most of those you list are fairly homogenous in their ethnic makeup.
You're right about the diversity. Oz would probably be next on the list and as % probably very similar to the US (except for the ex-slave input).
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
QuoteQuoteProbably because it wasn’t very noteworthy at all, off the top of my head…
Canada
France
Britain
Sweden
Switzerland
Netherlands
Denmark
Australia
New Zealand
None of those countries even comes close to the diversity .. especially in raw numbers to the diversity you find in the US.
Some of them like the UK and France have some significant numbers of ethnic minorities from former colonies... but NOTHING like the influx of peoples from all over you find here...and YES I have actually travelled to every one of those countries so I have a bit more of a perspective on it than getting my information from the internet.
I have travelled thruout the US.. to all 50 states and to all of the provinces of Canada as well... I travel quite a bit. Most of those you list are fairly homogenous in their ethnic makeup.
Congradulations you are slightly more diverse
White
US 74%
UK 85%
AUS 92%
All the countries are in the same bracket of diversity and attitudes towards immigration with the exception of you guys wanting that big wall
Amazon 7
You are forgetting that that white component is composed of groups from EVERY country where caucasians came from... ALL of Europe and near Asia...India etc...
We also have far more Asians than those others.. and WAY more Africans.. and First Nations peoples have made a comeback from where they were 100 years ago.
Within each of those ethnic supergroups there are vast differences in culture and source country.
We also have far more Asians than those others.. and WAY more Africans.. and First Nations peoples have made a comeback from where they were 100 years ago.
Within each of those ethnic supergroups there are vast differences in culture and source country.
rehmwa 2
QuoteYou are forgetting that that white component is composed of groups from EVERY country where caucasians came from... ALL of Europe and near Asia...India etc...
We also have far more Asians than those others.. and WAY more Africans.. and First Nations peoples have made a comeback from where they were 100 years ago.
Don't even try. Don't you know? All caucasians are exactly the same
. There is absolutely no cultural difference between a white Cajun, a white New Yorker, a white Aussie, a white Frenchman.
Apparently, the diversity of the individual is meaningless, only the pigment of your skin defines a person.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Amazon 7
Hell what would a red headed freckled mutt like me know... some of my ancestors got here about 14000 years ago... and then the new comers immigrated about 300 years ago into the Carolinas from Scotland and Ireland and I think a German snuck in there somewhere too on my fathers side.
rehmwa 2
QuoteHell what would a red headed freckled mutt like me know... some of my ancestors got here about 14000 years ago... and then the new comers immigrated about 300 years ago into the Carolinas from Scotland and Ireland and I think a German snuck in there somewhere too on my fathers side.
got it, you go in the "white" bucket - It's good to know, now I know exactly everything about you and can judge you and predict your every move.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
QuoteQuoteHell what would a red headed freckled mutt like me know... some of my ancestors got here about 14000 years ago... and then the new comers immigrated about 300 years ago into the Carolinas from Scotland and Ireland and I think a German snuck in there somewhere too on my fathers side.
got it, you go in the "white" bucket - It's good to know, now I know exactly everything about you and can judge you and predict your every move.
I like buckets. They make things orderly. And that means I can do less thinking. And more drinking.
Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.
I will concede those are all valid points you have made
This being the original point of discussion I feel it necessary to point out that the countries I listed DO have a representation of almost all cultures and races and you guys are now just arguing that the U.S has more.
So great the U.S has more, excellent, it also has a much larger population. The rest of the west still has equal immigration policies and wide representations of world culture.
Quote
I saw no substantial reply to your very good observation that the US is about the only country on the planet that is a convergence of nearly every single culture known.
This being the original point of discussion I feel it necessary to point out that the countries I listed DO have a representation of almost all cultures and races and you guys are now just arguing that the U.S has more.
So great the U.S has more, excellent, it also has a much larger population. The rest of the west still has equal immigration policies and wide representations of world culture.
rehmwa 2
QuoteI like buckets. They make things orderly. And that means I can do less thinking. And more drinking.
But not drinking out of buckets. With people in there it gets kind of filthy.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
QuoteQuoteI like buckets. They make things orderly. And that means I can do less thinking. And more drinking.
But not drinking out of buckets. With people in there it gets kind of filthy.
Especially whities. Everyone knows all whities are dirty bastards.
I like to drink from a freshly bought bucket. or perhaps a mug of some sort.
Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.
billvon 2,989
>Everyone knows all whities are dirty bastards.
Lord loves a working man. Don't trust whitey. Shit, shine-ola.
Lord loves a working man. Don't trust whitey. Shit, shine-ola.
Being part of the military only means you are trained to do your specific job and are familiar with military customs and courtesies. As I said before at no time in my military training have I ever been conditioned to think a certain way, I have always been free to hold my own opinion. You have absolutely nothing to back up your claims of my brainwashing other than the typical "you don't believe what I believe so therefore you have been brainwashed". That is a pretty weak argument my friend.
I've never said that I know more than everyone elsejust because I'm on the groundd watching it happen. I have however stated that I have the opportunity to get a better perspective of what's going on because I get to see things happen and take affect first hand. Not to mention that I am privvy to everything that the media does not get its hands on as well as all the things they conveniantly filter out so everything fits the image they are trying to portray. All media outlets do this not just the extremist ones, even some of my favorite news stations do this. Yes some are better than others at just reporting the facts, but it's always "filtered" to some extent.
The world's super power uses its own military for a countless number o reasons. Sometimes it is called upon by the international community to remedy a situation that can have negative impacts on innocent people, and sometimes it decides on its own to use it for its own interest. Simply because I say that being the worlds super power comes with added responsibility in no way implies that I have been brainwashed as you claim.
for someone being brand new to these forums you sure like to shoot of at the mouth a lot to people you know nothing about while you hide behind a profile that's not even filled out. I have quite a bit more justifying reasons than you to make a claim that you have been brainwashed by an extreme leftist organization but I decline to make comments like that seeing as how I haven't had a chance to figure you out yet. For someone who claims to have so much higher education(the degrees listed in your profile) you sure draw conclusions awfully quick and with very little substantiating data. But what would i know, I'm just a brainwashed knuckle-dragging ground pounder stuck in Iraq because I didn't do well in school right
--Dwight D. Eisenhower
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