Interesting 2005 Article about Virginia Tech

[Douva 0]

http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wb/xp-21770

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[mnealtx 0]

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A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Ouch...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[DJL 235]

I don't know where everyone went to school but I definitely wouldn't want functional firearms being carried and stored on campus by my fellow students. There is NO reason to carry a gun to class. My perspective is that of a VMI grad. I slept with an M14 five feet from my bed; all weapons had the firing pin removed. Personal firearms were kept in the armory or the range where they'd be secure. We considered the idea of someone wanting to keep their gun in their room or on them as pretty nerdy since we understood enough about them to know that it's more of a Bevis and Butthead "Guns are Cool" motivation other than someone actually needing their gat to protect us all from the bad guys.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[willard 0]

No reason at all. Unless you don't want to be a victim.
An M-14 without a firing pin is nothing but a stick.

[Skyrad 0]

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There is NO reason to carry a gun to class.

I can think of 32 people who might disagree.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[DJL 235]

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There is NO reason to carry a gun to class.

I can think of 32 people who might disagree.

To that I say - have some stones, you're not getting shot. I'll go ahead and put money on it. If either you or Willard get shot and killed in a mass murder situation then I'll walk across the UK buck naked and playing my dick like an air guitar while singing Jingle Bells at the top of my lungs. So let it be written, so let it be done.

Again, NO reason to have a gun in class.

Willard, an M14 without a pin is really great for making synchronized clicking sounds when we fixed bayonettes during parades. Otherwise it was a fucking nuisance that only got me demerits if it wasn't clean enough.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[willard 0]

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There is NO reason to carry a gun to class.

I can think of 32 people who might disagree.

To that I say - have some stones, you're not getting shot. I'll go ahead and put money on it. If either you or Willard get shot and killed in a mass murder situation then I'll walk across the UK buck naked and playing my dick like an air guitar while singing Jingle Bells at the top of my lungs. So let it be written, so let it be done.

Again, NO reason to have a gun in class.

Willard, an M14 without a pin is really great for making synchronized clicking sounds when we fixed bayonettes during parades. Otherwise it was a fucking nuisance that only got me demerits if it wasn't clean enough.

I would agree with you 100% that there will probably never be any reason for any one particular student to use a weapon, but there is still a reason to carry one. Two different concepts.

Ok, so an M-14 without a firing pin is not just a stick, it's a noisy stick. A noisy stick that must remain spotless.

[Axe_Murderer 0]

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There is NO reason to carry a gun to class.

I can think of 32 people who might disagree.

To that I say - have some stones, you're not getting shot. I'll go ahead and put money on it. If either you or Willard get shot and killed in a mass murder situation then I'll walk across the UK buck naked and playing my dick like an air guitar while singing Jingle Bells at the top of my lungs. So let it be written, so let it be done.

Again, NO reason to have a gun in class.

Willard, an M14 without a pin is really great for making synchronized clicking sounds when we fixed bayonettes during parades. Otherwise it was a fucking nuisance that only got me demerits if it wasn't clean enough.

any chance you could play some Hendrix instead?

[quade 4]

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There is NO reason to carry a gun to class.

I can think of 32 people who might disagree.

Do you honestly believe the myth that people being armed would have prevented this?

Lemme ask you something; How many guns does the Secret Service carry around the President of the United States?

Follow up question; How many Presidents have been shot at?

I'll admit that once the shooting has started being armed might have some effect on the length the shooting spree continues, but it does absolutely nothing to prevent it in the first place.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

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A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Ouch...

I just watched a news report stating that if a judge had done his job in 2005 this man would have not been able to legaly buy the guns he used

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Douva 0]

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There is NO reason to carry a gun to class.

I can think of 32 people who might disagree.

Do you honestly believe the myth that people being armed would have prevented this?

Lemme ask you something; How many guns does the Secret Service carry around the President of the United States?

Follow up question; How many Presidents have been shot at?

I'll admit that once the shooting has started being armed might have some effect on the length the shooting spree continues, but it does absolutely nothing to prevent it in the first place.

You're right. Arming civilians won't ensure that nobody dies, but it will help prevent the type of MASS shooting we saw on Monday.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Arming civilians won't ensure that nobody dies, but it will help prevent the type of MASS shooting we saw on Monday.

The type of arming of civilians you're contemplating would have to be a mass arming of civilians. That may be an interesting abstraction for the sake of discussion, but on a practical level, that simply will never happen. Thus, what you propose will never be a viable Plan A.

[rushmc 23]

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There is NO reason to carry a gun to class.

I can think of 32 people who might disagree.

Do you honestly believe the myth that people being armed would have prevented this?

Lemme ask you something; How many guns does the Secret Service carry around the President of the United States?

Follow up question; How many Presidents have been shot at?

I'll admit that once the shooting has started being armed might have some effect on the length the shooting spree continues, but it does absolutely nothing to prevent it in the first place.

You're right. Arming civilians won't ensure that nobody dies, but it will help prevent the type of MASS shooting we saw on Monday.

You are right on the money. To date, no police officer has been killed by a person legally carrying. Just the oposite, 3 police officers are known to be alive because a legally armed person was in the right place at the right time.
The same could have happened here. There is a case in the us were a student had weapon in his trunk. He went and got his gun and is credited with saving many lives
The attack on guns was easily forseen. The real reason for all of this will be hidden for policitical advantage

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Arming civilians won't ensure that nobody dies, but it will help prevent the type of MASS shooting we saw on Monday.

The type of arming of civilians you're contemplating would have to be a mass arming of civilians. That may be an interesting abstraction for the sake of discussion, but on a practical level, that simply will never happen. Thus, what you propose will never be a viable Plan A.

In some states in the US 1 in 6 have license to carry

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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Arming civilians won't ensure that nobody dies, but it will help prevent the type of MASS shooting we saw on Monday.

The type of arming of civilians you're contemplating would have to be a mass arming of civilians. That may be an interesting abstraction for the sake of discussion, but on a practical level, that simply will never happen. Thus, what you propose will never be a viable Plan A.

No, you just need one student (or professor) in the entire class. 1 in 30? That's far less than the number of gun owners in the country (> 1 in 4), or CCW carriers (??)

It's ridiculous to say that there is NO reason to carry a gun. This incident emphatically blows that out of the water. How much greater than 0 is still open to your own beliefs.

Or if we want to look at real world, go back to the U of Texas shootings in 1966. What held the shooter at bay after the initial flurry? students with their rifles.

[craddock 0]

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Lemme ask you something; How many guns does the Secret Service carry around the President of the United States?

Follow up question; How many Presidents have been shot at?

Are you suggesting that the armed protection of the President does nothing to prevent someone shooting at him.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[quade 4]

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To date, no police officer has been killed by a person legally carrying. Just the oposite, 3 police officers are known to be alive because a legally armed person was in the right place at the right time.

But it's a delusional Rambo fantasy and makes about as much sense as counting on a private pilot being aboard during a crisis on an airliner.

Sure, it's happened a few times and with the assistance of many, many other professionals, but my guess is that most people simply couldn't pull it off.

Likewise, I seriously doubt that people not trained in combat or police tactics would do more good than harm. Further, once police do arrive at the scene, how the hell do they figure out who the "good guys" are from the "bad guys"?

Again, I realise it's a very popular Rambo fantasy, but the reality is, that's all it is.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

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Lemme ask you something; How many guns does the Secret Service carry around the President of the United States?

Follow up question; How many Presidents have been shot at?

Are you suggesting that the armed protection of the President does nothing to prevent someone shooting at him.

Not in those words, but to a certain extent.

Anybody that is determined to cause harm AND end their life in the process of doing so will not be deterred simply by armed guards.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Arming civilians won't ensure that nobody dies, but it will help prevent the type of MASS shooting we saw on Monday.

The type of arming of civilians you're contemplating would have to be a mass arming of civilians.

One person who has time to get off shots before the bad guy shoots them would be enough. Given a couple of people as backups in case that happens and a class size of 25 students you're looking at arming just 12% of the adult population.

80,000,000 of us already own guns which is more than 25% of the entire US population.

We don't need a massive increase in armed people; we just need those who already have guns to have them handy for more of their day.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Likewise, I seriously doubt that people not trained in combat or police tactics would do more good than harm. Further, once police do arrive at the scene, how the hell do they figure out who the "good guys" are from the "bad guys"?

The armed victims should be in contact with the police dispatcher via cellular phone and should be able to drop their weapons before the police enter the room.

Where that's failed, any one who drops their weapon once ordered to is a good guy.

Any one who doesn't isn't.

Some police officers (hopefully wearing body armor) might get shot figuring this out, but the police are being paid to protect the public at some risk to their own personal safety.

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Again, I realise it's a very popular Rambo fantasy, but the reality is, that's all it is.

According to the National Crime and Victimization surveys, victims chances of injury are lowest when they protect themselves with a firearm compared to unarmed resistance, resisting with another weapon, or complying with the attacker's wishes.

The best way to protect yourself from criminals is to avoid situations where crime is likely. When you can't do that a firearm is the best way to protect yourself.

[livendive 8]

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Lemme ask you something; How many guns does the Secret Service carry around the President of the United States?

Follow up question; How many Presidents have been shot at?

I'll admit that once the shooting has started being armed might have some effect on the length the shooting spree continues, but it does absolutely nothing to prevent it in the first place.

How can anyone possibly prove one way or another how many assassination attempts there would have been on the President without his armed Secret Service detail?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rushmc 23]

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To date, no police officer has been killed by a person legally carrying. Just the oposite, 3 police officers are known to be alive because a legally armed person was in the right place at the right time.

But it's a delusional Rambo fantasy and makes about as much sense as counting on a private pilot being aboard during a crisis on an airliner.

Sure, it's happened a few times and with the assistance of many, many other professionals, but my guess is that most people simply couldn't pull it off.

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EDITED TO ADD!! The three situations documented show single cop, single civi and no one else around. So much for your fantasy

Likewise, I seriously doubt that people not trained in combat or police tactics would do more good than harm. Further, once police do arrive at the scene, how the hell do they figure out who the "good guys" are from the "bad guys"?

Again, I realise it's a very popular Rambo fantasy, but the reality is, that's all it is.

Typical response however, the studies done show that those that pack break fewer laws (all laws) than those that don't. So, keep your PC labeling efforts to yourself as they are ingnored here. Facts are facts, gun laws only keep law abiding from owning or carrying guns, not criminals. Rambo fantasy? give me a fucking break and get real

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DaVinci 0]

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Do you honestly believe the myth that people being armed would have prevented this?

Lemme ask you something; How many guns does the Secret Service carry around the President of the United States?

Follow up question; How many Presidents have been shot at?

How many Presidents do you think WOULD be shot at if the Secret Service DIDN'T carry guns?

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But it's a delusional Rambo fantasy and makes about as much sense as counting on a private pilot being aboard during a crisis on an airliner.

Sure, it's happened a few times and with the assistance of many, many other professionals, but my guess is that most people simply couldn't pull it off.

Would you rather be on a plane with a private pilot at the yoke, or a Dentist?

[cloudseeker2001 0]

I believe it will come out that many people knew of this guys problems well in advance. And I am sure that it will come out that the campus cops/administration really fucked up by not locking down the campus.........I am pro gun, but I do not think that more people with guns would be better for future shootings-in this context. A person can be the victim most any where at any time and the best defense against becoming a victim is your eyes, ears and luck.........of course a person must also use their mind. And if someone really wants to get you, or an entire group of people, not much can be done to really prevent a person from reaching their goals. I think we will see more and more of this kind of behavior from a small percentage of our poplulation who feel left out so to speak. Fromm describes this very well in a book called The Sane Society.

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[cloudseeker2001 0]

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Do you honestly believe the myth that people being armed would have prevented this?

Lemme ask you something; How many guns does the Secret Service carry around the President of the United States?

Follow up question; How many Presidents have been shot at?

I'll admit that once the shooting has started being armed might have some effect on the length the shooting spree continues, but it does absolutely nothing to prevent it in the first place.

How many Presidents do you think WOULD be shot at if the Secret Service DIDN'T carry guns?

I had two SS agents pull MP5's on me one night at a hotel I worked at.......they sure enjoyed it too! They were not assigned to the Prez.....they were there for a foreign prez.

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"