Austrailia drought... Global Warming or Blip?

[shropshire 0]

Australia is currently going through a massive drought, and of course, most of the news reports are putting it down as a Global Warming event.

Could be or it could just be a random weather blip (we have them from time to time)?
How does it compare to say the Dust Bowl event in 1930's USA (or was that simply due to poor agricultural engineering)?

Thoughts please?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[mikkey 0]

We had droughts like this before, its just a long time since and there are so many more people and so much more agriculture using the water.....

There is no evidence this has to do with GW, we had some decades with more overall rainfall then previous, that why people are shocked now.

Unfortunately the State governments who are responsible for water policy have been sitting on their hands for a long time and it is hitting very hard now and the only action they are taking is to enforce restrictions, but we cant save us out of the crisis. One example: The current wate storages (dams) we have were mostly build in the 1950's to 1970's and the population we have now is about double...

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[shropshire 0]

Cheers Mikkey. That's kind of what I was thinking... but you know how the news folk love to work up a story and I'm sure their hot air is a major contributing factor

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[philh 0]

No one weather event is evidence of global warming. Aggregate data is what counts. Mosts scientists agree the globe is warming and droughts like these may become more common as a reult but any one event is not evidence either way.

[shropshire 0]

Another good point.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Royd 0]

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No one weather event is evidence of global warming. Aggregate data is what counts. Mosts scientists agree the globe is warming and droughts like these may become more common as a reult but any one event is not evidence either way.

Doesn't more heat mean more water evaporation, which means more clouds, which means more rain?

I believe it's called a cycle.

[narcimund 0]

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Doesn't more heat mean more water evaporation, which means more clouds, which means more rain?

I believe it's called a cycle.

You can always identify the people who aren't particularly interested in being right. They express unshakable opinions about complex matters based on simplistic reasoning without benefit of actual information.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Gawain 0]

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We had droughts like this before, its just a long time since and there are so many more people and so much more agriculture using the water.....

There is no evidence this has to do with GW, we had some decades with more overall rainfall then previous, that why people are shocked now.

We have cycles in the US that we call "El Nino" or "La Nina". El nino phases have an excessive amount of rainfall/precipitation, La Nina, the opposite. Do you guys down there use similar terminology?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[ErricoMalatesta 0]

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We had droughts like this before, its just a long time since and there are so many more people and so much more agriculture using the water.....

There is no evidence this has to do with GW, we had some decades with more overall rainfall then previous, that why people are shocked now.

We have cycles in the US that we call "El Nino" or "La Nina". Do you guys down there use similar terminology?

You realise Australia doesn't share its boarder with any spanish speaking countries right?

[Gawain 0]

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We had droughts like this before, its just a long time since and there are so many more people and so much more agriculture using the water.....

There is no evidence this has to do with GW, we had some decades with more overall rainfall then previous, that why people are shocked now.

We have cycles in the US that we call "El Nino" or "La Nina". Do you guys down there use similar terminology?

You realise Australia doesn't share its boarder with any spanish speaking countries right?

Indeed, that's why I asked if "similar terminology" was used to describe weather patterns that have a broad effect. See how that works?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[ErricoMalatesta 0]

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We had droughts like this before, its just a long time since and there are so many more people and so much more agriculture using the water.....

There is no evidence this has to do with GW, we had some decades with more overall rainfall then previous, that why people are shocked now.

We have cycles in the US that we call "El Nino" or "La Nina". Do you guys down there use similar terminology?

You realise Australia doesn't share its boarder with any spanish speaking countries right?

Indeed, that's why I asked if "similar terminology" was used to describe weather patterns that have a broad effect. See how that works?

Ok

They probably use terms such as "excessive rain" and "drought"...

[Axe_Murderer 0]

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Doesn't more heat mean more water evaporation, which means more clouds, which means more rain?

I believe it's called a cycle.

You can always identify the people who aren't particularly interested in being right. They express unshakable opinions about complex matters based on simplistic reasoning without benefit of actual information.

pardon? could you use words with less syllables in please?

[kelpdiver 2]

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We have cycles in the US that we call "El Nino" or "La Nina". El nino phases have an excessive amount of rainfall/precipitation, La Nina, the opposite. Do you guys down there use similar terminology?

El nino relates to the water temps in the eastern Pacific along Peru and Ecuador. Typically results in higher rain for California. We had a weak pattern this year. El Nino also corresponds to droughts in the Western Pacific, so it could be as simple as that. Note however that California did not get the typical rain levels.

Errico - be vary talking about subjects you know even less about. Australia is not near Latin America, but it's the same ocean.

[rushmc 23]

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Doesn't more heat mean more water evaporation, which means more clouds, which means more rain?

I believe it's called a cycle.

You can always identify the people who aren't particularly interested in being right. They express unshakable opinions about complex matters based on simplistic reasoning without benefit of actual information.

You can always identify the arogant by their PAs related to others thought processes

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mikkey 0]

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We had droughts like this before, its just a long time since and there are so many more people and so much more agriculture using the water.....

There is no evidence this has to do with GW, we had some decades with more overall rainfall then previous, that why people are shocked now.

We have cycles in the US that we call "El Nino" or "La Nina". El nino phases have an excessive amount of rainfall/precipitation, La Nina, the opposite. Do you guys down there use similar terminology?

Yes, we have been affected by El Nino as it influences the temperature of the Pacific. It has caused some lesser droughts in the past, but the current one has nothing to do with El Nino.

This one is so damaging because it has lasted for a couple of years. E.g. if we dont get a lot of rain down here in the State of Victoria this fall (reverse seasons) the government has to stop all water allocations to farmers and food prices could increase
by up to 500%.
Here in Melbourne we are down to 35% water storage, up in southern Queensland down to about 20%. In rural Victoria here many of the rivers and dams are empty. In Queensland they are not allowed to water gardens at all, we are allowed 2 hours a week. Melbourne is known for its gardens and parks and a lot of them are dying.... very sad.

The good news is that it rained heavily yesterday and its raining today. Long time since that happened.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[Gawain 0]

Seems like Australia is a prime investment opportunity for desalinization plant construction.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[mikkey 0]

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Seems like Australia is a prime investment opportunity for desalinization plant construction.

Spot on. Perth has already built one and Melbourne is looking at it. Issue is that it will be very expensive (3.5 Mill people in Melbourne) and consume a lot of energy - we have coal fired power plants (plus gas fired ones) - so the greenies would not like it. Also, price of water would more then double....

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[Royd 0]

Doesn't more heat mean more water evaporation, which means more clouds, which means more rain?

I believe it's called a cycle.

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You can always identify the people who aren't particularly interested in being right. They express unshakable opinions about complex matters based on simplistic reasoning without benefit of actual information.

Two years ago, here in Fl. we had plenty of rain and water was sitting everywhere. People were bitching. Now it's dry, we're several inches below the average, there's a 35,000 acre fire in Southern Georgia and people are bitching.

It's the cycles of life. Live with it.

[Royd 0]

Reply To
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Seems like Australia is a prime investment opportunity for desalinization plant construction.

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Spot on. Perth has already built one and Melbourne is looking at it. Issue is that it will be very expensive (3.5 Mill people in Melbourne) and consume a lot of energy - we have coal fired power plants (plus gas fired ones) - so the greenies would not like it. Also, price of water would more then double....

Maybe y'all should go nucular.

[virgin-burner 1]

all this discussions about globals warming from people with limited knowledge (me included) makes me somehow sick.

its a fact that the weather phenomenons have gone crazy lately.. floods and droughts, hurricanes and what not. the ice caps are massively breaking away. it is a known fact that this happened in earths history a couple of times. its also known, this hasnt happened in such a short period of time. we have blown gases into the atmosphere for the last 150yrs that are known to change things.

we fuckud up big time, and instead of looking into alternative energy, we're still discussing if those phenomenons are man made.. now, how stupid is this? and still some are whinging about gardens dying (no insult intended), while saying in the same sentence that all the energy comes from firing coal and gas..

maybe water should cost about 20 times it costs now? maybe oil should be about a 100 times more expensive as it is now? maybe that would teach us how we should treat our ressources, as its much likely that one day, we'll be left with nothing of it.. no more computers, cars,fancy food, mtv and what not. back to the caves, folks, thats where we came from, and thats where we'll be heading. and not a single chance to get back. and that only if we survive to this point..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[skydyvr 0]

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. . .we'll be left with nothing of it.. no more computers, cars,fancy food, mtv and what not.

Dayum . . . what's a nigga to do?

. . =(_8^(1)

[virgin-burner 1]

pimp mo' hoes!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[billvon 2,991]

>Doesn't more heat mean more water evaporation, which means more
>clouds, which means more rain?

In some places. Generally, warmer oceans mean more rain (more evaporation) warmer land means less rain (the water is evaporated and not replaced.) In addition, warmer temperatures change wind patterns; winds determine where ocean-evaporated moisture goes. Complex issue, weather.

[philh 0]

"Doesn't more heat mean more water evaporation, which means more clouds, which means more rain?
I believe it's called a cycle. "

Clouds have both positive and genative feedback processes.The negative feedback exists yes, more heat , more evaporation, more cover from solar radiation. But there are also positive feedback effects
, in particular water vapour can act as a greenhouse gas. Cloud feedback are very complicate and not fully understood.Thats one of the main reasons why climate models vary so much. However , the majority of models still predict the Earth warming above normal cyclical variation and this is a major cause of concern.

[Jasmin 0]

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We had droughts like this before, its just a long time since and there are so many more people and so much more agriculture using the water.....

There is no evidence this has to do with GW, we had some decades with more overall rainfall then previous, that why people are shocked now.

I beg to differ. I agree its not the same everywhere and some areas are getting enough water. But for some of the inland rural areas, we've not seen anything this bad before.

In some of our rural areas, rivers that have always flowed are now mere mud pools or worse, baked and scorched earth.

Families that were given some of the original free settler land grants or who have had long term farming leases, are walking away from their farms if they're lucky, or losing them to the bank if they're not. ie Families who've lived there for 4+ generations are no longer able to farm and the drought is the cause of a lot of this.

I don't think you can attribute it to any one factor, be it redistribution of water, el nino/la nina or greenhouse warming, but there's little doubt in the minds of many country folk as to whether its as bad the city-based media portray it to be.

Its heartbreaking to see the land so dry and barren.

xj

"I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both."