Royd 0 #176 June 12, 2007 >Does the universe go on forever or is there a finite border? QuoteThere is indeed a finite border, given by the maximal distance from origin any particle (photon to alpha particle) could have traveled at the speed of light since the universe began. That is, assuming the the universe, as we know it, began at a single point in the heavens;i.e. the big bang. Who says that there couldn't have been any number of these monstrous explosions? We have yet to see to the edge of the universe, so you are assuming this by faith. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,009 #177 June 12, 2007 > Who says that there couldn't have been any number of these monstrous explosions? There well could have been, but you didn't ask that, nor does it change my original definition. If you believe that there are many such events happening outside our event horizon - THAT would be a good definition of an article of faith. > We have yet to see to the edge of the universe, so you are assuming this by faith. I have never seen my liver either, but it would be inaccurate to say that "I take it on faith" that I have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #178 June 12, 2007 Quote >Whatever you believe about it is totally done by faith. Not really. There's a bit of a difference between ignorance, knowledge and faith. I've gotten warnings for less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,501 #179 June 12, 2007 Quote>Does the universe go on forever or is there a finite border? QuoteThere is indeed a finite border, given by the maximal distance from origin any particle (photon to alpha particle) could have traveled at the speed of light since the universe began. That is, assuming the the universe, as we know it, began at a single point in the heavens;i.e. the big bang. Who says that there couldn't have been any number of these monstrous explosions? We have yet to see to the edge of the universe, so you are assuming this by faith. *Sigh* COBE.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #180 June 12, 2007 because: religion can never save mankind,religion is slaverywe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #181 June 12, 2007 QuoteQuote>Does the universe go on forever or is there a finite border? QuoteThere is indeed a finite border, given by the maximal distance from origin any particle (photon to alpha particle) could have traveled at the speed of light since the universe began. Can we assume, based on previous experience with the known universe, that there is a Starbucks and a Burger King at this border? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,501 #182 June 12, 2007 I don't know, but there is a restaurant at the end of it.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #183 June 12, 2007 QuoteCan we assume, based on previous experience with the known universe, that there is a Starbucks and a Burger King at this border? I think it's more likely to be a Starbucks and a McDonalds. And probably a Walmart too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #184 June 12, 2007 Those little photons could probably use a burger or a latte after traveling all that distance. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,009 #185 June 12, 2007 > Those little photons could probably use a burger or a latte after traveling >all that distance. After traveling all that distance, though, they'd probably feel more at home at a Red Lobster. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #186 June 12, 2007 Quote> Those little photons could probably use a burger or a latte after traveling >all that distance. After traveling all that distance, though, they'd probably feel more at home at a Red Lobster. Noice!!!!!!! You shifted right into that one!Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #187 June 12, 2007 QuoteQuote> Those little photons could probably use a burger or a latte after traveling >all that distance. After traveling all that distance, though, they'd probably feel more at home at a Red Lobster. Noice!!!!!!! You shifted right into that one! ...groans... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #188 June 12, 2007 Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #189 June 12, 2007 Laughter is laughing at the funny thing the funny person said. A good hearty groan is laughing at oneself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #190 June 12, 2007 Quote Can we assume, based on previous experience with the known universe, that there is a Starbucks and a Burger King at this border? You can be sure that there is no fence to keep the aliens out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #191 June 12, 2007 > Who says that there couldn't have been any number of these monstrous explosions? Quote There well could have been, but you didn't ask that, nor does it change my original definition. If you believe that there are many such events happening outside our event horizon - THAT would be a good definition of an article of faith. My point is that much of what we assume about the universe, even with the help of satellites, is assumption based on current knowledge. To say, on the one hand, that one is arrogant to believe the Earth is the only planet in the universe that contains life, but then give a shoulder shrug as to whether the universe is finite or infinite is hypocritical. By the logic presented here, if you can't see, touch, or smell it, it doesn't exist, then we currently have no choice but to believe that we are the only planet that possesses life. Anything else is based on faith. If Captain Kirk can do it, then so can Moses. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,501 #192 June 12, 2007 QuoteTo say, on the one hand, that one is arrogant to believe the Earth is the only planet in the universe that contains life, but then give a shoulder shrug as to whether the universe is finite or infinite is hypocritical. You are incorrect on this and many other points of science and logic. (Did I do that right?) On the one hand, someone says they do not know if the universe is infinite or not because they do not have sufficient information to know for sure. On the other hand, someone says that Earth is the only planet in the universe that contains life, even though they do not have sufficient information to know for sure. Please tell me you can see the difference.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CameraNewbie 0 #193 June 12, 2007 QuoteSee the above post. I thought I was the one 'telling it like it is'? You were and you and I are the few that say it as simply as that. Other Atheists here like to go above and beyond to disprove gods. You can't say it more accurately than "gods don't exist". Plain and simple, cut and dry. No need to get into a whole discussion about it because our only answer will be, "gods don't exist".What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,009 #194 June 12, 2007 >My point is that much of what we assume about the universe, even with >the help of satellites, is assumption based on current knowledge. Well, deduction based on current and past knowledge. >To say, on the one hand, that one is arrogant to believe the Earth is the >only planet in the universe that contains life, but then give a shoulder >shrug as to whether the universe is finite or infinite is hypocritical. It is likely that other planets have life on them. We have seen the edges of the universe reflected back to us in microwave radiation, so it is likely that there are indeed bounds. Indeed, our system of physics require the universe to be bounded. >By the logic presented here, if you can't see, touch, or smell it, it doesn't >exist, then we currently have no choice but to believe that we are the only >planet that possesses life. Anything else is based on faith. Nope. Intelligent people use tools (like telescopes, electron microscopes, PCR, voltmeters, gas chromatographs, you name it) to extend the reach of their senses. These provide experimental results that allow us to understand the universe - and that's the opposite of faith. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hairyjuan 0 #195 June 13, 2007 the ugly truth about religionwe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #196 June 13, 2007 Re: [Royd] Religion: Why do you care? by jakee Post: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To say, on the one hand, that one is arrogant to believe the Earth is the only planet in the universe that contains life, but then give a shoulder shrug as to whether the universe is finite or infinite is hypocritical. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteYou are incorrect on this and many other points of science and logic. (Did I do that right?) On the one hand, someone says they do not know if the universe is infinite or not because they do not have sufficient information to know for sure. On the other hand, someone says that Earth is the only planet in the universe that contains life, even though they do not have sufficient information to know for sure. Please tell me you can see the difference.You say that you operate on logic and facts. That which you can see, touch or taste. You also say that faith is a wasted function of the mind and you always say we must prove that God exists. You say that there is no way, in all of the planets of all of the stars that we are the only one which possesses life. Sounds like faith to me. I am now taking your position. So far, we haven't found life elsewhere. Either life can establish itself in conditions different from this Petri dish called Earth or it can't. If it can, and I'm using the timelines people quote in here, in the billions of years that the universe or universes have existed it would have already happened somewhere. I say we are the only ones out there and I would like for you to prove me wrong. Also, if you believe, or have an inkling of thought that I am wrong, you are doing so by faith. I say that faith, sans religion, is a natural conditon of the human phsyche. Even the most disciplined scientist gets into his car and drives to work in the morning believing that he is going to get there. That is done by faith. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,501 #197 June 13, 2007 Quote If it can, and I'm using the timelines people quote in here, in the billions of years that the universe or universes have existed it would have already happened somewhere. I say we are the only ones out there and I would like for you to prove me wrong. Also, if you believe, or have an inkling of thought that I am wrong, you are doing so by faith. Bullshit! You simply do not understand the difference in the two statements on this thread that started this discussion. One person (you) says "I don't know all the facts but I am going to make a solid statement anyway." Another person (the rest of us) says "I don't know all the facts so I am going to hold off judgement on the issue." That is why you are making the arrogant statement by saying Earth is the only planet in the universe capable of sustaining life. It is an utterly unsupportable assertion.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #198 June 13, 2007 Quote Bullshit! You simply do not understand the difference in the two statements on this thread that started this discussion. One person (you) says "I don't know all the facts but I am going to make a solid statement anyway." Another person (the rest of us) says "I don't know all the facts so I am going to hold off judgement on the issue." Oh. It that how you interpreted the OP and how this discussion has played out.... Royd on one side and everyone else in opposition? Quote That is why you are making the arrogant statement by saying Earth is the only planet in the universe capable of sustaining life. It is an utterly unsupportable assertion. What other planets are capable of sustaining life? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,501 #199 June 13, 2007 QuoteOh. It that how you interpreted the OP and how this discussion has played out.... Royd on one side and everyone else in opposition? Not the OP, the post of Royd's that started this particular discussion. QuoteWhat other planets are capable of sustaining life? [Wink] Chalk up NCclimber to those who cannot grasp the distinction.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #200 June 13, 2007 Quote Quote What other planets are capable of sustaining life? [Wink] Chalk up NCclimber to those who cannot grasp the distinction. Since you seem to think you're so smart, how about you explaining to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next Page 8 of 12 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
jakee 1,501 #182 June 12, 2007 I don't know, but there is a restaurant at the end of it.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #183 June 12, 2007 QuoteCan we assume, based on previous experience with the known universe, that there is a Starbucks and a Burger King at this border? I think it's more likely to be a Starbucks and a McDonalds. And probably a Walmart too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #184 June 12, 2007 Those little photons could probably use a burger or a latte after traveling all that distance. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,009 #185 June 12, 2007 > Those little photons could probably use a burger or a latte after traveling >all that distance. After traveling all that distance, though, they'd probably feel more at home at a Red Lobster. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #186 June 12, 2007 Quote> Those little photons could probably use a burger or a latte after traveling >all that distance. After traveling all that distance, though, they'd probably feel more at home at a Red Lobster. Noice!!!!!!! You shifted right into that one!Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #187 June 12, 2007 QuoteQuote> Those little photons could probably use a burger or a latte after traveling >all that distance. After traveling all that distance, though, they'd probably feel more at home at a Red Lobster. Noice!!!!!!! You shifted right into that one! ...groans... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #189 June 12, 2007 Laughter is laughing at the funny thing the funny person said. A good hearty groan is laughing at oneself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #190 June 12, 2007 Quote Can we assume, based on previous experience with the known universe, that there is a Starbucks and a Burger King at this border? You can be sure that there is no fence to keep the aliens out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #191 June 12, 2007 > Who says that there couldn't have been any number of these monstrous explosions? Quote There well could have been, but you didn't ask that, nor does it change my original definition. If you believe that there are many such events happening outside our event horizon - THAT would be a good definition of an article of faith. My point is that much of what we assume about the universe, even with the help of satellites, is assumption based on current knowledge. To say, on the one hand, that one is arrogant to believe the Earth is the only planet in the universe that contains life, but then give a shoulder shrug as to whether the universe is finite or infinite is hypocritical. By the logic presented here, if you can't see, touch, or smell it, it doesn't exist, then we currently have no choice but to believe that we are the only planet that possesses life. Anything else is based on faith. If Captain Kirk can do it, then so can Moses. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,501 #192 June 12, 2007 QuoteTo say, on the one hand, that one is arrogant to believe the Earth is the only planet in the universe that contains life, but then give a shoulder shrug as to whether the universe is finite or infinite is hypocritical. You are incorrect on this and many other points of science and logic. (Did I do that right?) On the one hand, someone says they do not know if the universe is infinite or not because they do not have sufficient information to know for sure. On the other hand, someone says that Earth is the only planet in the universe that contains life, even though they do not have sufficient information to know for sure. Please tell me you can see the difference.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CameraNewbie 0 #193 June 12, 2007 QuoteSee the above post. I thought I was the one 'telling it like it is'? You were and you and I are the few that say it as simply as that. Other Atheists here like to go above and beyond to disprove gods. You can't say it more accurately than "gods don't exist". Plain and simple, cut and dry. No need to get into a whole discussion about it because our only answer will be, "gods don't exist".What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,009 #194 June 12, 2007 >My point is that much of what we assume about the universe, even with >the help of satellites, is assumption based on current knowledge. Well, deduction based on current and past knowledge. >To say, on the one hand, that one is arrogant to believe the Earth is the >only planet in the universe that contains life, but then give a shoulder >shrug as to whether the universe is finite or infinite is hypocritical. It is likely that other planets have life on them. We have seen the edges of the universe reflected back to us in microwave radiation, so it is likely that there are indeed bounds. Indeed, our system of physics require the universe to be bounded. >By the logic presented here, if you can't see, touch, or smell it, it doesn't >exist, then we currently have no choice but to believe that we are the only >planet that possesses life. Anything else is based on faith. Nope. Intelligent people use tools (like telescopes, electron microscopes, PCR, voltmeters, gas chromatographs, you name it) to extend the reach of their senses. These provide experimental results that allow us to understand the universe - and that's the opposite of faith. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #195 June 13, 2007 the ugly truth about religionwe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #196 June 13, 2007 Re: [Royd] Religion: Why do you care? by jakee Post: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To say, on the one hand, that one is arrogant to believe the Earth is the only planet in the universe that contains life, but then give a shoulder shrug as to whether the universe is finite or infinite is hypocritical. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteYou are incorrect on this and many other points of science and logic. (Did I do that right?) On the one hand, someone says they do not know if the universe is infinite or not because they do not have sufficient information to know for sure. On the other hand, someone says that Earth is the only planet in the universe that contains life, even though they do not have sufficient information to know for sure. Please tell me you can see the difference.You say that you operate on logic and facts. That which you can see, touch or taste. You also say that faith is a wasted function of the mind and you always say we must prove that God exists. You say that there is no way, in all of the planets of all of the stars that we are the only one which possesses life. Sounds like faith to me. I am now taking your position. So far, we haven't found life elsewhere. Either life can establish itself in conditions different from this Petri dish called Earth or it can't. If it can, and I'm using the timelines people quote in here, in the billions of years that the universe or universes have existed it would have already happened somewhere. I say we are the only ones out there and I would like for you to prove me wrong. Also, if you believe, or have an inkling of thought that I am wrong, you are doing so by faith. I say that faith, sans religion, is a natural conditon of the human phsyche. Even the most disciplined scientist gets into his car and drives to work in the morning believing that he is going to get there. That is done by faith. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,501 #197 June 13, 2007 Quote If it can, and I'm using the timelines people quote in here, in the billions of years that the universe or universes have existed it would have already happened somewhere. I say we are the only ones out there and I would like for you to prove me wrong. Also, if you believe, or have an inkling of thought that I am wrong, you are doing so by faith. Bullshit! You simply do not understand the difference in the two statements on this thread that started this discussion. One person (you) says "I don't know all the facts but I am going to make a solid statement anyway." Another person (the rest of us) says "I don't know all the facts so I am going to hold off judgement on the issue." That is why you are making the arrogant statement by saying Earth is the only planet in the universe capable of sustaining life. It is an utterly unsupportable assertion.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #198 June 13, 2007 Quote Bullshit! You simply do not understand the difference in the two statements on this thread that started this discussion. One person (you) says "I don't know all the facts but I am going to make a solid statement anyway." Another person (the rest of us) says "I don't know all the facts so I am going to hold off judgement on the issue." Oh. It that how you interpreted the OP and how this discussion has played out.... Royd on one side and everyone else in opposition? Quote That is why you are making the arrogant statement by saying Earth is the only planet in the universe capable of sustaining life. It is an utterly unsupportable assertion. What other planets are capable of sustaining life? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,501 #199 June 13, 2007 QuoteOh. It that how you interpreted the OP and how this discussion has played out.... Royd on one side and everyone else in opposition? Not the OP, the post of Royd's that started this particular discussion. QuoteWhat other planets are capable of sustaining life? [Wink] Chalk up NCclimber to those who cannot grasp the distinction.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #200 June 13, 2007 Quote Quote What other planets are capable of sustaining life? [Wink] Chalk up NCclimber to those who cannot grasp the distinction. Since you seem to think you're so smart, how about you explaining to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
