Were did God come from?

[beowulf 1]

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If you were born to Muslim parents you would be singing a different song.

You don't go to hell because you've never heard of Jesus Christ or the gospel. You go to hell because you've lied, stolen, blasphemed, committed adultery, murdered, coveted, etc. No one is innocent.

You didn't answer my question before...

"What has any figure written about in the Koran done which would convince me or anyone else to believe?"

I don't know I have never read the Koran. I could ask the same question about the Bible. Just because it was written in the Bible doesn't mean it's true.

[pajarito 0]

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No I wouldn't remove either with or with out pain for any amount of money. Money isn't worth that much to me.

Of course, you wouldn't. Neither would I. The eyes are merely the windows to your soul. How much more is your soul worth? What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and to lose his soul?

[pajarito 0]

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I don't know I have never read the Koran. I could ask the same question about the Bible. Just because it was written in the Bible doesn't mean it's true.

If you've not read it, how can you or anyone else here who hasn't read it make definitive statements about any truth that may or may not be within it.

[billvon 2,991]

>It's the best preserved and reliable text in antiquity. It has
>been scrutinized for thousands of years by the best.

It has indeed. Translation errors have been found; christian scholars either ignore these or come up with complex justifications for how it's not really an error.

It is certainly the most reliable book to christian scholars - but then again, the koran is the most reliable book to muslim scholars, and jewish scholars do not place much importance on the latter half of the bible.

>Does the President reside in the White House? How do you know?

Because reporters see him emerge from it, our laws provide for him to live there, he says he lives there, and his appearances there are consistent with his living there. Doesn't mean he _does_ live there, of course, but it's likely.

[beowulf 1]

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I don't know I have never read the Koran. I could ask the same question about the Bible. Just because it was written in the Bible doesn't mean it's true.

If you've not read it, how can you or anyone else here who hasn't read it make definitive statements about any truth that may or may not be within it.

I don't remember making any statments as to the Koran's truthfulness. Maybe you could refresh my memory?

[beowulf 1]

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No I wouldn't remove either with or with out pain for any amount of money. Money isn't worth that much to me.

Of course, you wouldn't. Neither would I. The eyes are merely the windows to your soul. How much more is your soul worth? What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and to lose his soul?

Still based on an assumption that you are correct and everyone else is wrong.

[pajarito 0]

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I don't know I have never read the Koran. I could ask the same question about the Bible. Just because it was written in the Bible doesn't mean it's true.

If you've not read it, how can you or anyone else here who hasn't read it make definitive statements about any truth that may or may not be within it.

I don't remember making any statments as to the Koran's truthfulness. Maybe you could refresh my memory?

Sorry......that was probably Jakee or someone else. Just trying to keep up. Same question applies to anyone, however.

[beowulf 1]

There are so many different views on the Bible that it loses credibility. Your interpretation is vastly different then say Chuteless. Yet you are trying to convince me that your interpretation is correct and I am going to suffer for my disbelieving in your God. If I were to suddenly drop all my current beliefs and turn to life religiousness which would I choose? From where I stand it all looks like a sea of insanity. I don't see any credibility in any of it. The bible is just an old book.

[jakee 1,489]

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Which is why it is so baffling that you continue to refuse to accept the grace of the one true God Allah. Don't you want to go to heaven?

What has any figure written about in the Koran done which would convince me or anyone else to believe?

Well Mohammed rode up to heaven and back, I thinkthat's pretty damn impressive don't you?

But regardless, I know you don't believe it, but where will you be going if it is true?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[freethefly 6]

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Should God send you to heaven or hell?

I don't know. I can't begin to guess where your imaginary being would send me to. Now if it were my imaginary being then I would have an answer.

My imaginary being would send you to Skydiver Hell where you would be called to gear up and then bumped to the next load continuosly for eternity for not believing in the his Holy Manifest

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[beowulf 1]

Wow that would really suck. What do I have to do to keep that from happening? Do you have a special book for me to study?

[pajarito 0]

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There are so many different views on the Bible that it loses credibility. Your interpretation is vastly different then say Chuteless. Yet you are trying to convince me that your interpretation is correct and I am going to suffer for my disbelieving in your God. If I were to suddenly drop all my current beliefs and turn to life religiousness which would I choose? From where I stand it all looks like a sea of insanity. I don't see any credibility in any of it. The bible is just an old book.

We can disagree on the non-essentials, however, we must (and I think we do) agree on the essentials. Those issues with regard to salvation (e.g. salvation (free gift from God) by grace through faith alone in Jesus Christ, the requirement of repentance and trust in the Savior (walking the narrow road through the Holy Spirit which resides within you if you are truly saved). Jesus Christ, born of a virgin, who died on the cross, rose 3 days later, defeating death, for the forgiveness of the sin of mankind. The requirement of being born again of the spirit, etc. All of this is backed up with scripture. You should read it for yourself with an open heart. Your eternal destiny is worth looking into.

[DSE 5]

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Of course, you wouldn't. Neither would I. The eyes are merely the windows to your soul. How much more is your soul worth? What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and to lose his soul?

Dunno about the soul, but the body is worth around 20.00, last I checked. Of course, you could get quite a bit for it on the international market, but thanks to the religious right, it's illegal to sell your body parts. I've got a few parts I don't need, wouldn't mind selling them if it meant retirement.

this argument is so ridiculous....Even a half-wit is capable of figuring out the non-existence of God as a physical individual that oversees the universe like some CEO. If there were a god, it's arrogant and naive to assume that because one gets on their knees to worship, that this god would pay attention to you specifically. Christian religion for the *most* part is about the satiation of ego ie; "I didn't mean to fuck my business partner, please forgive me." "I'm so sorry for having a bad though, please forgive me." "I'm deeply pained because I flipped that lady off when she drove by too fast, please grant me absolution." "Thank you god, for letting me come into heaven (but not that other guy) when I die." It's all about "I want, I want, I want" and then judging someone else because they don't ascribe to your thought process.
Individually, Christians and other faiths will say "We don't believe in that," or "I'd never do/think/say that sort of thing" but history and actions of the group as a whole show that the entire concept of most religion is one of power, put-down, pressure, and imprisonment.
God is an invention of man, no different than roads are an invention of man and animal combined with natural forces. The invention of god and subsquently the writings "of god" can be compared to Rand-McNally maps; a guideline from point A to B. The concept of god provides comfort and a focal point for otherwise lost souls. Is this bad? I don't think so, until those lost souls begin to judge others for not being on the same path.

[freethefly 6]

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it is simple, those that belive in god generally lack the inteligence to understand the sciience of our surroundings

Yeah, Albert Einstein believed in God; what an idiot that dude was.

Wrong, he did not believe in a god but, was in awe of the world around him.

I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms." [Albert Einstein, obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955]

"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature." [Albert Einstein,_The World as I See It_]


"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." [Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science", New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930]

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." [Albert Einstein, 1954, from "Albert Einstein: The Human Side", edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press]

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[beowulf 1]

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There are so many different views on the Bible that it loses credibility. Your interpretation is vastly different then say Chuteless. Yet you are trying to convince me that your interpretation is correct and I am going to suffer for my disbelieving in your God. If I were to suddenly drop all my current beliefs and turn to life religiousness which would I choose? From where I stand it all looks like a sea of insanity. I don't see any credibility in any of it. The bible is just an old book.

We can disagree on the non-essentials, however, we must (and I think we do) agree on the essentials. Those issues with regard to salvation (e.g. salvation (free gift from God) by grace through faith alone in Jesus Christ, the requirement of repentance and trust in the Savior (walking the narrow road through the Holy Spirit which resides within you if you are truly saved). Jesus Christ, born of a virgin, who died on the cross, rose 3 days later, defeating death, for the forgiveness of the sin of mankind. The requirement of being born again of the spirit, etc. All of this is backed up with scripture. You should read it for yourself with an open heart. Your eternal destiny is worth looking into.

I have read the Bible more then once. I wasn't convinced.

[pajarito 0]

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Well Mohammed rode up to heaven and back, I thinkthat's pretty damn impressive don't you?

But regardless, I know you don't believe it, but where will you be going if it is true?

Who saw it? How many died martyr's deaths because they saw and knew it to be true and would not deny it? By the way, Mohammed never claimed to be God incarnate. He also never claimed that he could forgive sin. He conquered his way to power and influence. What did he or any of his followers do to prove beyond all doubt that he held the truth? (by the way, you're right. I don't believe it. I don't see any evidence or reason to believe it. However, according to Islam, if I do not submit to Allah, I will go to hell.)

[shropshire 0]

Well it seems to me that Hell is going to be a very crowded place. All people before JC and there were many, because they had never heard his words of wisdom and his route to salvation. All people from all other countries that existed at the time of JC, who could never of heard his words, all people from other religions who do not believe that JC is THE saviour and most of the people that I know.

I may be in hell but I'll be in good company.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[freethefly 6]

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Wow that would really suck. What do I have to do to keep that from happening? Do you have a special book for me to study?

Always manifest twice! It is the secret to having eternal happiness

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[pajarito 0]

Even a half-wit is capable of figuring out the non-existence of God as a physical individual that oversees the universe like some CEO.

[pajarito 0]

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Well it seems to me that Hell is going to be a very crowded place. All people before JC and there were many, because they had never heard his words of wisdom and his route to salvation. All people from all other countries that existed at the time of JC, who could never of heard his words, all people from other religions who do not believe that JC is THE saviour and most of the people that I know.

I may be in hell but I'll be in good company.

Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. You don't have that option. You are commanded to repent and trust the Savior. By the way, hell is most definitely going to be a very crowded place and you won't be in good company. You will be in utter unimaginable terrifying torturous lonely agony and despair for eternity. That is NOT the will of God.

[shropshire 0]

Abraham aside, if I had never heard of the Saviour (and there must be countless millions, since the begining of our race that fall into that category.... to whom would they have repented?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Royd 0]

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How can anyone say the planet was not created, that is a bold statement requiring as much faith as any religious nut!

One step at a time! You'll get there.

[DSE 5]

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Even a half-wit is capable of figuring out the non-existence of God as a physical individual that oversees the universe like some CEO.

Not like some CEO. Like a holy, good, righteous, and just God, Creator of the Universe, who gave you the very breath for you to breathe.
Right...kinda like how the CEO of Haliburton gives me the "very right to breathe." According to the book that is barely fit to wipe my nose with.

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It's arrogant and naive to assume one knows the nature of God without actually seeking Him for youself.

Wowsers! So YOU have seen God yourself? With your own eyes? I thought that would immediately strike you dead to be in the presence of such perfection?

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It's not about me. It's not about you. It's ALL for the glory of God..

That could be the lyric of a hit song.

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God is an invention of man, no different than roads are an invention of man and animal combined with natural forces. The invention of god and subsquently the writings "of god" can be compared to Rand-McNally maps; a guideline from point A to B. The concept of god provides comfort and a focal point for otherwise lost souls. Is this bad? I don't think so, until those lost souls begin to judge others for not being on the same path.

Religion is simply a roadmap.

Added: But if that roadmap doesn't lead you to the cross, it is leading you in the wrong direction.
According to you. Sounds like a very large judgement to me.

Arguing these points with you is like arguing with a brick wall. You're wanting to believe in Fred Flintstone and I'm more interested in Einstein. No way am I gonna change your opinion and you're sure not going to change mine. As far as your concerned, I'm going to hell. Which is acceptable, because going to a non-existent place isn't anything to fear.

[tkhayes 348]

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Let's say the next time you went skydiving, you jumped out of the plane without your parachute because you didn't believe in the law of gravity

The difference is that I DO believe in the law of gravity and I can actually prove that it exists.

Whether or not I believe in God, I cannot prove that he exists, and neither can you.

And yes, I even have a will to live, but I am not so arrogant to assume that I will live forever. I am totally content to believe that once my life is over that it IS actually over.

TK

[Shotgun 1]

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it is simple, those that belive in god generally lack the inteligence to understand the sciience of our surroundings

Yeah, Albert Einstein believed in God; what an idiot that dude was.

Wrong, he did not believe in a god but, was in awe of the world around him.

And more quotes from Einstein:

"I want to know God's thoughts; the rest are details."

"God does not care about our mathematical difficulties. He integrates empirically."

In none of the quotes you listed did he say, "I do not believe in God," but he says that he doesn't believe in a certain type of god - a personal god or one "who rewards and punishes" people.

It sounds to me like he believed in god - his own definition of god. But whatever it was he believed in, he chose to call it "god"; therefore, he believed in god.

(And again, this is why saying that you do/don't believe in god means very little without further explanation.)