Jack Valenti died!

[grue 1]

Yayyyyy

Burn in hell, fuckface.

cavete terrae.

[Squeak 17]

ok Ill show complete ignorance who the hell is jack Valenti?

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[grue 1]

The motherfucker behind the DMCA and all sorts of other bullshit laws that end up telling people what they may or may not do with their own CDs and DVDs.

cavete terrae.

[Squeak 17]

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The motherfucker behind the DMCA and all sorts of other bullshit laws that end up telling people what they may or may not do with their own CDs and DVDs.

Oh one of the people who is trying to look after artists rights and company revenues, THAT Jack Valenti

That's a pretty extreme stance to take on a person for digital media laws You should probably go back to the USA Steve, you are no where near laid back enough for OZ

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[bob.dino 1]

Really? That man was a pain in the neck.

[grue 1]

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The motherfucker behind the DMCA and all sorts of other bullshit laws that end up telling people what they may or may not do with their own CDs and DVDs.

Oh one of the people who is trying to look after artists rights and company revenues, THAT Jack Valenti

That's a pretty extreme stance to take on a person for digital media laws You should probably go back to the USA Steve, you are no where near laid back enough for OZ

He doesn't care about artist rights, he cares abotu HIS money. They're stifling innovation and blaming companies for what users do. I don't pirate movies, but I want to copy the DVDs I own to my computer. That cocksucker would have me arrested for doing so, if he had his way. I don't believe in hell, but I kinda hope there is one and that he's there.

I'm NOT in favour of copyright violations. I AM in favour of fair use of media, which he and the rest of his fascist brigade are not. Same motherfuckers behind region encoding on DVDs, which is something that TRULY makes me angry.

cavete terrae.

[grue 1]

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Really? That man was a pain in the neck.

Someone has to be amazingly annoying for me to actually shout "HAHA! YES!!!!!" when I see on the news that the person died. This asshole was one of those people.

cavete terrae.

[DSE 5]

Good answer, IMO.
Jack Valenti was pres of the MPAA for over 30 years.
In his time, he helped make a lot of things happen, like rating systems that informed parents about film content.
Digital media vexed him, and for the most part (remember that I make my living as a producer of audio and visual media) I agree with him.
People that would say "I need to make a backup of my software/movie/music" and then let the "backup" live at their friends/relatives house...what is that about? Valenti made the comment of "If you buy a glass pitcher at the store and you break it a week later, do you go back to the store and request a free pitcher to replace it with? Of course not. You buy IT, you own IT, and not a copy of IT."
He also popularized the phrase "Pigs eat, hogs get slaughtered."
My fave? "Those that don't believe in intellectual property rights don't have any."
He might have been a bit militant, but when one side of the argument has swung so far to the right, a good left is likely required.

[grue 1]

How about those of us who want to use our DVDs in any way we please? I don't make copies for other people, but I want to be able to keep them on my computer. Same as making a tape for the car before cars had CD players. I bought a licence to the content, and I will fucking use it.

The guy was monopolistic shithead, and the earth is better off without him.

As for the MPAA ratings board? Fuck them too. They're a bunch of inconsistent fascists with nobody to answer to. They have no standards to adhere to, and pass judgment based on emotion. Their ratings make it nearly impossible to successfully release a film unless you submit the film FOR rating, which is a heinous load of bullshit because if they don't like the film for PERSONAL reasons they can make sure it doesn't get an appropriate rating.

The pitcher argument? It's fallacious in a number of ways. If I scratch a DVD, I don't demand a new one. But I can't make a copy of a pitcher, either. That's the same justification those assholes use for region encoding. I moved halfway aronud the world, I'm not going to re-buy 250 DVDs. GREED is the reason they put that shit in place.

He doesn'tdidn't care about intellectual property rights unless that property belongs to the MPAA. They always have, and always will, shit on independent studios and filmmakers because they can't find a way to take their money and rights away too.

cavete terrae.

[Frenchy68 0]

Although I have financially benefited from some of Valenti's stances, I wasn't a huge fan of his. HOWEVER...
The thinking behind region coding is due to the fact that not all movies are released at the same time worldwide. Should a DVD version of a movie be released in one market prior the actual feature being screened in another market, it is easy to understand that DVDs would be floading the latter market, and box office would drop quite significantly.
As for the inability for one to "copy" a DVD, that's pretty much a no brainer. For each person who does indeed make a copy for him/herself, there would be thousands of people making copies for distribution, and the DVD market would probably disappear within years.
This said, region free and security cracked DVD players can readily be found in the US for around USD $100...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[bob.dino 1]

Home users making one or two copies was never the issue. CSS and AACS aren't about stopping piracy - they're about controlling the user experience & making people pay multiple times for the same content.

Why can't I legally watch a DVD on Linux? Why do I have to sit through a minute of ads on a DVD I paid for? Why can't I legally put the DVD I own onto a hard drive and use my home media centre to watch it without having to get up and find a DVD that's been scratched silly and smeared with jam by the kids?

CSS and AACS are no problem for people duplicating by the million. All you have to do is duplicate the entire disk, bit for bit, and who cares if it contains copy protection. It simply doesn't matter.

I have sympathy for those looking to make careers in media, but not enough to put up with the luddite tendencies of the DVDCCA, the MPAA, and the RIAA.

edit: A better explanation of this.

[bob.dino 1]

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As for the inability for one to "copy" a DVD, that's pretty much a no brainer. For each person who does indeed make a copy for him/herself, there would be thousands of people making copies for distribution, and the DVD market would probably disappear within years.

The copy protection on DVDs has been cracked since October 1999. I don't see how it has harmed the adoption of the format. Do you?

Large-scale duplicators are not using the same methods as the home user. Stopping grue from making a copy of his DVD has no impact on whether a Chinese plant will be able to print 2m copies of Casino Royale.

[grue 1]

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Although I have financially benefited from some of Valenti's stances, I wasn't a huge fan of his. HOWEVER...
The thinking behind region coding is due to the fact that not all movies are released at the same time worldwide. Should a DVD version of a movie be released in one market prior the actual feature being screened in another market, it is easy to understand that DVDs would be floading the latter market, and box office would drop quite significantly.

I don't care what the reasoning is, it's fucking me over. My father is a filmmaker, and he has sworn to me that, if at all possible, all of his films will be region free when released on DVD.

If you don't want the movie on DVD in another region, just don't fucking release it there. There aren't going to be enough people importing it to have much of an effect on the box office sales.

edited to reflect a lack of clarity exploited by semantics later.

cavete terrae.

[grue 1]

EXACTLY.

Perfectly put.

cavete terrae.

[grue 1]

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The copy protection on DVDs has been cracked since October 1999. I don't see how it has harmed the adoption of the format. Do you?

Large-scale duplicators are not using the same methods as the home user. Stopping grue from making a copy of his DVD has no impact on whether a Chinese plant will be able to print 2m copies of Casino Royale.

Ding ding ding. Wanna cut back on piracy? Convince the governments in the places like China to actually give a shit about intellectual property and crack down on it. They copy EVERYTHING over there, from CDs to entire cars.

cavete terrae.

[ExAFO 0]

I'm gonna download a few mp3s and a movie or two to comemmorate.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[grue 1]

I'm still only halfway through the process of ripping all my DVDs to my computer for media centre style usage. I'm going to kick it up a notch for this weekend to celebrate. Then maybe I'll buy a few DRM-free songs on iTunes.

cavete terrae.

[DSE 5]

Sounds like his last quote fit you well.
it's not fallacious in any way.
You've never owned a store-bought DVD, you just think you do. The content belongs to someone else. You have a shiny silver disc with a license to view the contents. You don't have the right to share the content with others, that would be stealing.
Just because something is in the digital domain doesn't make it acceptable to copy it.
You can think it's greed; I'll bet you have locks on your doors. Why? Because you want to have keys in your pocket? or do you want to protect the contents of your home and car? Is it greedy to want to protect what's yours, what you've worked hard to earn or create?
Pirates cost the world well over a billion dollars each year.
I guess I'm a greedy motherfucker too, because I want to protect my work from assholes that copy it and send it around the world. My income is entirely based on my creative ability.
while you're coloring me with that brush, color guys like Joe Jennings, Mike McGowan, Norman Kent, Patrick Swayze, and just about every other cinematographer, musician, or artist with the same brush. We've worked hard to achieve the creative successes we've generated. It's exceptionally disheartening to find your work for sale on Ebay as pirated goods, or find your work in YouTube because some asswipe thought it might be fun to post it without your permission. Or to find some dickhead that copies your written works and posts them as though they were his own.
The creative process is similar to raising a child in that it has to be nurtured and pulled along until it's finished and can stand on it's own. The artist is paid by sales of the creative work. In the case of Hollywood films, when pirates steal, it barely hurts Speilbergs, Camerons, Soderbergs, Carpenters...it hurts grips, best boys, DP's, electricians, costumers, set designers, prop masters, mixers, boom ops, distributors, etc.
In the case of smaller works, every person who copied say..."Willing to Fly" that gave a copy to his buddy....stole $5.00 straight from Norman kent's pocket.
Yes, I know the bullshit argument "Well, they probably wouldn't have bought the product anyway, so no one was really hurt."
Fuck that, they're enjoying the benefits of the product regardless of whether they bought it or not.
Gee..."I can steal this from my friend, because I wouldn't have bought it anyway, and I don't _think_ he'd mind if I took it."
From Shakespeare to Amy Winehouse, artists have almost all worried about their rights to copy. With the digital age, many people believe they're entitled to copy whatever the hell they want.
Take away the capital incentive, and art suffers. Even the Queen of Anne knew that back in 1700.
Do copyright protections on media suck? Absolutely. They're invasive and a pain in the ass. I hate them, I hate what it costs to create/manage protections. But they're necessary to at least slow the stem of piracy/thieves.
So are locks on doors.
but most people have em....I wonder why?

Vilify Jack Valenti all you want. Recognize that your life would be pretty damn boring without what his organization helped bring to you. I surely didn't like him, but very much admired him. He did a lot of great things.
Personally, I think it's pretty twisted that someone would rejoice over the death of anyone like this.
BTW, he didn't have a lot of money. He wasn't fighting for his money. He fought for his organization, for something he believed in. He may have been a prick, but he was a prick that was passionate about that in which he believed.
If someone wants to be passionate about your right to steal, goodie for them.
I'd rather admire the passionate prick that worked to defend my hard works.

In closing, you obviously know nothing about the ratings process. Those that make film do, and we generally purposefully aim a film at a specific rating. Those that get caught up in the process and find they're unhappy? Usually it's a product of marketing hype, and rarely...that the producer or director simply is a moron that didn't do his/her homework

[Frenchy68 0]

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The copy protection on DVDs has been cracked since October 1999. I don't see how it has harmed the adoption of the format. Do you?

Large-scale duplicators are not using the same methods as the home user. Stopping grue from making a copy of his DVD has no impact on whether a Chinese plant will be able to print 2m copies of Casino Royale.

Ding ding ding. Wanna cut back on piracy? Convince the governments in the places like China to actually give a shit about intellectual property and crack down on it. They copy EVERYTHING over there, from CDs to entire cars.

Exactly!!!! So if you legalize copying DVDs, China WILL inundate the market. I pay $.80/DVD here. That means they could legally export them to the US, and they would sell at Wall Mart for around USD $1.50. Which means that within months, there wouldn't be any new DVDs coming out from film makers, being independent or studios.
In this case, having copyrights infringement laws does NOT prevent individuals form breaking the laws, it prevents them from legally inundating the market.
This said, I am only stating the reasons behind the action. I actually don't give much of a rat's ass what the situation ends up being...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[grue 1]

Oh my god. YOu didn't even read what I posted, did you?

I'm not sharing the fucking content. I'm using it FOR MYSELF.

Of course I protect my possessions. Why? Because if someone steals my computer, I don't have a computer anymore. Copying content is NOT stealing, it is depriving someone of income. STEALING is removing something from someone's possession, and they can no longer use it.

I am IN FAVOUR of protecting one's work. I am NOT in favour of forcing someone to buy multiple copies of something for their own use. If ran two computers with Windows, I'd own two licences for Windows because I'm using it twice at the same time. However, since I don't actually WATCH movies in DVD format, I copy them to my drive and put the DVD in storage. This is technically illegal, which is fucking bullshit.

Your quote: "BTW, he didn't have a lot of money. " He was making over a million fucking dollars a year. That's not a lot of money? In what fucking fantasy world?

As for the ratings process? I do know about hte ratings process because my father is a fucking filmmaker. It's a biased, monopolistic practice that is fucked up. I am IN FAVOUR of a rating process. I am AGAINST the one as it stands now.

It's obvious you want to protect your stuff, but think about it rationally: If you have OVERLY RESTRICTIVE SCHEMES, PEOPLE WHO WOULD OTHERWISE NOT BREAK LAWS ARE FORCED TO DO SO.

I cannot legally buy a DVD-quality movie for playback on my computer, PSP, or other devices. Thus, I have no choice but to break those laws if I want to use my devices to view the content.

If they had reasonable, legal alternatives I'd use them. THey don't, so I will say "Fuck you, assholes" and do things my way.

cavete terrae.

[DSE 5]

Quote

[
I don't care what the reasoning is, it's fucking me over. My father is a filmmaker, and he has sworn to me that all of his films will be region free when released on DVD.
.

'
Bullshit.
Maybe your father is a wanna-be filmmaker.
If he does a film that has distribution, he doesn't get to make that choice, because NO distributor would allow it.
Some folks just seem to feel that if someone creates something desireable, they no longer have the right to own/control it. That attitude is just plain stupid, IMO. "Copyright..." The right to copy. It's not your right, you didn't create the work. Always is retained by the artist. Until digital media came along, it was a fairly minor issue. Now that people can sit at home and rip off artists in the privacy of their own home while they jack off to the property of others without paying for the privilege, it's a huge issue.
BTW, it's not illegal to copy a movie to your hard drive. Never has been.
Making a replication or duplication of that movie is what is illegal. Uploading it to the internet is what is illegal.
Study up on the law, and you might actually understand it.
Decryption of copyprotections *is* illegal, but not illegal for certain uses, and storing the media to your home media center is one of those legal uses. Making a copy with the decrypted content is not.
Either way, you're not gonna understand the points of debate here, so there is no reason to participate in it. For some, it's mental mastication. For others, it's merely cerebral cabbage.
Enjoy.

[grue 1]

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The copy protection on DVDs has been cracked since October 1999. I don't see how it has harmed the adoption of the format. Do you?

Large-scale duplicators are not using the same methods as the home user. Stopping grue from making a copy of his DVD has no impact on whether a Chinese plant will be able to print 2m copies of Casino Royale.

Ding ding ding. Wanna cut back on piracy? Convince the governments in the places like China to actually give a shit about intellectual property and crack down on it. They copy EVERYTHING over there, from CDs to entire cars.

Exactly!!!! So if you legalize copying DVDs, China WILL inundate the market. I pay $.80/DVD here. That means they could legally export them to the US, and they would sell at Wall Mart for around USD $1.50. Which means that within months, there wouldn't be any new DVDs coming out from film makers, being independent or studios.
In this case, having copyrights infringement laws does NOT prevent individuals form breaking the laws, it prevents them from legally inundating the market.
This said, I am only stating the reasons behind the action. I actually don't give much of a rat's ass what the situation ends up being...

What in the living fuck are you talking about? I'm saying CRACK DOWN on the piracy in china and other countries that don't care if people pirate shit. When they use knee-jerk methods to control shit, it hurts people like me, not the big players in the piracy game.

cavete terrae.

[grue 1]

Quote

Bullshit.
Maybe your father is a wanna-be filmmaker.
If he does a film that has distribution, he doesn't get to make that choice, because NO distributor would allow it.
Some folks just seem to feel that if someone creates something desireable, they no longer have the right to own/control it. That attitude is just plain stupid, IMO. "Copyright..." The right to copy. It's not your right, you didn't create the work. Always is retained by the artist. Until digital media came along, it was a fairly minor issue. Now that people can sit at home and rip off artists in the privacy of their own home while they jack off to the property of others without paying for the privilege, it's a huge issue.
BTW, it's not illegal to copy a movie to your hard drive. Never has been.
Making a replication or duplication of that movie is what is illegal. Uploading it to the internet is what is illegal.
Study up on the law, and you might actually understand it.
Decryption of copyprotections *is* illegal, but not illegal for certain uses, and storing the media to your home media center is one of those legal uses. Making a copy with the decrypted content is not.
Either way, you're not gonna understand the points of debate here, so there is no reason to participate in it. For some, it's mental mastication. For others, it's merely cerebral cabbage.
Enjoy.

If you're going to whinge and say you're not going to participate, then feel free to get the fuck out of the thread. Maybe my father won't be able to follow through on that promise for the upcoming slate, maybe he will. But your attitude is every bit as fucked up and condescending as mine is.

As for copying to my drive? No, that's not illegal. Cracking the encryption on it is illegal. Since I can't play it without cracking the encryption, I'm breaking the law. It's ridiculous and further proof that the organizations don't care about the people who buy their stuff.

cavete terrae.

[bob.dino 1]

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BTW, it's not illegal to copy a movie to your hard drive. Never has been.

Incorrect.

In the USA, the DMCA prohibits the reverse engineering of any DRM scheme, which means that you can't legally copy that DVD to your hard drive. DeCSS is illegal in the USA.

The DMCA has trumped the Fair Use provisions of copyright law. Grue is correct in saying that to play the DVD content that he has purchased on a device other than a DVD player, he has to break the law.

[Frenchy68 0]

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What in the living fuck are you talking about? I'm saying CRACK DOWN on the piracy in china and other countries that don't care if people pirate shit. When they use knee-jerk methods to control shit, it hurts people like me, not the big players in the piracy game.

Let me make it a little clearer:

Option A: it is illegal to make copies of copyrighted material without the expressed consent of such rights. That means that Chinese companies are not allowed to make copies, nor is Grue, nor is Frenchy.

Option B: it is legal to make copies of copyrighted material, regardless of the rights owner's position on the issue. Then Grue, Frenchy, and Chinese companies have the right to do so. The outcome would probably be that Grue buys a Chinese version of a DVD (at 10% of the price of the US version), then makes his own personal never to be seen by anyone else copy.

Of course, there is option C, which would state that you can only buy products made in specific countries by specified persons or companies.

I am not advocating any particular one of these, as, as I stated earlier, I don't really give a rat's ass about the issue, at least not today.
I am only trying to clarify the logic behind the late Valenti's relentless fight against copies, etc...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."