2 Vegan + baby = starved baby + 2 life in prison

[philh 0]

"Raw, huh? Haven't been able to go there yet. I have alot of admiration for that diet. Especially since I've seen the health benefits. I'd bet your body just glows!"

Im a veggie and Ive spent some time looking into the health benefits of a veggie diet, there seems to be mixed evidence out there for it, some studies say yes others say no. Personally, im veggie for ethical reaons. Whats interesitng is a new article in Physics world claiming going veggie can help reduce carbom emmisons, check it out here:
http://www.physorg.com/news4998.html


On the issue of raw food when you say yove seen the benefits , I presume you mean youve seen the studies on the benefits? After all, one cant assume benefits in that way, with a small personal data set, it takes large studies. Perhaps you could direct us to them?

[VincentVL. 0]

A local couple was driving in their car and got hit by a drunk/drugged driver. Their baby daughter died in the crash. They were prosecuted because they didn't attach the baby seat in the correct way (even though it didn't really matter). Luckily the judge was sane and ruled in favor of them.

I'm not saying these screwballs shouldn't be punished, but a life sentence doesn't serve any purpose. Life and death sentence should be reserved for people with evil intentions. I don't think such is the case here. They should probably get a couple years combined with intensive psychiatric counselling.

But I guess that's America for you, someone has to pay and punishment should automatically fit the crime instead of (actually) serving society (do correct me if I'm wrong. I often am.)

[Royd 0]

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I'm not saying these screwballs shouldn't be punished, but a life sentence doesn't serve any purpose. Life and death sentence should be reserved for people with evil intentions. I don't think such is the case here. They should probably get a couple years combined with intensive psychiatric counselling.

They could have had it killed ten seconds before it took its first breath, dusted off their hands, and walked out the door with no social consequences.

[freeflybella 0]

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"Raw, huh? Haven't been able to go there yet. I have alot of admiration for that diet. Especially since I've seen the health benefits. I'd bet your body just glows!"

Im a veggie and Ive spent some time looking into the health benefits of a veggie diet, there seems to be mixed evidence out there for it, some studies say yes others say no. Personally, im veggie for ethical reaons. Whats interesitng is a new article in Physics world claiming going veggie can help reduce carbom emmisons, check it out here:
http://www.physorg.com/news4998.html


On the issue of raw food when you say yove seen the benefits , I presume you mean youve seen the studies on the benefits? After all, one cant assume benefits in that way, with a small personal data set, it takes large studies. Perhaps you could direct us to them?

I'm vegan for ethical reasons as well. And don't read physics pubs. Although I'll check out that link from home. Have you read the China Study? or Diet for a New America (originally published in the late 70s - has much info on how animal-based diets affect the environment)?

Nope - haven't read "studies of benefits" of raw food. A small personal data set is all I have for now. But I don't know of a single person who has gone raw (people who do this generally are highly aware of nutrition and what it takes to remain healthy) and felt worse for it.

Personally, I don't "prepare food" - much. I live very close to a vegan hot food bar and bakery and usually buy dinner there. Going raw would mean actual meal planning and prep. EEK!

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[tigra 0]

They starved their baby to death- a slow painful process that took weeks. Weeks while the baby wasted away and eventually must have become too weak to cry. At first the cries were probably almost constant. Weeks of doing nothing to help their infant, not seeking medical attention or advice as their baby wasted away and died. I don't see anything accidental about that, and I DO think that level of cruelty and neglect indicates "evil intentions".

[philh 0]

I havent read Diet for a New America , I checked it out and it didnt seem like an objective assesment fo the evidence. Even though it appeared to be arguing a point I agree with, I would like someone more objective looking over this kind of issue. I dont need someone to tell me about the ethics of the issue, but the science of health benefits needs to be investigated objectivley and I prefer sources that have less of rant style.

"Nope - haven't read "studies of benefits" of raw food. A small personal data set is all I have for now. But I don't know of a single person who has gone raw (people who do this generally are highly aware of nutrition and what it takes to remain healthy) and felt worse for it. "

I think its a very dangerous thing to do to take one's limited personal experience as being informative. there are number of logical fallcies you can fall into very easily, such as the post hoc fallacy, the pragmatic fallacy and the regressive fallacy etc i would definitley reccomend checking them out here:

http://skepdic.com/tilogic.html

[freeflybella 0]

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I havent read Diet for a New America , I checked it out and it didnt seem like an objective assesment fo the evidence. Even though it appeared to be arguing a point I agree with, I would like someone more objective looking over this kind of issue. I dont need someone to tell me about the ethics of the issue, but the science of health benefits needs to be investigated objectivley and I prefer sources that have less of rant style. [\reply]

Interesting. Personally, I'm not looking for proof that a compassionate lifestyle works best for me or that someone who follows a raw diet feels healthier. Try it for yourself - find what works for you.

Also, to say that John Robbins style is "ranting" is something I've never heard before. Maybe you should go ahead and read it?

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

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[philh 0]

I agree compassion does not need to be judged by the the same rules of evidence because what is compassionate is a value judgement, not a statement of fact. However whether a diet is healthier than anothher diet cannot be treated in the same way and we should seek verifable evidencce before making claims of that kind.

The fact that a person feels healtheir after a diet does not mean they are healthier, this is a very obvious fallacy called the post hoc fallacy. Just because A proceeds B does not mean that A caused B. Similarly if one seems healthier after switching to raw food we are not able to draw the conlusion that raw food was the cause without controlling for other varibales and using a large data base. personal experience cannot do this and so should not be used as a method of assesing the validity of dietary claims.

As for John Robbins I did not mean to suggest thhat the style is a rant, more that, thats what it seemed by a brief look at it. I dont want to jump to conlusions as I havent read it. I just prefer to get my data from more scholarly research. Incidentally as I have pointed out, there is scholarly research showing the efficacy of a vegggie diet, one example is here:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=1022500&pageindex=1

[freeflybella 0]

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I just prefer to get my data from more scholarly research.

cheers.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[DFWAJG 4]

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And, FYI, Woody Harrelson and Susan Sarandon are raw foodists.

Wow, I'm on board.

smartass!