Illegal solution

[jgoose71 0]

I got 3 big problems with illegals..

1) I don't know who is in the country.
2) They don't speak english
3) They get a free ride on my dollar

Here is my solution. Everyone feel free to shoot all of the holes in it you want. I can guarantee that it's a hell of a lot better than the piece o' shit bill running through congress right now.

At the border, allow mexicans to come in if they can speak english. Give them a special ID card that is supposed to be "unforgeable" like they were talking about in congress a while ago. On this card is a special "social-security number" so to speak used to identify them for tax purposes. (Only US citezens may collect social security, un-employment, etc) Only families that are contributing to our country may get health care or send thier kids to our schools.

These ID cards will be issued from the border. If you are already in the US, go back and cross the border right and get one. If you live in Seattle or Main, it looks like you got a long trip.

While Illeagals still have basic human rights, they still don't have the rights of US citezens. They don't vote and can be paid less than minumum wage. There are still certain things that require a green card. the Agriculture business and sweat shops can still thrive.

After these ID cards have been in place for a month, unleash the hounds. Any illeagals still in the country get exported.

These ID cards can be given to any person crossing the border that can speak a little english and can verify they are not criminals.

It's not perfect but I think it's a start. Freedom isn't free and I am tired of paying while someone else gets a free ride. I say tax them back to mexico!!!!

And before anyone starts calling me a hate monger, this isn't about being predjudice. It's about paying your dues.

Just one mans opinion. Like I said, shoot holes in the idea or add to it. Maybe we can send something to our goverment that might work since they can't do it them selves.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[narcimund 0]

Quote

2) They don't speak english

Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[jgoose71 0]

Basically, english is the language of money. It also allows us to communicate freely with one another. If you know of any board rooms in the fortune 500 companies that hold meetings in spanish, I will take it back. You don't have to speak english in the US to be successful, but it helps.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[nathaniel 0]

Quote

If you live in Seattle or Maine, it looks like you got a long trip.

just one question...when do we invade Canada?

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[ryoder 1,590]

Quote

Quote

If you live in Seattle or Maine, it looks like you got a long trip.

just one question...when do we invade Canada?

The way things have been going in this country, Canada is probably considering whether to invade the US to restore democracy.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[n23x 0]

Quote

If you live in Seattle or Main...

Maybe we should have rules where your US citizenship is revoked if you can't, oh, say, spell words a 4th grader could?

Now to poke some holes:
1.) "unleashing the dogs" isn't possible. Not enough resources.
2.) if you had the choice between using your "no US rights ID" and using your "no US rights ID" to come into the US and then using fake ID, which would you choose?

Go to your local elementary and high school and count up the number of "illegals" you have in that school. Then come back here and tell us what percentage it is. I'll even go a step further, and let you say that ALL the mexicans you can see are probably illegals. (To give you the benefit of the doubt). Then we'll take that percentage, apply it to your yearly income tax and then you can tell how much, in dollars you think you're getting ripped off (just on the local education front). To top it off, do you think you'd be able to buy your family a fastfood meal with that money?

Or is this not a "petty thing" and a thing of principle?

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

Here is my solution. Everyone feel free to shoot all of the holes in it you want.

It's already full of holes :)

Quote

At the border, allow mexicans to come in if they can speak english.

What level of English speaking is required, who is going to test it and how? Is "my name is Sanches Gonzales" enough, or they have to bring TOEFL certificate?

Quote

Give them a special ID card that is supposed to be "unforgeable" like they were talking about in congress a while ago.

If the card is "unforgeable", you cannot give it to them right at border. It should be made on a special facility with limited access. Even driver licenses (which are not unforgeable) are not issued in DMV.

You also missed other important checks, like identity check, and background check. The problem with those checks is that they take a while - up to 2 weeks minimum. If we combine this with the card issue, it means that you cannot avoid visa/card applications, and waiting some time before they are issued. This makes the proposed scenario impossible.

Quote

On this card is a special "social-security number" so to speak used to identify them for tax purposes. (Only US citezens may collect social security, un-employment, etc)

"The number for tax purposes" already exists; it is called ITIN. Anyone can get it - you don't even have to be in US.

Quote

Only families that are contributing to our country may get health care or send thier kids to our schools.

Could you please explain the "get health care" part? Did you mean free health care, or paid/insurance-based health care? If you mean free health care, I see no reason why they should even get it, and if you mean paid health care, I see no reason for this restriction.

Quote

While Illeagals still have basic human rights, they still don't have the rights of US citezens. They don't vote and can be paid less than minumum wage.

You missed one important point: in your scenario could they work everywhere, or they still need some kind of employer authorization? If they could work everywhere, this "visa" is much better than every U.S. working visa, and basically could be considered a Green Card itself.

Quote

After these ID cards have been in place for a month, unleash the hounds. Any illeagals still in the country get exported.

How it supposed to work? The whole country raided by Border Patrol checking for illegals?

Quote

These ID cards can be given to any person crossing the border that can speak a little english and can verify they are not criminals.

So you mentioned background check here; how is it supposed to be done on border? Just to give you an idea, issuing a 1-year _guest_ visa to U.S. currently takes around 10 days, which are also spend on background check. Background check for immigrant visa could take months, or even years.

Quote

Maybe we can send something to our goverment that might work since they can't do it them selves.

Most likely not. The world is balanced, and as soon as you fix one thing, something else will be broken. There are no illegal immigrants in North Korea, but they have other problems.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[joedirt 0]

I would add a minefield.

[Nightingale 0]

Quote

While Illeagals still have basic human rights, they still don't have the rights of US citezens. They don't vote and can be paid less than minumum wage. There are still certain things that require a green card. the Agriculture business and sweat shops can still thrive.

That'll just make the problem worse. Right now, illegals are usually paid less than citizens, because they're paid under the table and will work for whatever wage they can get. However, your system places a minimum wage only on citizens, leaving employers free to legally hire immigrants at a lesser wage.

First off, that'd just encourage more of them to come in here, because now they can work legally. Second, it would actively discourage employers from hiring citizens, because they can pay non citizens less. That makes no sense at all.

A better system would be to eliminate the minimum wage entirely. The current system encourages under-the-table transactions. Your system encourages the hiring of non-citizens over citizens. Eliminate the minimum wage, and you eliminate one of the biggest reasons people hire non-citizens. Simply allow employers to pay what the employer feels the job is worth, and you eliminate the incentive to hire under the table. Follow that up with huge fines for hiring illegal immigrants, and you might have a system that works a little better than the current one.

If the minimum wage is eliminated, so is all incentive to hire illegal immigrants, and it's replaced by a huge incentive to hire people here already. Businesses want to run their businesses above-board. They don't want to try to bury under-the-table payments to illegal workers if they don't have to. They certainly don't want to pay fines. Right now, they have to hire under-the-table workers, because they know you won't pay $20 a basket for your strawberries. Eliminate the minimum wage, and you eliminate the need to hire under the table at all.



As an aside: I don't care what language they speak. Studies show that immigrants tend to lose the first language by the third generation anyway.

[jgoose71 0]

Quote

Maybe we should have rules where your US citizenship is revoked if you can't, oh, say, spell words a 4th grader could?

"Potato, P-O-T-A-T-O-E" Can I run for office now?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Quote

If you live in Seattle or Main...

Maybe we should have rules where your US citizenship is revoked if you can't, oh, say, spell words a 4th grader could?

Now to poke some holes:
1.) "unleashing the dogs" isn't possible. Not enough resources.
2.) if you had the choice between using your "no US rights ID" and using your "no US rights ID" to come into the US and then using fake ID, which would you choose?

Go to your local elementary and high school and count up the number of "illegals" you have in that school. Then come back here and tell us what percentage it is. I'll even go a step further, and let you say that ALL the mexicans you can see are probably illegals. (To give you the benefit of the doubt). Then we'll take that percentage, apply it to your yearly income tax and then you can tell how much, in dollars you think you're getting ripped off (just on the local education front). To top it off, do you think you'd be able to buy your family a fastfood meal with that money?

Or is this not a "petty thing" and a thing of principle?

.jim

Goddamn. More spelling police. Got anything better to do than bitch about somebodys speeling?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[akarunway 1]

"If the card is "unforgeable", you cannot give it to them right at border. It should be made on a special facility with limited access. Even driver licenses (which are not unforgeable) are not issued in DMV"________________________________________________> What rock do you live under? All the DMVs I go to issue driver licenses on the spot. And there are plenty of cases of fake ones out there. I could go buy one right now for a couple hundred bucks.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[kallend 2,026]

Quote

Basically, english is the language of money. It also allows us to communicate freely with one another. If you know of any board rooms in the fortune 500 companies that hold meetings in spanish, I will take it back. You don't have to speak english in the US to be successful, but it helps.

Whoosh.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[narcimund 0]

Quote

Goddamn. More spelling police. Got anything better to do than bitch about somebodys speeling?

When the OP argues that someone's weakness in the English language should result in them losing civil rights, then pointing out his own errors is a legitimate primary rebuttal.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[BIGUN 1,307]

The following is an article by the "Federation for American Immigration Reform" (FAIR):

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_research3327

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Zipp0 1]

Quote

Eliminate the minimum wage, and you eliminate one of the biggest reasons people hire non-citizens. Simply allow employers to pay what the employer feels the job is worth, and you eliminate the incentive to hire under the table. Follow that up with huge fines for hiring illegal immigrants, and you might have a system that works a little better than the current one.

If the minimum wage is eliminated, so is all incentive to hire illegal immigrants......

What, you think only illegals work under the table? The incentives to hire illegals, or anyone else under the table, has to do with benefits, taxes, paperwork, etc, as much as it has to do with the wage paid. All eliminating the min wage will do is hurt the USA's working poor.

How about we just enforce the law already on the books?

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

What rock do you live under? All the DMVs I go to issue driver licenses on the spot.

In California you get your driver license by mail. DMV only issues temporary driving licenses (i.e. pieces of paper).

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[billvon 2,991]

>After these ID cards have been in place for a month, unleash the hounds.
>Any illeagals still in the country get exported.

How do you know?

"Where's your ID card?"
"I don't have one. I'm a citizen."
"Oh. Then where's your citizen card?"
"There's no such thing."
"Oh. Uh. Where's your social security card?"
"No idea. I haven't seen that thing in ten years."
"How about driver's license?"
"Right here, but you don't have to be a citizen to get one."

That's hard to enforce unless you have a national ID card. National ID cards are unpopular.

My solution:

Require everyone to get a card, as you suggest. Crack down on employers; they can't hire anyone who doesn't have a card or proof of citizenship. (easier to do for proof of employment.) Withhold 46% (or whatever the maximum amount is) in taxes from all nonresident workers.

Let them work for a year. At the end of the year, they go back to their home countries, present their paystub to the US Embassy there, and get their tax money back. If they don't go back, they don't get the money.

[FreeflyChile 0]

Quote

2) They don't speak english

By this rationale, there are a lot of low-income areas in Chicago and other big cities that should be deported because they speak English just as poorly as immigrants...

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

What, you think only illegals work under the table? The incentives to hire illegals, or anyone else under the table, has to do with benefits, taxes, paperwork, etc, as much as it has to do with the wage paid. All eliminating the min wage will do is hurt the USA's working poor.

How about we just enforce the law already on the books?

Actually, minimum wage increases tend to hurt the working poor...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,991]

>Actually, minimum wage increases tend to hurt the working poor...

Minimum wage helps the working poor. It hurts the unemployed.

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

>Actually, minimum wage increases tend to hurt the working poor...

Minimum wage helps the working poor. It hurts the unemployed.

Especially those unemployed who got fired as a result of the increases.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

>Let them work for a year. At the end of the year, they go back to their home countries, present their paystub to the US Embassy there, and get their tax money back. If they don't go back, they don't get the money.

No, they lived here and worked here. They don't get ALL their tax money back. Just difference between what they'd pay if they were residents and what was withheld - "minus all processing costs that supported the Billvon tax withholding program for temporary workers" - heck, once congress got ahold of that cash, with no incentive to return it, I doubt any temp worker would ever see a penny.

other than that, I think it's a great concept

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mnealtx 0]

Exactly - when faced with a mandatory wage increase, the lowest skilled workers (those same workers that the minimum wage increase is SUPPOSED to help) end up being fired in order to make budget.

It also affects business expansion - that same business owner may have planned to hire 4 new people, but now can only afford to hire 2, etc, etc...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Nightingale 0]

Or, they raise prices and pass the cost along to their customers. The money has to come from somewhere, and it sure isn't from big business.