The Secret

[philh 0]

I would say there are a large number of things in life which are completley out of ones control. If you were a Jew in Nazi germany, a Tutsi in early 90's Rwanda or someone suspected of whitchcraft in Salem , I doubt your attitude would make any difference whatsoever. This is also true for things less dramatic eg the best predictors of childs performance in school is their parents performance at school.
Im not saying a positive attitude has no effect, but there are so many other forces at work that one cannot control, that it would be ludicrous to say they have the sort of all powerful effect implied in "the LAw of Attraction".

[JackC 0]

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Im not saying a positive attitude has no effect, but there are so many other forces at work that one cannot control, that it would be ludicrous to say they have the sort of all powerful effect implied in "the LAw of Attraction".

This "secret" sound like neuro-linguistic programming wrapped up in some fancy bullshit if you ask me. It has some merits but there's no hocus pocus going on and it only works for things that are in your control anyway.

The thinking is simple, people who want to be successful at something tend to put themselves in positions that enhances their potential to be successful. For example, people who want to be good skydivers tend to hang out with and learn from other good skydivers, they think and read about skydiving alot and spend as much time as they can skydiving. Same with playing tennis, building a business empire or any other skill. It's amazing how many actors and musicians turn out to have been on TV as a child or have links to the industry in some other way before they got famous. That may be by virtue of birth or just good fortune, but if you could engineer those links artificially, you'd be good to go.

In essence you look at people who are successful, analyse how they got where they are and what makes them good and then emulate. It's no secret.

[vortexring 0]

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There's a lot of hype surrounding it, but I think there's some truth to it. as someone else pointed out, it's like Peale's Power of Positive Thinking.

the silly part is about it being this HUGE SECRET that people in power have deliberately kept hidden. That's just hype to make it sound more exciting.


But I think there is something to the effect of the attitude you bring to life affecting outcome.

For example, I know this guy who is ill all the time. He's got this real negative personality and EXPECTS to get sick easily, and it seems to happen. It really looks as though he wills himself to get sick.

Normally I'll read the rest of a thread prior to replying. I have to jump on this. It's hit a nerve, so to speak!
I know of native Africans, and native Australians who've quite literally died for no physical reason. They've died simply because the 'witch doctor,' through certain circumstances, decreed they would die. And they did. That, Ladies and Gentlemen, is beyond my logical rational. Fuckin' mental basically. Who on the 'western' earth could explain that?

All I can relate that to in my experience is perhaps couples married for scores of years, and one dies. The other isn't normally too far behind. But where is the explanation for this scenario regarding fit and strong young men in their teens and early twenties?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[vortexring 0]

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Philippians 4: 8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

I don't think it is a "law", but it beats the doing the opposite. IMHO

Thanks for piping in with the bible Steve. Despite myself having a questionable faith in regards to parables from an ancient book written by an ancient race, it's always welcome to have points of wisdom from the book brought into modern debates. It certainly helps address and surprise the issue of ones faith.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[philh 0]

"In essence you look at people who are successful, analyse how they got where they are and what makes them good and then emulate. It's no secret"

Do you have any evidence that this process is more of a determining factor than other processes eg genetics, social group, peer groups, luck etc ?

Look at actors, Id be amazed if most of them dont try startegies like you suggest, but most fo them are unemployed. Wheres the evidence the deployment of strategies like you outline are mmore important than thhe other processes i mentioned?

[dorbie 0]

Stress response, and it's still an anecdote, and uncontrolled. You do not know nor have control over the totality of circumstances, nor a fair comparrison to draw. Moreover the witchdoctor may pick his victim carefully for no reason than to boost his reputation. People remember the cursees who die, but the little bastard may have issued a curse every week for a decade and finally got lucky.

Finally, if there's one thing your brain has power over it's your body, this does not translate to external material factors except through more mundane processes like positive attitude affecting success in the conventional sense.

[vortexring 0]

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Stress response, and it's still an anecdote, and uncontrolled. You do not know nor have control over the totality of circumstances, nor a fair comparrison to draw. Moreover the witchdoctor may pick his victim carefully for no reason than to boost his reputation. People remember the cursees who die, but the little bastard may have issued a curse every week for a decade and finally got lucky.

Finally, if there's one thing your brain has power over it's your body, this does not translate to external material factors except through more mundane processes like positive attitude affecting success in the conventional sense.

Well Dorbie, I think I've been able to extract at least the general meaning of your point, which, most unfortunately, comes to nothing other than your average speculation and dull, and supposedly educated, guesses. The intrinsic mystery of the problem is really quite unfanthomable by modern means.

Anyway, I've been developing another theory in regards to yourself, and your recent posts. It's essential for my thesis to be published you stae your sex; male or female. I'm guessing male - confirm please.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[philh 0]

Doribe posted a very intelligent response to you so called mystery and you havent addressed thsoe resposnses at all . if Doribe want to remain anonymous then why should bothe ryou. It is the argument you have to address not the person behind it.

[JackC 0]

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"In essence you look at people who are successful, analyse how they got where they are and what makes them good and then emulate. It's no secret"

Do you have any evidence that this process is more of a determining factor than other processes eg genetics, social group, peer groups, luck etc ?

Look at actors, Id be amazed if most of them dont try startegies like you suggest, but most fo them are unemployed. Wheres the evidence the deployment of strategies like you outline are mmore important than thhe other processes i mentioned?

The factors you mention that you can't do much about (like genetics or talent) do matter a lot and all you can do is make the most of what you've got. But things like social group are well within your power to affect. Even luck can be engineered to some degree by stacking the cards in your favour.

All things being equal, the person who puts themselves voluntarily into positions where they have a chance to succeed will do better than those who sit on their ass and dream. Do I really need evidence to prove this to you?

What is bullshit is the idea that you can merely think yourself rich, famous, good looking and hey presto, you win the lottery, get that recording contract and marry a supermodel.

In short, the only "secret" about this film is that people really are gullible enough to pay cash money for it. But then human stupidity is no secret either.

[philh 0]

"All things being equal, the person who puts themselves voluntarily into positions where they have a chance to succeed will do better than those who sit on their ass and dream. "

I agree with that,it appears the makers of the movie "The Secret" dont. Sitting on your arse and dreaming is exactly what they are selling and its selling like hot cakes.

[Zenister 0]

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I would say there are a large number of things in life which are completley out of ones control.

you can (learn to) control your reaction to anything.. how you react largely determines how well you fair...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Remster 30]

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I would say there are a large number of things in life which are completley out of ones control. If you were a Jew in Nazi germany

And yet...

There was an article I red rencently (sorry, cant recall or find it) where an Auschwitz survivor recalled that the one way he was able to survive mentally from it was to take solace that no one could take away his free will. That made him content.

Now, I'm not saying that its this that made him come out of the death camp alive, but it does show some of the power your thoughts can have on you.

Again, I think this Secret thing is a lot of gobly gook, but it has some basis in, mmmm, I dont want to say fact, but maybe observation.

Remster

[dorbie 0]

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Stress response, and it's still an anecdote, and uncontrolled. You do not know nor have control over the totality of circumstances, nor a fair comparrison to draw. Moreover the witchdoctor may pick his victim carefully for no reason than to boost his reputation. People remember the cursees who die, but the little bastard may have issued a curse every week for a decade and finally got lucky.

Finally, if there's one thing your brain has power over it's your body, this does not translate to external material factors except through more mundane processes like positive attitude affecting success in the conventional sense.

Well Dorbie, I think I've been able to extract at least the general meaning of your point, which, most unfortunately, comes to nothing other than your average speculation and dull, and supposedly educated, guesses. The intrinsic mystery of the problem is really quite unfanthomable by modern means.

Anyway, I've been developing another theory in regards to yourself, and your recent posts. It's essential for my thesis to be published you stae your sex; male or female. I'm guessing male - confirm please.

I offer a plausible explanation (in fact an array of them which more than adequately address the "mystery"), you offer none, merely a mystery. You prefer your mystery to a rather banal explanation. Ockham's razor prefers my admittedly dull supposedly educated offering. In fact regardless there is nothing to correlate the death of an individual to the universal attraction voodoo of "Secrets". As I said before, if there's one thing your brain has some degree of control over it is your body.

Yes I am male, I await your thesis with trepidation.

[vortexring 0]

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Stress response, and it's still an anecdote, and uncontrolled. You do not know nor have control over the totality of circumstances, nor a fair comparrison to draw. Moreover the witchdoctor may pick his victim carefully for no reason than to boost his reputation. People remember the cursees who die, but the little bastard may have issued a curse every week for a decade and finally got lucky.

Finally, if there's one thing your brain has power over it's your body, this does not translate to external material factors except through more mundane processes like positive attitude affecting success in the conventional sense.

Well Dorbie, I think I've been able to extract at least the general meaning of your point, which, most unfortunately, comes to nothing other than your average speculation and dull, and supposedly educated, guesses. The intrinsic mystery of the problem is really quite unfanthomable by modern means.

Anyway, I've been developing another theory in regards to yourself, and your recent posts. It's essential for my thesis to be published you stae your sex; male or female. I'm guessing male - confirm please.

I offer a plausible explanation (in fact an array of them which more than adequately address the "mystery"), you offer none, merely a mystery. You prefer your mystery to a rather banal explanation. Ockham's razor prefers my admittedly dull supposedly educated offering. In fact regardless there is nothing to correlate the death of an individual to the universal attraction voodoo of "Secrets". As I said before, if there's one thing your brain has some degree of control over it is your body.

Yes I am male, I await your thesis with trepidation.

I almost missed your reply, essentially through forgeting my last post.
I didn't offer anything for a particular and rather obvious reason.
I doubt there are mysterious powers that killed the individuals. What I don't get is how they simply just allow themselves to slip away. How an individual can receive some form of 'curse' then, a couple of days later, die.(The said individuals had no desire to die.)

So I can't understand how the human mind can be lulled into a state where it literally and permanently shuts itself down, because another mind decreed it to be the right thing to do. Nuts.

Your posts are unable to address this. Yes of course, your theory is sound but......

I wouldn't care a thought in regards to my 'thesis.' I made my post after a few beers and spotted an opportunity to take the piss. But in hindsight it might have been rather rude, a bit like my previous post. So I've binned the idea. You might have laughed but why risk offense if none is intended?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[dorbie 0]

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I wouldn't care a thought in regards to my 'thesis.' I made my post after a few beers and spotted an opportunity to take the piss. But in hindsight it might have been rather rude, a bit like my previous post. So I've binned the idea. You might have laughed but why risk offense if none is intended?

Although I'm confident you've offended more than your share, I don't think you'd want to offend another fellow Scotsman.

P.S. thanks for the consideration.