Should people who are diagnosed as suicidal be allowed to buy guns?

[likearock 2]

If you're willing to kill yourself, you may just as well be willing to kill others as we've seen in recent event. Of course, there's no way to know if Cho would have obtained a gun illegally but should we be making it easy for people like that?

[Lindsey 0]

"Suicidal" is not a diagnosis. Depression is a diagnosis. Sometimes people who are depressed become suicidal, and when that happens and they see a physician or counselor, they're usually hospitalized, thus unable to buy a gun.

With treatment (and sometimes just time) depressive episodes and suicidal tendencies usually pass. If a person has frequent episodes of suicidality, then I'd feel uncomfortable with him/her buying a gun....not for society's sake, though, but for the individual's. I think there are many, many people who have had one or more episodes of suicidal thinking that nobody ever knows about. Many of them have guns. It's not so easy, or necessary imho, to restrict.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[billvon 3,063]

If you are diagnosed with a mental illness that renders you not responsible for your actions, or prone to violence or poor judgement, then you should not be able to legally buy weapons. "Suicidal?" I've never seen anyone "diagnosed" as suicidal.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

"Suicidal?" I've never seen anyone "diagnosed" as suicidal.

I have, it's usually not provided by mental health professionals, though. It's by coroners.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SpeedRacer 1]

I heard on the radio today that Cho had been held in a mental institution. Supposedly they ask you about that on a form when you buy a gun, & Cho lied about it.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[billvon 3,063]

>I have, it's usually not provided by mental health professionals, though. It's by coroners.

Ah, well, in that case, dead people should definitely not be allowed to buy guns. They have terrible aim.

[beowulf 1]

Quote

I heard on the radio today that Cho had been held in a mental institution. Supposedly they ask you about that on a form when you buy a gun, & Cho lied about it.

That is not accurate. I read on CNN that the question was whether or not he had been involuntarily committed. If so then he would be ineligiable to buy a gun. He was not involuntarily committed.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Quote

I heard on the radio today that Cho had been held in a mental institution. Supposedly they ask you about that on a form when you buy a gun, & Cho lied about it.

That is not accurate. I read on CNN that the question was whether or not he had been involuntarily committed. If so then he would be ineligiable to buy a gun. He was not involuntarily committed.

But still, in 2005 he was declared by a judge to be "a danger of imminent harm to himself" due to mental illness. Not just an opinion of 1 doctor, mind you, but a formal adjudication by a court. And still, under Virginia's laws, there was no safety net to impede such a person from easily purchasing his weapons.

[lawrocket 3]

Yes, because people who have a diagnosis should have the right to privacy.

- SHould people diagnosed with heart disease or diabetes be allowed to eat fast food?
- Should people with a history of injuring themselves be allowed to skydive?
- Should people with a history of violence be allowed to marry?
- Should people with a history of venreal disease be allowed to have sex?

See, for each of these things, a medical diagnosis is necessary. Sorry, but I find the person's privacy to be paramount. Some doctor diagnoses me with depression and alerts authorities of the diagnosis? That doctor would be fucked.

Some doctor alerts my local bar that I have ADHD and therefore should be kept close track of? That doctor would be fucked.

Unless I present a direct and stated threat that I am about to commit an act of violence, then no doctor better be reporting me or anybody to authorities.

Period.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

>I have, it's usually not provided by mental health professionals, though. It's by coroners.

Ah, well, in that case, dead people should definitely not be allowed to buy guns. They have terrible aim.

zombies are people too - colorful people too - they always leave a little bit of themselves everywhere they go

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[crwtom 0]

Quote

Yes, because people who have a diagnosis should have the right to privacy.

- SHould people diagnosed with heart disease or diabetes be allowed to eat fast food?
- Should people with a history of injuring themselves be allowed to skydive?
- Should people with a history of violence be allowed to marry?
- Should people with a history of venreal disease be allowed to have sex?.

In points 1,2,4 the person making the choice would hurt only
him/herself - if guns were suicide machines killing only the
operators this would be an OK comparison.

They are however desiogned to kill people other than the operator.

Cheers, T

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[shropshire 0]

Yes but with only one round.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Quote

- Should people with a history of venreal disease be allowed to have sex?.

In points 1,2,4 the person making the choice would hurt only
him/herself -

I'll take exception to your assessment of #4's impact on others - but your general point is right on IMO


Edit: I voted Yes, because the question was "suicidal", not "homocidal"

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

in 2005 he was declared by a judge to be "a danger of imminent harm to himself" due to mental illness. Not just an opinion of 1 doctor, mind you, but a formal adjudication by a court.

This is something entirely different that a treating health care provider diagnosing it. With this it becomes a public record. In this sense, was there a system in place informing any enforcement agency of it that would prevent him from buying a gun? Did the system fail? Apparently, he passed a background check easily.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

I also think that there should be a waiting period and new questions on the form...FORMER GIRLFRIENDS as references.... in which times they could conatact the women and find out just how much of a stalker the guy is. AND.. if you cant get a date like this guy obviously didn't( how many women were totally creeped out by the guys behavior) you dont get a gun either.

Almost every last one of the loons like this that perpetrate these crimes.. have the social skills in interacting with women that an ameoba would have.

[Lindsey 0]

In points 1,2,4 the person making the choice would hurt only
him/herself - if guns were suicide machines killing only the
operators this would be an OK comparison.

They are however desiogned to kill people other than the operator.

That's true. But a person with a history of depression/suicidal thoughts is probably no more likely than the general population to use a gun to commit homicide. In my experience I can't think of a time when that's even been a concern when dealing with a suicidal person.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[craddock 0]

So gay people shouldn't own guns?

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[billvon 3,063]

> So gay people shouldn't own guns?

Lesbians can.

[freethefly 6]

Quote

If you're willing to kill yourself, you may just as well be willing to kill others as we've seen in recent event. Of course, there's no way to know if Cho would have obtained a gun illegally but should we be making it easy for people like that?

In 1995 I was diagnosed with depression that led to suicide attempts. The police took my rifle during this period. I signed for them to turn it over to a friend who held it untill the depression passed. There is no such thing as a suicidal diagnosis. Suicide is the end result of severe depression. I would venture to say that every human, at one time or another, has had a suicidal thought. With most it is just a fleeting thought but, a thought none the less.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[SuperKat 0]

Quote

But still, in 2005 he was declared by a judge to be "a danger of imminent harm to himself" due to mental illness. Not just an opinion of 1 doctor, mind you, but a formal adjudication by a court. And still, under Virginia's laws, there was no safety net to impede such a person from easily purchasing his weapons.

I read it in today's daily news that when Cho replied "NO" to being committed to a mental facility on his federal and state application, the computer background check failed to indicate that he was lying.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[Amazon 7]

Quote

So gay people shouldn't own guns?

How many gay stalkers have you heard of that have restraining orders against them???

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I also think that there should be a waiting period

BUT I'M ANGRY RIGHT NOW

(for those less civilized folks, that's a Simpson's quote)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[crwtom 0]

Quote

Quote

In points 1,2,4 the person making the choice would hurt only
him/herself -

I'll take exception to your assessment of #4's impact on others - but your general point is right on IMO

my bad - didn't read closely enough. FWIW, though, knowlingly
exposing other people to HIV is often also considered criminal
even if no infection results.

Quote

Edit: I voted Yes, because the question was "suicidal", not "homocidal"

Don't care to much about the question (and didn't vote) - I
just ticked off by the analogies of gun rights with freedom of
making personal choices that affect only the one making the
choices. In a nut shell:

You have every right to do to yourself whatever you want to -
you have no right whatsoever to put other people in harms way.


Cheesr, T

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I just ticked off by the analogies of gun rights with freedom of making personal choices that affect only the one making the choices. In a nut shell:

You have every right to do to yourself whatever you want to - you have no right whatsoever to put other people in harms way.

So, then you have no issue with gun ownership. You have issues with those that use their property in a criminal manner.

Did I get your position correct?

Edit: on a side note and in response to no one in particular - using a gun for suicide seems to be a messy way to do it and I think it's rude to those that find the body and have to clean it up.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skydyvr 0]

I believe there should be a waiting period during which time the applicant's Internet forum posting history is investigated.

If it is disvovered that the applicant has a sustained history of babbling incoherency, the sale should be denied.

. . =(_8^(1)