Were did God come from?

[kallend 2,027]

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As for prayer, it does not work, it has been tested and that is the hard science.

The scientific consensus, based on peer-reviewed studies, is that prayer does not work? Got a source?

here's one study as reported:

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/

In which scientific, peer-review journal was that study published?

Proof positive that you didn't bother to read the article.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,490]

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Once again, we are freaking over a small swing in temperature.

A small swing in temperature which could be catastrophic for us and for many other creatures, but not for all life on this planet.

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We have defined life by the confines of our little planet, and for it to continue all conditions must remain as they currently exist.

We have defined life by a number of criteria (which still aren't truely satisfactory), none of those criteria are "it has to look like what we see on earth".

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 2,027]

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P.S. to clarify; in the process prayer itself becomes an entirely introspective thing and the outcome matching the effort of the internal mind and nothing else, since science demonstrates that prayer does not work. Hence the only refuge is in something as yet immeasurable. Simultaneously there is an internal prayer or non-prayer that leads to other undesired outcomes. You see why I conclude it becomes rather silly.

If objective proof existed that prayer worked in any way that was not purely psychological, faith would be unnecessary.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Remster 30]

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We have defined life by the confines of our little planet, and for it to continue all conditions must remain as they currently exist.

Speak for yourself. I'm pretty sure most of the people looking at this issue through science rather then theology agree that life can take very varied form.

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Once again, we are freaking over a small swing in temperature.

Well, I'd kinda like to have humans around for a little longer, while limiting the changes in our environement. I kinda like the sea level where it is now.

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Think about the odds of all conditions being perfect for life, as we define it, to exist in any other solar system.

This star is too big, that one is too small, the planet's orbit isn't perfect, there's deadly gas on the surface or there's a 50,000 mile wide hurricane with 400mph winds blowing around.

Its only logical to start looking at planets with conditions that we know can harbour life, ie similar to earth's. This type of environment is the only one we know of that can arbor life at a 100% probablility.

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Either we limit ourselves to the definition of life as we know it or we accept the possibility of other forms which are beyond our current comprehension.

So, which planets are you investigating then Roy?

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Something more ethereal, shall we say?

Maybe! There could be honey smelling gaseous life forms feeding on tritanium out there!

Remster

[NCclimber 0]

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As for prayer, it does not work, it has been tested and that is the hard science.

The scientific consensus, based on peer-reviewed studies, is that prayer does not work? Got a source?

here's one study as reported:

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/

In which scientific, peer-review journal was that study published?

Proof positive that you didn't bother to read the article.

Please cite where the article stated in which journal the study was published.

Here's some exceprts from a NYT story.

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In a news conference, the authors of the study, led by Dr. Herbert Benson, a cardiologist and director of the Mind/ Body Medical Institute near Boston, said the findings were not the last word on the effects of so-called intercessory prayer. But the results, they said, raised questions about how and whether patients should be told that prayers were being offered for them.

"One conclusion from this is that the role of awareness of prayer should be studied further," said Dr. Charles Bethea, a cardiologist at the Integris Baptist Medical Center in Oklahoma City and a co-author of the study.

"The problem with studying religion scientifically is that you do violence to the phenomenon by reducing it to basic elements that can be quantified, and that makes for bad science and bad religion," said Dr. Richard Sloan, a professor of behavioral medicine at Columbia University in New York and author of a forthcoming book, "Blind Faith: The Unholy Alliance of Religion and Medicine." He added that such studies are "a waste of resources that could be better spent elsewhere."

Dean Marek, a chaplain at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, and a co-author of the report, said the study said nothing about the power of personal prayer or about prayers for family members and friends.

Working in a large medical center like Mayo, he said, "You hear tons of stories about the power of prayer, and I don't doubt them."...

.. experts said the study could not overcome perhaps the largest obstacle to prayer study: The unknown amount of prayer each person received from friends, families and congregations around the world who pray daily for the sick and dying.

Another story stated" findings were not statistically significant". What does that mean?

[Remster 30]

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Please cite where the article stated in which journal the study was published.

Google. Use. Love it. You're comming accross as someone who needs everyone else to do his job.

http://www.ahjonline.com/article/PIIS0002870305006496/abstract?kwhquery=prayer&restrictdesc_ymhj=American+Heart+Journal&restrictname_ymhj=ymhj&restrictterm_ymhj=ymhj&restricttype_ymhj=journal&search_area=journal&search_articletype=all&search_currenturi=http%3A%2F%2Fjournals.elsevierhealth.com%2Fperiodicals%2Fymhj%2Fsearch%2Fquick&search_datecombo=0%3AALL&search_dateradio=combo&search_discipline=&search_doi=&search_federated=no&search_issue=&search_keyword=&search_language=all&search_medline=&search_mode=journal&search_monthendcombo=jan&search_monthstartcombo=jan&search_operator1=and&search_operator2=and&search_preview=no&search_reqcount=20&search_reqfirst=1&search_resulturi=%2FBRAND%2Fsearch%2Fresults&search_s200=yes&search_searchuri=%2FBRAND%2Fsearch%2Fadvanced&search_sort=relevance&search_startpage=&search_submode=&search_text1=prayer&search_text2=&search_text3=&search_volume=&search_within1=all&search_within2=all&search_within3=all&search_wordsexactly=yes&search_yearend=&search_yearstart=&select1=relevance&select1=relevance&select2=no&select2=no&select3=20&select3=20

Remster

[jakee 1,490]

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Please cite where the article stated in which journal the study was published.

It was published in the journal that the report said it would be published in. If you didn't believe the report, why the fuck didn't you just search the journal like Remster did instead of bitching about it? Are you that desperate to have something to argue about?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 2,027]

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As for prayer, it does not work, it has been tested and that is the hard science.

The scientific consensus, based on peer-reviewed studies, is that prayer does not work? Got a source?

here's one study as reported:

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/

In which scientific, peer-review journal was that study published?

Proof positive that you didn't bother to read the article.

Please cite where the article stated in which journal the study was published.

So you still haven't read the article I linked. It has the journal title in it. Lazy!

I notice the nay-sayers had religious or spritual affiliations. What a surprise there!

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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Please cite where the article stated in which journal the study was published.

Google. Use. Love it. You're comming accross as someone who needs everyone else to do his job.

http://www.ahjonline.com/article/PIIS0002870305006496/abstract?kwhquery=prayer&restrictdesc_ymhj=American+Heart+Journal&restrictname_ymhj=ymhj&restrictterm_ymhj=ymhj&restricttype_ymhj=journal&search_area=journal&search_articletype=all&search_currenturi=http%3A%2F%2Fjournals.elsevierhealth.com%2Fperiodicals%2Fymhj%2Fsearch%2Fquick&search_datecombo=0%3AALL&search_dateradio=combo&search_discipline=&search_doi=&search_federated=no&search_issue=&search_keyword=&search_language=all&search_medline=&search_mode=journal&search_monthendcombo=jan&search_monthstartcombo=jan&search_operator1=and&search_operator2=and&search_preview=no&search_reqcount=20&search_reqfirst=1&search_resulturi=%2FBRAND%2Fsearch%2Fresults&search_s200=yes&search_searchuri=%2FBRAND%2Fsearch%2Fadvanced&search_sort=relevance&search_startpage=&search_submode=&search_text1=prayer&search_text2=&search_text3=&search_volume=&search_within1=all&search_within2=all&search_within3=all&search_wordsexactly=yes&search_yearend=&search_yearstart=&select1=relevance&select1=relevance&select2=no&select2=no&select3=20&select3=20

Well played.

The article said it was to published in AHJ. I looked and could not find it.

[NCclimber 0]

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Please cite where the article stated in which journal the study was published.

It was published in the journal that the report said it would be published in. If you didn't believe the report, why the fuck didn't you just search the journal like Remster did instead of bitching about it? Are you that desperate to have something to argue about?

You seem upset.

[kallend 2,027]

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Please cite where the article stated in which journal the study was published.

Google. Use. Love it. You're comming accross as someone who needs everyone else to do his job.

http://www.ahjonline.com/article/PIIS0002870305006496/abstract?kwhquery=prayer&restrictdesc_ymhj=American+Heart+Journal&restrictname_ymhj=ymhj&restrictterm_ymhj=ymhj&restricttype_ymhj=journal&search_area=journal&search_articletype=all&search_currenturi=http%3A%2F%2Fjournals.elsevierhealth.com%2Fperiodicals%2Fymhj%2Fsearch%2Fquick&search_datecombo=0%3AALL&search_dateradio=combo&search_discipline=&search_doi=&search_federated=no&search_issue=&search_keyword=&search_language=all&search_medline=&search_mode=journal&search_monthendcombo=jan&search_monthstartcombo=jan&search_operator1=and&search_operator2=and&search_preview=no&search_reqcount=20&search_reqfirst=1&search_resulturi=%2FBRAND%2Fsearch%2Fresults&search_s200=yes&search_searchuri=%2FBRAND%2Fsearch%2Fadvanced&search_sort=relevance&search_startpage=&search_submode=&search_text1=prayer&search_text2=&search_text3=&search_volume=&search_within1=all&search_within2=all&search_within3=all&search_wordsexactly=yes&search_yearend=&search_yearstart=&select1=relevance&select1=relevance&select2=no&select2=no&select3=20&select3=20

Well played.

The article said it was to published in AHJ. I looked and could not find it.

Need to brush up your skilz?

American Heart Journal, Volume 152, Issue 3, Pages e25-e25

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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So you still haven't read the article I linked.

This is a lie.

edited for clarification.

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I notice the nay-sayers had religious or spritual affiliations. What a surprise there!

Blah blah blah blah blah.

[NCclimber 0]

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http://www.ahjonline.com/article/PIIS0002870305006496/abstract?kwhquery=prayer&restrictdesc_ymhj=American+Heart+Journal&restrictname_ymhj=ymhj&restrictterm_ymhj=ymhj&restricttype_ymhj=journal&search_area=journal&search_articletype=all&search_currenturi=http%3A%2F%2Fjournals.elsevierhealth.com%2Fperiodicals%2Fymhj%2Fsearch%2Fquick&search_datecombo=0%3AALL&search_dateradio=combo&search_discipline=&search_doi=&search_federated=no&search_issue=&search_keyword=&search_language=all&search_medline=&search_mode=journal&search_monthendcombo=jan&search_monthstartcombo=jan&search_operator1=and&search_operator2=and&search_preview=no&search_reqcount=20&search_reqfirst=1&search_resulturi=%2FBRAND%2Fsearch%2Fresults&search_s200=yes&search_searchuri=%2FBRAND%2Fsearch%2Fadvanced&search_sort=relevance&search_startpage=&search_submode=&search_text1=prayer&search_text2=&search_text3=&search_volume=&search_within1=all&search_within2=all&search_within3=all&search_wordsexactly=yes&search_yearend=&search_yearstart=&select1=relevance&select1=relevance&select2=no&select2=no&select3=20&select3=20

Well played.

The article said it was to published in AHJ. I looked and could not find it.

Need to brush up your skilz?

American Heart Journal, Volume 152, Issue 3, Pages e25-e25

Pretty easy to post when someone else gives you the link, eh perfesser?

[jakee 1,490]

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So you still haven't read the article I linked. It has the journal title in it. Lazy!

This is a lie.

"It will appear in the American Heart Journal."

You sir, are a bare faced liar!

Pray tell, how you can possibly argue that this is not the title of the journal in which the report has been published?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 2,027]

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http://www.ahjonline.com/article/PIIS0002870305006496/abstract?kwhquery=prayer&restrictdesc_ymhj=American+Heart+Journal&restrictname_ymhj=ymhj&restrictterm_ymhj=ymhj&restricttype_ymhj=journal&search_area=journal&search_articletype=all&search_currenturi=http%3A%2F%2Fjournals.elsevierhealth.com%2Fperiodicals%2Fymhj%2Fsearch%2Fquick&search_datecombo=0%3AALL&search_dateradio=combo&search_discipline=&search_doi=&search_federated=no&search_issue=&search_keyword=&search_language=all&search_medline=&search_mode=journal&search_monthendcombo=jan&search_monthstartcombo=jan&search_operator1=and&search_operator2=and&search_preview=no&search_reqcount=20&search_reqfirst=1&search_resulturi=%2FBRAND%2Fsearch%2Fresults&search_s200=yes&search_searchuri=%2FBRAND%2Fsearch%2Fadvanced&search_sort=relevance&search_startpage=&search_submode=&search_text1=prayer&search_text2=&search_text3=&search_volume=&search_within1=all&search_within2=all&search_within3=all&search_wordsexactly=yes&search_yearend=&search_yearstart=&select1=relevance&select1=relevance&select2=no&select2=no&select3=20&select3=20

Well played.

The article said it was to published in AHJ. I looked and could not find it.

Need to brush up your skilz?

American Heart Journal, Volume 152, Issue 3, Pages e25-e25

Pretty easy to post when someone else gives you the link, eh perfesser?

For someone without the balls to reveal your name, your sure are obnoxious.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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For someone without the balls to reveal your name, your sure are obnoxious.

Does this qualify as a PA?

[billvon 2,991]

Your one warning.

[billvon 2,991]

>Royd, you are a scientific illiterate.

Your one warning.

[Remster 30]

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I looked and could not find it.

Yeah... I had to use a very complex search string to find it... : "prayer"

Remster

[tkhayes 348]

It was published by Harvard Medical School. In what 'journal', i do not know, but it was obviously made public by a well acclaimed and highly accredited educational institution.

TK

[jakee 1,490]

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It was published by Harvard Medical School. In what 'journal', i do not know, but it was obviously made public by a well acclaimed and highly accredited educational institution.

TK

Ummm, the journal title was in the original article, and has since been quoted and linked to several times on this thread!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,991]

>By the "pure logic" of the evolutionist, life should be able to create itself
>and adapt to the heat of Venus or Mercury, the barren landscape of Mars
>or the violence of the surface of Jupiter. It has had the billions of years to
>get the job done, yet it has not happened.

Nope. We barely understand how our _own_ life began. We have no idea how, say, methane or ammonia based life would begin.

>Life as we know it could not exist on Earth if our orbit was 10,000 miles
>closer or farther away from the sun.

OH NO! Bill Cole was right! Our planet is now 95 million miles from the sun; come November, it will be 91 million miles from the sun due to the elliptical orbit our planet follows. If life cannot exist if our orbit changes by even 10,000 miles, four million miles closer will surely incinerate us all instantly!

What are you doing to prepare to meet your end? Personally I'm answering every bit of spam I get from every Nigerian finance minister out there; surely one will send me the sum of 17.4 (SEVENTEEN POINT FOUR) MILLION DOLLARS so I can have a great incineration party.

>As it is we are wringing our hands over a couple of degrees in
>temperature change.

Hmm. Would you wring your hands if your kid had a measly five degree increase in his temperature? Worry wart.

>In all of the planets of all of the solar systems of all of the galaxies,
>our little chunk of rock and water is the only one that we can prove has
> what it takes to do the job.

?? We've only explored the surface of three planets so far. We've examined eight to some degree, and we know about 242 planets outside our solar system out of about 100 million possible ones. How do you know ours is the "only one that has what it takes to do the job?" Sounds like . . . faith!

[jakee 1,490]

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>Royd, you are a scientific illiterate.

Your one warning.

I don't get it. I didn't use profanity, I didn't call him names, I didn't disparage his character - what was the problem?

For future reference, what are acceptable ways of telling someone they lack knowledge in a subject? If I told someone they were crap at spelling I know for sure there would be no complaints - am I allowed to tell someone that they are crap at science?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,991]

>I don't get it.

You can't attack someone else EVEN IF YOU BELIEVE YOU ARE CORRECT. If Lutz posted here you couldn't tell him he was the worst skydiving student on the planet. If GWB posted here you couldn't tell him he was an idiot. If Michael Moore posted here you couldn't call him a fat lying hypocrite, even if you believe that to be the case.

Take the opposite. Suppose someone told you "you are obviously completely clueless about everything having to do with skydiving." Would you take that as a personal attack?

[NCclimber 0]

I'd avoid statements like:

"Can't you just fuck off already?"