BlackWater: Privatized War in Iraq??

[watchdog2 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8mfGx_wuvQ&mode=related&search=


Interesting...

[MDMA 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8mfGx_wuvQ&mode=related&search=

[Scoop 0]

I personally don't feel there should be any place for private military type organisations. The forces in Iraq etc should be regular troops ensuring security, even that of private industry. There is some pretty shocking videos of Blackwater on YouTube. Them harrassing people from their helicopter being one. Theres also one of an apparantly over eager sniper shooting at anything that moves. This sort of behaviour, although probably not typical, does nothing for relations over there. An American is an American to them I would imagine. Regardless of if they are wearing military clothing or 5.11s finest merchandise.

[funjumper101 15]

The USPA was fawning over Blackwater's skydiving employees in past Parachutists.Made me ill.

I know what Blackwater is and what they do. Professional mercenaries with the stamp of US Government approval. Blackwater can do what the US Military can't. There are no laws that apply to them and their activities in Iraq. Shrub signed an executive order. NONE of the contractors are subject to any law, Iraqi or US.

The righties are very proud of the complete disregard of the rule of law by ShrubCo and their lackeys.

[mnealtx 0]

What EO would that be, that would excuse contractors from legal liability? I'd like to see that.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[freethefly 6]

Iraq killing tracked to contractor could test laws
By BILL SIZEMORE, The Virginian-Pilot
© January 11, 2007

As pressure grows in Congress to hold private military companies such as Blackwater USA more accountable for their conduct, reports have surfaced of a Dec. 24 shooting in Baghdad that could serve as a textbook case.

According to the State Department, a civilian U.S. contractor shot and killed an Iraqi security officer. Lou Fintor, a spokesman at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, would not say which company the shooter worked for. Two independent sources have told The Virginian-Pilot that he worked for Blackwater, based in Moyock, N.C.

When asked about the reports, Anne Tyrrell, a Blackwater spokeswoman, said Wednesday: "No comment."

Blackwater provides security for U.S. diplomatic staff in Iraq under a multimillion-dollar State Department contract.

Details of the shooting are sketchy. Fintor said there are conflicting reports. "We continue looking into the incident in an effort to try to determine the facts," he said.

He declined to provide any further details about the American contractor, citing the U.S. Privacy Act. However, a former Blackwater contractor and an executive of another private military company, citing sources inside Iraq, independently said that the shooter was a Blackwater contractor.

So far, there is no word of any criminal charges being brought in the case.

Nearly four years after the U.S. invasion, tens of thousands of civilian contractors are working in Iraq. So far, none has been charged with any criminal wrongdoing. One reason: Contractors operate in a legal gray area, in which it's uncertain whether they're subject to civilian law, military law or neither.

The latest effort to clear that up came Wednesday when U.S. Rep. David Price, D-N.C., introduced legislation he says will bring about transparency, accountability and coordination for private contractors operating in a war zone.

"The lack of a legal framework for battlefield contracting has allowed certain rogue contractor employees to perpetrate heinous criminal acts without the threat of prosecution," Price said.

Among other things, Price's legislation would extend the reach of the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act to allow prosecution in civilian courts of any contractor involved in a military operation. The law has been on the books since 2000 but has not been applied against contractors in Iraq.

Price's attempt to subject contractors to civilian courts comes on the heels of legislation enacted last fall that seeks to put them under military law.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., an Air Force Reserve lawyer, inserted language in a military spending bill that extends the Uniform Code of Military Justice to cover contractors in a "contingency operation" such as Iraq - not just in a declared war.

Whichever approach prevails, the congressional scrutiny is long overdue, in the view of Peter W. Singer, a scholar at the Brookings Institution who has written a book about the booming private military industry.

It was Singer who first called public attention to Graham's move. He wrote last week in Defensetech, an online military discussion group, that thanks to Graham's phrasing in the Pentagon budget bill, "contractors' 'get out of jail free' cards may have been torn to shreds."

"It's probably the most important legal change for the private military industry in its history," Singer said in an interview. "For the first time, this vacuum in the law is being plugged. It shows that Congress has woken up from its slumber on this issue."

Not everyone agrees with Singer's interpretation.

Doug Brooks, president of the International Peace Operations Association, a trade group representing Blackwater and other military contractors, said that in his view, military law would not apply to Blackwater contractors working for the State Department.

"It might be doable for Defense Department contractors, but it's not a panacea," Brooks said. "It's a square peg in a round hole."

Price's bill seeks to cast a wider net, applying to contractors "employed under a contract (or subcontract at any tier) awarded by any department or agency of the United States Government, where the work under such contract is carried out in a region outside the United States in which the Armed Forces are conducting a contingency operation."

A spokesman for Price said that he had not heard of the Dec. 24 slaying but that it is the kind of case the legislation is intended to address.

Singer, the Brookings scholar, said the incident provides further fuel for a vigorous discussion about the unprecedented privatization of warfighting - a discussion that's sure to happen in the new Democrat-controlled Congress.

According to a recent Pentagon estimate, more than 100,000 private contractors are carrying out military roles in Iraq - a figure almost as large as the uniformed military force there.

"This is going to be part of a much, much bigger debate: Have we outsourced too much?" Singer said. " It was never debated. The consequences of it were never weighed. Now we're trying to clean up all the mess that's been created."


Staff writer Joanne Kimberlin contributed to this report.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[mnealtx 0]

Appreciate the link to the story.

While I can't speak for Blackwater and their contract, I can tell you that every contract I've worked over the last 20 years, we've been accountable not only to the local authorities but also answerable to the military in regards to the UCMJ...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[BIGUN 1,312]

Quote

There are no laws that apply to them and their activities in Iraq. Shrub signed an executive order. NONE of the contractors are subject to any law, Iraqi or US.

You are mistaken.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[GQ_jumper 4]

I know what Blackwater is and what they do. Professional mercenaries with the stamp of US Government approval. Blackwater can do what the US Military can't. There are no laws that apply to them and their activities in Iraq. Shrub signed an executive order. NONE of the contractors are subject to any law, Iraqi or US.

Quote

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? I've dealt with people from just about every major contracting company over here, and yes Blackwater does tend to act like a bunch of reckless cowboys(that's what yyou get for turning to former SEAL's as your primary recruiting pool) they are far from being mercenaries. At no point in Iraq or Afghanistan hasa the Us government ever used any contracting company in any type of offensive operation. This whole idea everyone keeps rambling on about where these guys do the missions that the US doesn't want to take responsibility for is BS. They provide security, escorts, supervise construction projects, assist in local rebuilding efforts, run our chow halls, and provide maintanence services on teh FOBs, to name a few of their duties. Nowhere is there a contractor being paid by the US to snatch people out of their beds in the middle of the night or assasinate people, if they are doing shit like that it is of their own accord and they will answer for their actions, I watch contractors get thrown out of country daily for pulling that kind of crap.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

• Quote

[CDRINF 1]

Ideally all functions in theater would be performed by soldiers, but we are living with the reality of the "peace-dividend" everyone wanted in the 90's. We went from a 785,000 man Army to 485,000 (and were headed toward more cuts if 9-11 had not happened) while increasing the number of deployments and world wide commitments. The solution to losing the soldiers needed to perform a number of critical functions was to hire contractors. In addition to Blackwater, there is a huge array of logistical duties from food service, to laundry, to truck transport performed by Kellog Brown and Root. If you want to get rid of the contractors in theater, you have to face the reality of either radically reducing our world wide commitments, or having a much larger Army. This is actually not without precedent. When the Army rapidly downsized after the Civil War it had to hire contractors to run wagon trains to garrisons on the frontier because it had to keep what few troops it did have for fighting Indians. Private companies like Wells Fargo armed their employees to protect frontier deliveries because the Army did not have the troops available to provide security.

CDR

[GQ_jumper 4]

This is actually not without precedent. When the Army rapidly downsized after the Civil War it had to hire contractors to run wagon trains to garrisons on the frontier because it had to keep what few troops it did have for fighting Indians. Private companies like Wells Fargo armed their employees to protect frontier deliveries because the Army did not have the troops available to provide security.

Quote

Nice reference

It seems that most of the people pointing fingers at contractors for being "mercenaries" are the ones who don't realize that probably about 90%(just a guess) of the contractors in theatre do nothing more than what you said, logistics. The ones that make themselves look like mercenaries are doing it sua sponte and not under order, and as I have said before they are dealt with accordingly.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[shropshire 0]

I agree that our national armed forces need professional logistics back up, I'm cool with that.

But, would have the same concerns as you with the 'cowboy' pseudo soldiers... [Opens can of worms]....seems like they are as much as illegal combatants as some on the other side

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[GQ_jumper 4]

seems like they are as much as illegal combatants as some on the other side

Quote

I'm no JAG officer so don't quote me on this but, I believe they are NON-combatants and any action by them in anything other than a force protection measure(defensive) would be illegal. And if for some reason they did cross paths with us and got rolled up I have no doubt that would go from non, to illegal.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

• Quote

[shropshire 0]

Good response to my cheeky post. Thanks.

I'd like to think that most of them are doing a good job, the one that they signed up for.. but as with all walks of life, there will be some rotten apples.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[GQ_jumper 4]

You should see the kind of name Blackwater has made for themselves out here. They have been completely kicked out of the AL Anbar province, they are losing contracts in quick fashion and it's all because of the way they choose to operate.

Guess that's what ya get for using former Squeals as your primary recruiting pool

You'd think Blackwater would know better after having Charlie Sheen and Demi Moore as the Hollywood ambassadors to the SEALs.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

You should see the kind of name Blackwater has made for themselves out here. They have been completely kicked out of the AL Anbar province, they are losing contracts in quick fashion and it's all because of the way they choose to operate.

Guess that's what ya get for using former Squeals as your primary recruiting pool

You'd think Blackwater would know better after having Charlie Sheen and Demi Moore as the Hollywood ambassadors to the SEALs.

And 500 guys all from "SEEL Team 6"? (yes, seen a tattoo that said exactly that.. )

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[shropshire 0]

Did the company just become too complacent? and have no competition?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Guest]

Quote

There are no laws that apply to them and their activities in Iraq. [pejorative slang term for name of prez deleted from reply] signed an executive order. NONE of the contractors are subject to any law, Iraqi or US.

You are grossly misinformed. ALL civilian contract personnel overseas attached to or associated with the US military are subject to the US Extraterritorial Justice Act, and can be prosecuted for any crimes committed.

Can you please cite the Executive Order the POTUS allegedly signed that makes civilian contractors immune from prosecution? Thanks!

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[BIGUN 1,312]

Quote

US Extraterritorial Justice Act

I'm sorry, you jumped in front of the other contestant before ringing in. So, even though you had the right answer, I'm afraid your prize package will be reduced to a trip to Yugoslavia.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[GQ_jumper 4]

No, they had plenty of competition, but they have a bunch of employees who are either, A)FAG's(former action guys), who still want to go get in a fight, or B)guys that try and act tough and are really scared shitless so they jump and pull the trigger when it's unnecessary because Mohamed wasn't paying attention(the same way all Arabs don't) while he was driving and wandered too close to the Blackwater convoy.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[shropshire 0]

Must be a pain in the arse for you and your mates

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Guest]

Quote

Quote

US Extraterritorial Justice Act

I'm sorry, you jumped in front of the other contestant before ringing in. So, even though you had the right answer, I'm afraid your prize package will be reduced to a trip to Yugoslavia.

Can I have the Broyhill furniture instead?

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."