guns in america

[Amazon 7]

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USA had 11.5 times the homicde rate per capita then Japan, now what implication do you want to draw from Japans strict anti gun laws? That one guy got through the system?

Understanding the Japanese culture is highly recommended.... its a VERY homogenous culture co mpared to the USA where you have large diversity in ethnic groups from ALL over the world and a lack of homogenous culture going back a couple thousand years in the same location.

[willard 0]

My point was a very simple one also. Their law did not stop that man from getting a gun and killing. What part of that don't you understand??

Maybe their laws have stopped countless murders...we don't know that, do we? The only way to know would be to compare their crime rates before and after their laws were passed. (It would also be helpful to be able to read the minds of potential criminals) Since that isn't what my contention dealt with and I have better things to do I'll leave that research up to you if you want to know the answer. While you're at it look up the incidence of murder by knife, baseball bat, rock, sewer pipe, or whatever else you like and compare Japan's statistics to those here in the U.S. I think you'll find that murder in their society, by any means, is much lower than ours.

[Amazon 7]

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While you're at it look up the incidence of murder by knife, baseball bat, rock, sewer pipe, or whatever else you like and compare Japan's statistics to those here in the U.S.

DUDE.. do not forget death by all the ninja's

[willard 0]

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While you're at it look up the incidence of murder by knife, baseball bat, rock, sewer pipe, or whatever else you like and compare Japan's statistics to those here in the U.S.

DUDE.. do not forget death by all the ninja's

OOPS!
Add "Death by Ninja" to the list. (In "Good Guys Wear Black" Chuck Norris said that Ninjas were outlawed hundreds of years ago.)

[NCclimber 0]

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If you actually read the article it says:

"The shooting was RARE in a country where handguns are strictly banned and only five politicians are known to have been killed since World War II."(my emphasis)

number of murders in Japan per 1000 is .00499
numbers of murders in USa per 1000 is .0428
USA murder rate is 11.5 times higher than in Japan

11.5? I got 8.57.

At least you were close.

[JohnRich 4]

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USA had 11.5 times the homicde rate per capita then Japan, now what implication do you want to draw from Japans strict anti gun laws?

It's not the gun laws, it's the culture. Yep, America has a sub-segment of their society that is violent. No doubt about it.

To reinforce that "culture" idea, note that Japanese-Americans, with full access to all the firearms they want here in the U.S., murder each other at the same low rate as do the Japanese back home in Japan, where they have no access to guns at all. If easy access to guns was responsible for murder, then Japanese-Americans should commit murder at a higher rate than their fellow citizens back home in Japan. But they don't! This is further proof that a propensity to use guns for murder is caused by culture, rather than the mere availability of guns.

But it's a lot easier to just blame guns, because no one wants to admit that there is something wrong with our culture, and actually do something about that. That would be too much work, and it might offend someone...

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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USA had 11.5 times the homicde rate per capita then Japan, now what implication do you want to draw from Japans strict anti gun laws?

It's not the gun laws, it's the culture. Yep, America has a sub-segment of their society that is violent. No doubt about it.

To reinforce that "culture" idea, note that Japanese-Americans, with full access to all the firearms they want here in the U.S., murder each other at the same low rate as do the Japanese back home in Japan, where they have no access to guns at all. If easy access to guns was responsible for murder, then Japanese-Americans should commit murder at a higher rate than their fellow citizens back home in Japan. But they don't! This is further proof that a propensity to use guns for murder is caused by culture, rather than the mere availability of guns.

But it's a lot easier to just blame guns, because no one wants to admit that there is something wrong with our culture, and actually do something about that. That would be too much work, and it might offend someone...

Some doctors compared homicide rates between Seattle and Vancouver in the eighties to demonstrate that America's gun laws caused problems.

Their actual statistics showed that white people in Seattle are no more likely to be murdered (6.2 per 100,000) than the same people in Vancouver (6.4).

10% of our population is black with a 36.6 per 100,000 murder rate versus .5% of theirs at 9.5 per 100,000.

[freethefly 6]

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It's not the gun laws, it's the culture. Yep, America has a sub-segment of their society that is violent. No doubt about it.

No doubt, the US is an extremely violent country compared to other countries. Hell, this country glorifies violence. Video games made it look cool to just kill for the sake of killing. Movies has shown a generation the cool gangsta way to hold a gun when you're popping a cap in some fools ass. Rap music has shown that it is cool to slap a ho or to kill anyone who gets in your way. It is not the fault of the gun but the fault of society that allowed this image that violence is cool to grow into what it is today.
Sure, there where murders back in the 60's and 70's when I was growing up but, not at the level it is today. I grew up with guns. I've owned shotguns, pistols (loved my Colt Combat Commander), rifles and a few assualt rifles (an Uzi and a Mini 14 that had a pistol grip and a folding stock. .223's are fun to shoot. Traded the mini for the uzi. Sold the uzi and bought a Ruger 357 double combo and an old nickel winchester model 94. The 94 was stolen when my house was broke into. These days my only gun is my deer rifle.) By far we were nowhere near as violent as young people are today. A school fight was a fist fight not some nutcase shooting up the school because someone made fun of him. When we fought guys from another neighborhood it was with our fist not guns. Something is terribly wrong and it is not the fault of the gun but the parents, the "entertainment" media and societies willingness to allow violence to be betrayed as cool.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[kelpdiver 2]

murder rates in the country in the 60s was just a smidge lower than now.
In the 70s it was nearly double what it is today.

Other aspects of violent crime show the rise you suggest, but not murder.

[freethefly 6]

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murder rates in the country in the 60s was just a smidge lower than now.
In the 70s it was nearly double what it is today.

Other aspects of violent crime show the rise you suggest, but not murder.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
I see the 90's being the worst to date and this decade has leveled and slightly below that of the 70's. The 60's came in with 9,110 murders in 1960 and went out with 14,760 in 1969. It was not double what it is today. The 70's came in with 16,000 and went out with 21,460. This decade has stayed within the 16,000 rate as of 2005. The 90's, by far, has been the worst.
Another interesting read is at
http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html
The relationship of murderer to victim graph is interesting. Seems you are more likely to be murdered by a friend than by a stranger.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[craddock 0]

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The relationship of murderer to victim graph is interesting. Seems you are more likely to be murdered by a friend than by a stranger.

I find that terribly hard to believe. Now if you said acquaintances then I say no shit! I would think that would be rather obvious to those in the living in the US. I have seen some of the larger sites claim numbers close to 75% of gun murders being gang/drug related. Take away the gang/drug murders and our gun homicide rate changes drastically. I worry all the time about my wife and child getting in an accident. I have never worried about them getting shot.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[freethefly 6]

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Now if you said acquaintances then I say no shit

I believe that friend is the same as acquantance as in people you know by name.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[kelpdiver 2]

you have to factor for population growth.

The 70s and 90s were equilivent, and much higher. The 00s was 10-20% higher than the 60s.

[philh 0]

"It's not the gun laws, it's the culture"

Well thats a very broad statement and a problematic one becuase it assumes the guns laws are seperate from the culture and they are not. If we assume that one of the problems with the USA is its unhelathy cultural love of firearms how would we be able to say its the culture, not the laws? the laws come form the culture.
What is interesting is that the if you look at nations that have similar income levels, similar political institutions and similar cultural influences (Music, movies, tv etc), such countries as those in Western Europe, Australasia etc (bascially G8 nations) - they all have much lower crime rates. So I woulld ask, what is it about their culture that you think is so dramatically different?

Actually as I was typing this I did think of one big cultural difference and that is religion. The USA has a much higher percentage of believers than other wealthy democracies, maybe its that if not the guns?


More importantly you assume that the gun crime in the USA is an either or thing, its either the gun laws or its the culture, you assume it cant be both. You assume the two cant interact and its very likley the true cause of the USa's crime rate is a mixture of more than one factor, the large amount of firearms being one of them, other cultural influences also playing their part.Let me ask a simple question lets suppose there are cultural influences in the USA not found in other similar nations that makes, for example, a teenager angry and want to murder dozens of people, will it be easier or mroe difficult for him to do it if he has easier access to firearms?

I wonder if Europe banned high perfromance canopies and the USA was swarming with them and the USA had 8.5 time the skydiving fatality rate would you deny the canopy difference could be a factor?

"To reinforce that "culture" idea, note that Japanese-Americans, with full access to all the firearms they want here in the U.S., murder each other at the same low rate as do the Japanese back home in Japan,"

Well you have just contradicted yourself because presumably Japanese in the USA are more subject to American culture than Japanese in Japan; so if it were cultural one would expect them to have a higher crime rate in the USA and you have just pointed out they dont.

By the way I did screw my calcs USa's homicide rate is 8.5 not 11.5 higher , sorry but I dont think it alters the point .
Yes the anti gun laws didnt stop one person getting a gun, but I dont know a single law in the world that has never been broken by one its citizens. To criticise Japans gun laws as innefective because they failed in one occasion is utterly ridiculous.

[philh 0]

"No doubt, the US is an extremely violent country compared to other countries. Hell, this country glorifies violence. Video games made it look cool to just kill for the sake of killing. Movies has shown a generation the cool gangsta way to hold a gun when you're popping a cap in some fools ass. Rap music has shown that it is cool to slap a ho or to kill anyone who gets in your way. It is not the fault of the gun but the fault of society that allowed this image "

Im sorry but violent video games and movies dominate European and Asian culture as well, and rap music is very popular also; but yet you still see a huge disparity in the crime rate.I would try another cultrual influebnce if i were you.

[philh 0]

As Im sure you would have seen by now the killer has released a manifesto. There was one cultural influence he did reference:

"Thanks to you, I die, like Jesus Christ, to inspire generations of the weak and the defenseless people."

Im sure if he said I die like Tupac Shakur everyone would have come out blaimg rap music or if he had mentioned Grand Theft Auto they would be blaming video games. but as you can see he mentioned Christ you think the same logic will extend? I doubt it.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Blaming Charlton Heston
With a view to Monday's deadly shooting rampage at Virginia Tech, European newspapers are blaming the lack of gun control measures in the United States and implying that Charlton Heston is indirectly responsible for the scope of the killings.

Mr. Heston's reply to the accusations:

"Get your paws off of me, you damn dirty ape!"

Speed Racer
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