ExAFO 0
An Interesting Day: President Bush's Movements and Actions on 9/11
By
zagijimzoo, in Speakers Corner
Sure is easy to criticize after the fact and the act has played out. What were those fighters supposed to do once they reached the first plane before it hit the tower? Shoot it down? Nobody in there right mind probably thought they would fly into the WTC.
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
Richards 0
QuoteIt has been investigated and beat to death! But the conspiracy theorists wont stop until somebody come up with that Bush planned it all and attacked his own country,and Bush's guys went into the WTC and planted explosives to bring them down. Is that what you want to hear? This is a dead horse that people just keep on beating.
But..but..but...Charlie Sheen and Rosie Odonnel said so. It must be true!
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
Richards 0
Quote20) 8:25 a.m.: Boston air traffic control notified several air traffic control centers that a hijack is in progress with American Airlines Flight 11. Boston air traffic control first lost communication with American Airlines Flight 11 more than 11 minutes ago. What took them so long to start to implement procedure? Why didn’t they also notify North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) at this time?
If they did follow procedure and notify NORAD at 8:25 and NORAD followed protocol and ordered the 102nd Fighter Wing of the Otis Air National Guard Base in Falmouth, Massachusetts to scramble at say 8:26 – two F-15’s would have been airborne by no later than 8:32 – these F-15’s would have had at least 14 minutes and 26 seconds to reach the WTC before American Airlines Flight 11 impacts the north side of the North Tower (1 World Trade Center) at 8:46:26. If these two F-15’s were flying at top speed, 14 minutes and 26 seconds is exactly twice the amount of time need to reach the WTC. These two F-15’s could have been at the WTC in just over 7 minutes, or as early as 8:39. Even a spokesperson for Otis said that their F-15’s could reach the WTC in 10 to 12 minutes, which would have them there at 8:42 to 8:44.
These two F-15’s could have easily intercepted American Airlines Flight 11. If only Boston air traffic control, which notified several air traffic control centers that a hijack is in progress with American Airlines Flight 11 at 8:25, had also notified NORAD. Why didn’t they? Or did they follow procedure, and notify NORAD, and NORAD is lying about it. Let me state that it is NORAD’s job to know every inch of the skies over North America, so they must have known that American Airlines Flight 11 was hijacked somewhere between 8:14 and 8:20.
52) 8:59 a.m.: American Airlines Flight 77 completes its 180 degree turn over southern Ohio / northeastern Kentucky and starts heading directly back to Washington D.C. and The Pentagon, 330 miles away.
Now the only airliner left in the sky with its IFF transponder signal off which has just made a 180 degree turn over southern Ohio / northeastern Kentucky and has been heading directly back to Washington D.C. and The Pentagon since 8:59 a.m. -- is American Airlines Flight 77. Why didn’t these two F-15’s that were 71 miles from NYC and the WTC, immediately redirect to intercept the only dangerous airliner in the sky, American Airlines Flight 77?
These two F-15’s had 34 minutes to reach Washington D.C. before American Airlines Flight 77 hits the Pentagon at 9:37 a.m. The mission of these two F-15’s from the 102nd Fighter Wing of the Otis Air National Guard Base is to protect the skies from Washington D.C. to the north. The F-15 has a top speed of 1875+ MPH, so they could have closed the 300 or so miles from their current position to Washington D.C. in just about 10 minutes. At top speed they could have been at the Pentagon 24 minutes before American Airlines Flight 77 hits it.
Even if they were flying at the same speed NORAD says that they covered in the last 71 miles till they reach the WTC (532.5 MPH or only 28.4% of top speed) they would have beat American Airlines Flight 77 to the Pentagon. Why didn’t these two F-15’s directly fly to intercept the only known airliner still in the sky that is hijacked, and heading directly for the nations capitol?
Still, much worse, why didn’t these two F-15’s upon reaching the WTC at 9:11 and now knowing that American Airlines Flight 77 has been heading dead on for Washington D.C. for 12 minutes, finally try to intercept? The WTC is about 250 miles from the Pentagon. They still have 26 minutes to intercept American Airlines Flight 77 before the Pentagon gets hit at 9:37. All they have to do is to fly only 576.9 MPH or 30.8% of their top speed to beat American Airlines Flight 77 to the Pentagon. What do we pay these guys to do?
Still, unbelievably worse, these two F-15’s could have waited in New York City till 9:26 before heading down to protect Washington D.C. and the Pentagon. By 9:26 American Airlines Flight 77 has now been heading directly back to Washington D.C. for 27 minutes. American Airlines Flight 77 is the only airliner in the sky with its transponder signal off, and off course. If these F-15’s were flying at top speed, they could be at the Pentagon in under 10 minutes. They can leave New York City at 9:26 and still beat American Airlines Flight 77 to the Pentagon by one minute. Why didn’t these two F-15’s leave at any time between 9:03 and 9:26 to intercept American Airlines Flight 77, the only airliner in the sky with its transponder signal off, and also off course? Why, NORAD?
60) 9:05 a.m.: Andrew Card walks up to Bush while he is listening to a Goat Story with 16 second graders in Sandra Kay Daniels’s class at Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida. Card whispers in his ear "A second plane has hit the World Trade Center. America is under attack." Bush (commander-and-chief?) keeps listening to this Goat Story with these children for at least 7 minutes, and perhaps as long as 18 minutes. Why didn't he excuse himself from these children right away, and immediately address this national emergency, is totally unexplainable.
There is no way this should have happened. What of course should have happened, was as soon as the secret service found out about United Airlines Flight 175 impacting the WTC (now knowing it was a "terrorist" act), they would have immediatly grabbed Bush and brought him to an undisclosed location. There is no way the secret service leaves Bush in a place (Emma E. Booker Elementary School) where everyone knows he is. Stand Down.
75) 9:24 a.m.: NORAD orders the 1st Fighter Wing from Langley Air Force Base in Hampton, Virginia to scramble two, possibly three F-16 fighters. This time NORAD does not sit on this vital information for six minutes before notifying Langley AFB. Langley is 130 miles south of Washington D.C. and the Pentagon. The F-16 has a top speed of 1500 MPH.
Why wasn’t Langley AFB scrambled at 8:20 or 8:40 or 8:46 or at the very least at 9:02:54? How could NORAD possibly have waited the 21 minutes from the time United Airlines Flight 175 hits the South Tower of the WTC at 9:02:54 before finally scrambling Langley at 9:24? Waiting these 21 extra minutes to finally scramble Langley is the real smoking gun that no one can get around
82) 9:30 a.m.: Two maybe three F-16 Fighting Falcons code-named Huntress take off from Langley AFB headed at first toward at NYC. A couple of minutes into their mission, according to General Haugen "A person came on the radio and identified themselves as being with the Secret Service" and said, "I want you to protect the White House at all costs." The F-16’s laid in a new course and vectored to Washington D.C.
Why were these fighters headed to NYC when American Airlines Flight 77 has been headed directly for Washington D.C. for the last 31 minutes, and with their communication and transponder turned off for 34 minutes? There are no airliners headed for NYC or anywhere else with their communication and transponders turned off. Also, at 9:25 air traffic controllers have already informed the US Secret Service in Washington D.C. that American Airlines Flight 77 is approaching them very fast. So why are these F-16’s first flying toward NYC?
92) 9:37 a.m
NORAD says the F-16’s from Langley were still 105 miles and 12 minutes away. This means their average flight speed was only 14.3% of their top speed in trying to intercept United Airlines Flight 175. If these F-16’s flew at top speed, they would have been there just after 9:37.
Langley is 130 miles from the Pentagon. F-16's have a top speed of 1500 MPH. Minus 105 miles left from 130 miles equals 25 miles covered in the 7 minutes from 9:30 take-off to 9:37. 60 minutes divided by 7 minutes equals 8.57, times this by the 25 miles covered, equals 214.3 MPH. divided by 1500 MPH equals 14.3% of their top speed. How could these two F-15’s possibly be going one seventh of their top speed in trying to intercept American Airlines Flight 77? Even the story about first flying to NYC does not account for this unbelievably slow speed because they got the message to redirect to Washington D.C. within a couple of minutes of take-off, and NYC and Washington D.C. are almost exactly the same direction (north) from Langley.
92) 9:37 a.m.: Flight 77 hits Pentagon
102) 9:49 a.m.: The F-16’s from Langley AFB finally arrive over Washington, D.C. to perform Combat Air Patrol over the city. It takes these F-16’s 19 minutes to reach Washington D.C. from Langley AFB which is about 130 miles to the south.
What was the precident set during prior hijackings where the planes were used as weapons? I am only vaguely familiar with what happened in the cases where the terrorists landed the planes and made demands. Until 911 how many planes were intercepted and shot down before they could be used as weapons?
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
willard 0
Your entire argument is stupid rubbish. But to show you why i'll just address a couple points....
Losing communication with an aircraft for a few minutes is not unusual. 11 minutes of lost communication does not mean a hijacking. It could mean any number of things including an electrical problem on the aircraft. If the aircraft had failed to reply and squawked 7500 then they would have known it was a hijacking. Anything else, under the circumstances, is guessing. Not something to scramble fighters over.
Because jet aircraft cannot fly at maximum speed for very long. Their max sustained cruise speed is much less than their max speed overall.
Do yourself a favor and fully research and check out the dribble the CT folk post on the 'net before taking it as the truth.
Quote8:25 a.m.: Boston air traffic control notified several air traffic control centers that a hijack is in progress with American Airlines Flight 11. Boston air traffic control first lost communication with American Airlines Flight 11 more than 11 minutes ago. What took them so long to start to implement procedure? Why didn’t they also notify North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) at this time?
Losing communication with an aircraft for a few minutes is not unusual. 11 minutes of lost communication does not mean a hijacking. It could mean any number of things including an electrical problem on the aircraft. If the aircraft had failed to reply and squawked 7500 then they would have known it was a hijacking. Anything else, under the circumstances, is guessing. Not something to scramble fighters over.
QuoteEven if they were flying at the same speed NORAD says that they covered in the last 71 miles till they reach the WTC (532.5 MPH or only 28.4% of top speed) they would have beat American Airlines Flight 77 to the Pentagon. Why didn’t these two F-15’s directly fly to intercept the only known airliner still in the sky that is hijacked, and heading directly for the nations capitol?
QuoteLangley is 130 miles from the Pentagon. F-16's have a top speed of 1500 MPH. Minus 105 miles left from 130 miles equals 25 miles covered in the 7 minutes from 9:30 take-off to 9:37. 60 minutes divided by 7 minutes equals 8.57, times this by the 25 miles covered, equals 214.3 MPH. divided by 1500 MPH equals 14.3% of their top speed. How could these two F-15’s possibly be going one seventh of their top speed in trying to intercept American Airlines Flight 77?
Because jet aircraft cannot fly at maximum speed for very long. Their max sustained cruise speed is much less than their max speed overall.
Do yourself a favor and fully research and check out the dribble the CT folk post on the 'net before taking it as the truth.
billvon 2,990
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>Boston air traffic control first lost communication with American Airlines
> Flight 11 more than 11 minutes ago. What took them so long to start to
> implement procedure?
Because radios fail all the time. US airspace would be shut down 75% of the time if every radio failure was considered evidence of a terrorist attack.
>Why didn’t these two F-15’s that were 71 miles from NYC and the
> WTC, immediately redirect to intercept the only dangerous airliner in the
> sky, American Airlines Flight 77?
Confusion. F-15 search radars do not report which aircraft (of the dozens in the air) are off course. Only ATC knows that - and ATC is set up to handle separation services, not military aircraft intercepts.
Imagine if you were a civilian air traffic controller in an ARTCC and were told "a military aircraft needs vectoring to that return on your tube. I don't know where the military aircraft is and we can't transmit on his frequency. We don't know the altitude of either aircraft. Get it done, OK?" Further imagine you had never tried to do anything like this before. What would you do?
>Let me state that it is NORAD’s job to know every inch of the skies over
>North America, so they must have known that American Airlines Flight 11
>was hijacked somewhere between 8:14 and 8:20.
Are you serious? You think NORAD is sitting there saying to themselves "hmm, Shark Air just dropped jumpers over Perris, and that Bonanza over Nogales must be lost?" They don't identify, mark and track every bit of air traffic in the US, although they do have access to most radar returns (which is NOT the same thing.) ATC _usually_ can handle that tremendous workload - but it takes thousands of controllers.
>Why didn't he excuse himself from these children right away, and
>immediately address this national emergency, is totally unexplainable.
Possibilities:
1) He knew that he had ordered an attack against the US, and decided that listening to a child read a story (while he was on video) was the best possible cover for his evil deceptions, or
2) He was trying to process what he had just been told and didn't quite know what to do, so he sat there.
>American Airlines Flight 77 is the only airliner in the sky with its transponder signal off . . .
But certainly not the only return on the scope with its transponder signal off. That alone would not be sufficient to alert ATC that a hijacking was taking place. A hijack transponder code would have been - but it was not received.
>F-16's have a top speed of 1500 MPH . . .
. . . . which they cannot reach carrying external stores, and do not reach when flying within the continental US.
> Flight 11 more than 11 minutes ago. What took them so long to start to
> implement procedure?
Because radios fail all the time. US airspace would be shut down 75% of the time if every radio failure was considered evidence of a terrorist attack.
>Why didn’t these two F-15’s that were 71 miles from NYC and the
> WTC, immediately redirect to intercept the only dangerous airliner in the
> sky, American Airlines Flight 77?
Confusion. F-15 search radars do not report which aircraft (of the dozens in the air) are off course. Only ATC knows that - and ATC is set up to handle separation services, not military aircraft intercepts.
Imagine if you were a civilian air traffic controller in an ARTCC and were told "a military aircraft needs vectoring to that return on your tube. I don't know where the military aircraft is and we can't transmit on his frequency. We don't know the altitude of either aircraft. Get it done, OK?" Further imagine you had never tried to do anything like this before. What would you do?
>Let me state that it is NORAD’s job to know every inch of the skies over
>North America, so they must have known that American Airlines Flight 11
>was hijacked somewhere between 8:14 and 8:20.
Are you serious? You think NORAD is sitting there saying to themselves "hmm, Shark Air just dropped jumpers over Perris, and that Bonanza over Nogales must be lost?" They don't identify, mark and track every bit of air traffic in the US, although they do have access to most radar returns (which is NOT the same thing.) ATC _usually_ can handle that tremendous workload - but it takes thousands of controllers.
>Why didn't he excuse himself from these children right away, and
>immediately address this national emergency, is totally unexplainable.
Possibilities:
1) He knew that he had ordered an attack against the US, and decided that listening to a child read a story (while he was on video) was the best possible cover for his evil deceptions, or
2) He was trying to process what he had just been told and didn't quite know what to do, so he sat there.
>American Airlines Flight 77 is the only airliner in the sky with its transponder signal off . . .
But certainly not the only return on the scope with its transponder signal off. That alone would not be sufficient to alert ATC that a hijacking was taking place. A hijack transponder code would have been - but it was not received.
>F-16's have a top speed of 1500 MPH . . .
. . . . which they cannot reach carrying external stores, and do not reach when flying within the continental US.
Possibilities:
1) He knew that he had ordered an attack against the US, and decided that listening to a child read a story (while he was on video) was the best possible cover for his evil deceptions, or
2) He was trying to process what he had just been told and didn't quite know what to do, so he sat there.
>American Airlines Flight 77 is the only airliner in the sky with its transponder signal off . . .
But certainly not the only return on the scope with its transponder signal off. That alone would not be sufficient to alert ATC that a hijacking was taking place. A hijack transponder code would have been - but it was not received.
>F-16's have a top speed of 1500 MPH . . .
. . . . which they cannot reach carrying external stores, and do not reach when flying within the continental US.
Quote
OH MY GOD!!! Bill you just solved the mystery of 9-11
Some of those questions the victims families wanted answered were completely stupid and asinine, they act like it's bush's job to simply sit in the NMCC and issue orders during an attack, despite the fact that the NMCC is a self sustaining asset, bush just makes general decisions that affect large scale events, after a lengthy process of getting his decisions approved. And looking for individuals responsible for not preventing the attack, that's just going on a wich hunt and looking for someone to hang, just because we are attacked doesn't mean one of our own needs to be punished, if we punished a commander everytime there was an attack on troops in Iraq we would be running very short of commanders
And as mentioned before you can't scramble fighters in the US and have them break the sound barrier over our cities to intercept a commercial flight, the amount of chaos that would create would be insane.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower
Yup you guys got some good points there! I really liked the "Shark Air just dropped jumpers over Perris" : ) Yeah i guess there really isn't anyway for NORAD to handle such a task! So basically we're pretty much just sitting ducks! Well that sucks! I really thought we had better protection but your right its just to big of a mess up there! I had to run the whole conspiracy theory bit just to understand the other point of view! The two tower demo theory i'm starting to give up on but there's still something that bugs me about WTC 7.
Well it looks like NORAD wasn't that slow after all with Flight 93. Appears to have been shot down! The Secondary Debris Field: http://www.flight93crash.com/flight93_secondary_debris_field.html#2nd
The official story of Flight 93 is that the heroic passengers brought down the plane to spare the country the tragedy of a fourth attack, a tremendous sacrifice to save others. However, while it seems true that the passengers were revolting against their hijackers, the evidence shows that Flight 93 was actually shot down. Debris from the plane was spread out over 8 miles, which suggests major trauma to the plane while it was still in the air. Some media coverage of this crash in the first couple days strongly suggested a shoot-down, most of this is archived at the website www.flight93crash.com
http://www.oilempire.us/flight93.html
http://www.flight93crash.com/
The official story of Flight 93 is that the heroic passengers brought down the plane to spare the country the tragedy of a fourth attack, a tremendous sacrifice to save others. However, while it seems true that the passengers were revolting against their hijackers, the evidence shows that Flight 93 was actually shot down. Debris from the plane was spread out over 8 miles, which suggests major trauma to the plane while it was still in the air. Some media coverage of this crash in the first couple days strongly suggested a shoot-down, most of this is archived at the website www.flight93crash.com
http://www.oilempire.us/flight93.html
http://www.flight93crash.com/
mnealtx 0
Try again... do a websearch for "flight recorder transcript flight 93" - certainly doesn't sound like a shoot-down, now does it?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
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