2 Vegan + baby = starved baby + 2 life in prison

[freeflybella 0]

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As for the vegan lifestyle, I've observed it long enough

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I saw an episode of Wife Swap

...uh...'nuff said.

Were you eating corn dogs and cheetos, too?

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[tigra 0]

This isn't just directed at you, but why excuse their behavior with assumptions that they are stupid, mentally ill or trying to adhere to an ideology? Why put the vegan diet or lifestyle on trial when this is a clear case of child neglect and abuse? They literally starved their own infant to death! Probably one of the most painful and horrible ways to kill an infant. This wasn't a case of bad parenting or ignorance- it was cruelty and murder.

There is nothing wrong with feeding an infant soy based formula exclusively. Parents do it all the time. Not all mothers can breastfeed, and many infants can't tolerate dairy based formulas.

[freeflybella 0]

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This isn't just directed at you, but why excuse their behavior with assumptions that they are stupid, mentally ill or trying to adhere to an ideology? Why put the vegan diet or lifestyle on trial when this is a clear case of child neglect and abuse? They literally starved their own infant to death! Probably one of the most painful and horrible ways to kill an infant. This wasn't a case of bad parenting or ignorance- it was cruelty and murder.

There is nothing wrong with feeding an infant soy based formula exclusively. Parents do it all the time. Not all mothers can breastfeed, and many infants can't tolerate dairy based formulas.

From what I could tell, they weren't feeding the infant soy formula. They were feeding him soy milk. In which case, they could have been feeding him 25 bottles of soy milk per day and he still could've "starved."

For whatever reason - soy milk and apple juice were the preferred choice for this couple. To me, that goes beyond being "vegan" - that speaks to ignorance, negligence, mental illness...etc. It may not have been murder. They may have been feeding that baby all day long.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[tigra 0]

They didn't take the baby to the doctor and he starved to death. How on earth could they not see their infant was starving and suffering? How could they not hear his cries? That's child abuse and neglect, and in my book - murder -perpetrated by both parents. Apparently, a jury agreed. Now they're whining about being in prison and how they're misunderstood. Slow starvation would be a more appropriate sentence for them, but that woud be cruel.

[freeflybella 0]

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They didn't take the baby to the doctor and he starved to death. How on earth could they not see their infant was starving and suffering? How could they not hear his cries? That's child abuse and neglect, and in my book - murder -perpetrated by both parents. Apparently, a jury agreed. Now they're whining about being in prison and how they're misunderstood. Slow starvation would be a more appropriate sentence for them, but that woud be cruel.

Just as you were posting this, I was trying to edit my post. I read more on the case and it seems they were not feeding the baby.

In no way am I trying to justify their behaviour. I was merely responding to the question about mental illness.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[pfloyd 0]

No 1 ever said Vegans were smart people.

My drinking team has a skydiving problem

[DZJ 0]

Genuine legal question - doesn't murder require malicious intent or forethought? Or am I completely wrong?

[Royd 0]

As for the vegan lifestyle, I've observed it long enough

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I saw an episode of Wife Swap

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...uh...'nuff said.

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Were you eating corn dogs and cheetos, too?

Not hardly. If the label has words that I can't pronounce, I don't eat it.

[Nightingale 0]

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Genuine legal question - doesn't murder require malicious intent or forethought? Or am I completely wrong?

"wanton disregard" is usually in there somewhere too.

[skydyvr 0]

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I saw an episode of Wife Swap

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...uh...'nuff said.

. . =(_8^(1)

[crwtom 0]

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Genuine legal question - doesn't murder require malicious intent or forethought? Or am I completely wrong?

Prosecution did argue intent - the jury went along with it.

T

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Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[DFWAJG 4]

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This isn't just directed at you, but why excuse their behavior with assumptions that they are stupid, mentally ill or trying to adhere to an ideology? Why put the vegan diet or lifestyle on trial when this is a clear case of child neglect and abuse? They literally starved their own infant to death! Probably one of the most painful and horrible ways to kill an infant. This wasn't a case of bad parenting or ignorance- it was cruelty and murder.


What I'm saying is, that these people could have been very impaired mentally. I'm not giving them an excuse. I just want to learn more about the case. Something just doesn't seem right to me.

There is nothing wrong with feeding an infant soy based formula exclusively. Parents do it all the time. Not all mothers can breastfeed, and many infants can't tolerate dairy based formulas.

[DFWAJG 4]

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/13245543/detail.html

this site has a portion of the trial and also shows the couples kitchen. If this is indeed their kitchen, there was only the soy milk and the apple juice in the entire kitchen. the cabinets were completely empty of food.

As I listen to the father speak, I hear psychotic undertones in his voice. If they were in California, they could be rendered "Gravely Disabled" as it appears that they were unable to provide adequate food even for themselves. This is a very sad case for all involved.

[Royd 0]

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As I listen to the father speak, I hear psychotic undertones in his voice. If they were in California, they could be rendered "Gravely Disabled" as it appears that they were unable to provide adequate food even for themselves. This is a very sad case for all involved.

They probably saw the commercial where the cows decide to give their calf soy milk because it's healthier than real milk, and figured that if it's good enough for cows, it's good enough for us.

[freeflybella 0]

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http://www.wsbtv.com/news/13245543/detail.html

this site has a portion of the trial and also shows the couples kitchen. If this is indeed their kitchen, there was only the soy milk and the apple juice in the entire kitchen. the cabinets were completely empty of food.

As I listen to the father speak, I hear psychotic undertones in his voice. If they were in California, they could be rendered "Gravely Disabled" as it appears that they were unable to provide adequate food even for themselves. This is a very sad case for all involved.

I guess this is why it took the jury 7 hours to deliberate. Doesn't sound open and shut to me and I've only read a few news accounts.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[Lindsey 0]

For whatever reason - soy milk and apple juice were the preferred choice for this couple. To me, that goes beyond being "vegan" - that speaks to ignorance, negligence, mental illness...etc. It may not have been murder. They may have been feeding that baby all day long.

Yep. But unless they were GROSSLY impaired themselves, they should have at the very least taken their child to a doctor or anyone for some guidance. If you're feeding your child all day long and he's wasting away, ya' really, really, really should go the next step and come up with a better plan. "We fed him all day long and he still died" may be a good enough excuse for your fish dying, but it doesn't even enter the realm of what's acceptable for why your child died.

linz

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A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[freeflybella 0]

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For whatever reason - soy milk and apple juice were the preferred choice for this couple. To me, that goes beyond being "vegan" - that speaks to ignorance, negligence, mental illness...etc. It may not have been murder. They may have been feeding that baby all day long.

Yep. But unless they were GROSSLY impaired themselves, they should have at the very least taken their child to a doctor or anyone for some guidance. If you're feeding your child all day long and he's wasting away, ya' really, really, really should go the next step and come up with a better plan. "We fed him all day long and he still died" may be a good enough excuse for your fish dying, but it doesn't even enter the realm of what's acceptable for why your child died.

linz

[B]ABSOLUTELY[/B] agree.

I was never arguing that these two were normal, well-adjusted people living an uninformed vegan lifestyle.

I was arguing just the opposite - that to say they were vegans, and to condemn the vegan lifestyle based on these two is ridiculous and that there was obviously something amiss - homicidal, negligent, mentally ill, whatever.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[DFWAJG 4]

I guess this is why it took the jury 7 hours to deliberate. Doesn't sound open and shut to me and I've only read a few news accounts.

[craddock 0]

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All of my raw vegan friends

???? What is there some kind of club you belong to that you have all these Raw Vegan friends? Seriously? In addition to my friends and family, I entertain customers at dinner several times a week for years, and I have not even met many Raw Vegans, much less have a bunch as friends.

Just a bit confused here....Perhaps I have aquired CWD?

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[Royd 0]

All of my raw vegan friends

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???? What is there some kind of club you belong to that you have all these Raw Vegan friends? Seriously? In addition to my friends and family, I entertain customers at dinner several times a week for years, and I have not even met many Raw Vegans, much less have a bunch as friends.

A telltale sign is the raw carrots stuck in their teeth.

[freeflybella 0]

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I guess this is why it took the jury 7 hours to deliberate. Doesn't sound open and shut to me and I've only read a few news accounts.

I wasn't saying it was an open & shut case. Something other than "just two cruddy people neglected their kid" doesn't sit right with me about this case. There seems to be something missing. Almost all of the top 30 articles I found on the web said the same exact thing as the original article posted here. So there isn't much for us to go by to make a decision about what has really gone on here. Public defenders often neglect getting a psych workup for their clients even when the client is obviously impaired. I have countless patients that belong in a forensic hospital, not a prison. I've read their C-files, which often contain court transcripts. Many of my patients have been given a tremendous disservice by their attorneys. This may or may not be the case here.

All I'm saying is, there is more to this picture. Most capable adults would know not to solely feed an infant soymilk and applejuice. I think this couple is grossly mentally impaired in some way, regardless of whether or not they are vegans.

Just to be clear - we agree. It kind of sounds like you're arguing a point that you think is different from mine.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[DFWAJG 4]

yes, we have raw potlucks. very popular in san luis obispo. And, FYI, Woody Harrelson and Susan Sarandon are raw foodists.

[DFWAJG 4]

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I guess this is why it took the jury 7 hours to deliberate. Doesn't sound open and shut to me and I've only read a few news accounts.

I wasn't saying it was an open & shut case. Something other than "just two cruddy people neglected their kid" doesn't sit right with me about this case. There seems to be something missing. Almost all of the top 30 articles I found on the web said the same exact thing as the original article posted here. So there isn't much for us to go by to make a decision about what has really gone on here. Public defenders often neglect getting a psych workup for their clients even when the client is obviously impaired. I have countless patients that belong in a forensic hospital, not a prison. I've read their C-files, which often contain court transcripts. Many of my patients have been given a tremendous disservice by their attorneys. This may or may not be the case here.

All I'm saying is, there is more to this picture. Most capable adults would know not to solely feed an infant soymilk and applejuice. I think this couple is grossly mentally impaired in some way, regardless of whether or not they are vegans.

Just to be clear - we agree. It kind of sounds like you're arguing a point that you think is different from mine.

yes, I misunderstood. But it is always good to clarify.

[Royd 0]

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And, FYI, Woody Harrelson and Susan Sarandon are raw foodists.

Wow, I'm on board.

[freeflybella 0]

You're right. There are alot of misconceptions out there. And although I don't try to force my opinion or beliefs on others - I really do try to explain and educate when the time is right.

Raw, huh? Haven't been able to go there yet. I have alot of admiration for that diet. Especially since I've seen the health benefits. I'd bet your body just glows!
BTW, here's a healthy exclusively breastfed vegan 6 week old - and a very healthy vegan 2 year old!

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi