Were did God come from?

[tkhayes 348]

I think also that fundamentally, human beings have the capacity to ask 'Why?' Because of this, we invented gods and icons to explain the unexplainable.

As long as we can do this, we will continue to come up with things that we believe in with little or no proof - of course until we prove otherwise.

I know of no other creature in the world that can ask "why?"

Terrible accident happens - we say "God works in mysterious ways"

Someone has a close call and it is a 'miracle from God'

we are so unwilling to accept that 'shit happens' often for no reason at all and we seek explanation.

Which is fine by the way, if you really need to seek explanation and meaning in everything. But do it on your own time and don't force it into the laws of the country and thus into my daily life. I have rights too.

TK

[Zenister 0]

Ray Comfort needs to requaint himself with the fundamental principles of logic and reasoning, as his understanding as expressed in your brief quote is laughable at best.

he (like most fundamentalists)could also use a refresher on the definition of 'evidence'.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[shropshire 0]

>

I'm not so sure...... when we say "No" to the dogs, the look we often get back says " Why Not F**ker"

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[pirana 0]

My belly button lint.

Next question.

And please make it a little more challenging.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[tkhayes 348]

Actually your dog is more thinking:

"he said No" - feels bad, feels bad, feels bad

ooo biscuit!! feels good, feels good

They are just dogs, very smart, very fun, but still just dogs. They do not know time, they do not know 'love' as such.

What they convey is loyalty and protection and affection of sorts, but mostly from 'the pack' relationship they have with you.

Gotta have one - all the time. Got 5 right now

TK

[Royd 0]

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Have your faith if you like - I will stick to good old common sense based on what is actually going on around me. (and backing it up with solid and proven science.

Please explain the common sense of mans' inevitable self destruction which has been prophesied in the book of The Revelation.

Since we have come from nothing and should,by logic, be moving toward a better existance, why are we so intent on the destruction of those who don't agree with us?

[tkhayes 348]

moving towards a better existence sounds good on paper, but it is not reality nor does it necessarily express itself in nature. We kill or be killed, we eat or be eaten and so does every form of animal life on the planet. I never said that common sense included mans' inevitable self-destruction. I said that comon sense will eventually explain that which we do not know.

So your hypotheses does not fit the situation at all. Sure I HOPE for a better future, but I have little faith in mankind - we will certainly fuck it up for ourselves.

Just because the book of revelations prophesied something does not mean that this (today) is the 'event'. Many groups and people in the past has used the same propheses to describe their current situation. "The End is Near" has been used since the beginning of Christianity, even with the books written right after the death of Jesus.

So far they have all been wrong.

Our demise will be the destruction of our own environment - you can all it 'the Book' if you like, I will call plain old fashioned stupidity.

And I also firmly believe that our inevitable destruction will be mostly caused by religion - we cannot get along because we do not share the same beliefs. Those beliefs are entrenched in our faith and the belief that YOU are wrong and WE are right. (and the kill or be killed thing too)

Trouble is the other side(s) believe the same thing.

TK

[dorbie 0]

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God is not a prerequisite of quantum mechanics.

Did I suggest god was a prerequisit of quantum mechanics?

I at least hope you had your tongue in your cheek when you said:

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...wouldn't it more be that Heisenberg discovered god

The two are unrelated. Einstein once famously said "God does not play dice with the universe.", and since quantum mechanics and the indeterminacy principle is now firmly established we must reinterpret his attempted refutation of quantum theory.

[souleh 0]

Interesting. Just been reading 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkin' - he tends to rant a bit early on, but it's an interesting read.

Especially as I was brought up a stout Catholic, but consider myself to be an Atheist.

'buttplugs? where?' - geno

[DSE 5]

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The two are unrelated. Einstein once famously said "God does not play dice with the universe.", and since quantum mechanics and the indeterminacy principle is now firmly established we must reinterpret his attempted refutation of quantum theory.

Are they? Dots can be drawn relatively easily, if you would like.
As mentioned earlier, try "Quantum Evolution" by McFadden. If having will is a matter of consciousness, and consciousness is an element of quantum environment (the brain does generate an EMF) then can it be said that human will (the soul) is a focus of consciousness expressed in the form of focused neurons? Perhaps this inexplicable control of function can be defined as "God within."
In other words, god comes from us. Enthus.

[pajarito 0]

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"If God is so almighty powerful, can He make a rock so big that he himself cannot lift it?" - George Carlin

TK

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Can God make a rock so big He can't pick it up?

This question is representative of the type of paradoxes atheists use in attempts to prove that God cannot exist. It works like this. God is supposed to be omnipotent. If He is omnipotent, then He can create a rock so big that He can't pick it up. If He cannot make a rock like this, then He is not omnipotent. If He can make a rock so big He can't pick it up, then He isn't omnipotent either. Either way demonstrates that God cannot do something. Therefore God is not omnipotent. Therefore God does not exist.

Is this logical? A little. However, the problem is that this bit of logic omits some crucial information, therefore, it's conclusion is inaccurate.

What the above "paradox" lacks is vital information concerning God's nature. His omnipotence is not something independent of His nature. It is part of His nature. God has a nature and His attributes operate within that nature, as does anything and everything else.

For example, I have human nature. I can run. But, I cannot outrun a lion. My nature simply does not permit it. My ability to run is connected to my nature and I cannot violate it. So too with God. His omnipotence is connected to His nature since being omnipotent is part of what He is. Omnipotence, then, must be consistent with what He is and not with what He is not since His omnipotence is not an entity to itself. Therefore, God can only do those things that are consistent with His nature. He cannot lie because it is against His nature to do so. Not being able to lie does not mean He is not God or that He is not all powerful. Also, He cannot cease to be God. Since He is in all places at all times, if He stopped existing then He wouldn't be in all places at all time. Therefore, He cannot cease to exist without violating His own nature.

The point is that God cannot do something that is a violation of His own existence and nature. Therefore, He cannot make a rock so big he can't pick up, or make something bigger than Himself, etc. But, not being able to do this does not mean He is not God nor that He is not omnipotent. Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything conceivable, but the ability to do anything consistent with His nature and consistent with His desire within the realm of His unlimited and universal power which we do not possess. This does not mean He can violate His own nature. If He did something inconsistent with His nature, then He would be self contradictory. If God were self contradictory, He would not be true. Likewise, if He did something that violated his nature, like make a rock so big He can't pick it up, He would also not be true since that would be a self contradiction. Since truth is not self contradictory, as neither is God, if He were not true, then He would not be God. But God is true and not self contradictory, therefore, God cannot do something that violates His own nature.

Another way to look at it is realize that in order for God to make something so big He couldn't pick it up, He would have to make a rock bigger than Himself. Since He is infinite in size, He would have to make something that would be bigger than Himself. Since it is His nature to be the biggest thing in existence because He created all things, He cannot violate His own nature by making a rock that is larger than He.

Also, since a rock, by definition, is not infinitely big, then it isn't logically possible to make a rock, something that is finite in size, be infinite in size (no longer a rock) since only God is infinite in size. At dictionary.com, a rock is defined as a "Relatively hard, naturally formed mineral or petrified matter; stone. a) A relatively small piece or fragment of such material. b) A relatively large body of such material, as a cliff or peak. c) A naturally formed aggregate of mineral matter constituting a significant part of the earth's crust." A rock, by definition is not infinitely large. So, to say that the rock must be so big that God cannot pick it up is to say that the rock is no longer a rock.

What the critics are asking is that God become self contradictory as a proof He doesn't exist. Their assertion is illogical from the start. So what they are doing is trying to get God to be illogical. They want to use illogic to prove God doesn't exist instead of logic. It doesn't work and the "paradox" is self-refuting and invalid.

By the way, God, by his nature, also cannot and will not tolerate sin in any form. Therefore, he must punish lawbreakers. Anyone guilty of breaking his moral law (liars, thieves, blasphemers, adulterers, murderers, idolaters, etc.) will stand before God when they die, be judged and sent to hell. That's not His will that anyone should go to hell but it will happen because He is a just and holy God. "It is appointed unto man once to die, then the judgment."

[JackC 0]

^^ Yup, arguments like that are why I'm an atheist.

[pajarito 0]

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^^ Yup, arguments like that are why I'm an atheist.

Sorry you feel that way. As long as you know the consequences of your decision...

[souleh 0]

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^^ Yup, arguments like that are why I'm an atheist.

I'm with you on that.

To quote Karen Owens (who was quoted by Richard Dawkins, see above);

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Can Omniscient God, who
Knows the future, find
The omnipotence to
Change his future mind?

'buttplugs? where?' - geno

[pajarito 0]

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I'm with you on that.

To quote Karen Owens (who was quoted by Richard Dawkins, see above);

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Can Omniscient God, who
Knows the future, find
The omnipotence to
Change his future mind?

"They want to use illogic to prove God doesn't exist instead of logic. It doesn't work and the "paradox" is self-refuting and invalid."

[souleh 0]

Tell me, is God omniscient? That is to say, does God perceive all things? Does He have unlimited knowledge, awareness etc?

Is God omnipotent? (Is He all-powerful)?

'buttplugs? where?' - geno

[JackC 0]

I am confident that the only censequence of my decision is freedom from living with an illogical and mind bogglingly bizzare philosophy.

[beowulf 1]

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I'm with you on that.

To quote Karen Owens (who was quoted by Richard Dawkins, see above);

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Can Omniscient God, who
Knows the future, find
The omnipotence to
Change his future mind?

"They want to use illogic to prove God doesn't exist instead of logic. It doesn't work and the "paradox" is self-refuting and invalid."

That's very interesting, since there is no logical proof of the existance on any god or gods. Your God is not any more likely to exist then Vishnu or Odin or Allah.

[jakee 1,500]

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^^ Yup, arguments like that are why I'm an atheist.

Sorry you feel that way. As long as you know the consequences of your decision...

Yeah, my decision to be without such fallacious bullshit.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[pajarito 0]

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Tell me, is God omniscient? That is to say, does God perceive all things? Does He have unlimited knowledge, awareness etc?

Yes...in accordance with his nature. He cannot be something that he is not or do what is not in his nature to do (e.g. lie). That is illogical.

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Is God omnipotent? (Is He all-powerful)?

Same as above.

[shropshire 0]

He made everything.... what's he made of?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[pajarito 0]

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I am confident that the only censequence of my decision is freedom from living with an illogical and mind bogglingly bizzare philosophy.

Until you die. Then, if you die in your sin, you will be sent to hell. Complete separation from God's grace. Damnation. Lake of fire. The pit. Where the worm never dies. Unquenchable thirst. Conscious torment for eternity.

[pajarito 0]

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That's very interesting, since there is no logical proof of the existance on any god or gods. Your God is not any more likely to exist then Vishnu or Odin or Allah.

Strawman

The creation is proof that there had to be a Creator. A painting is proof that there had to be a painter. A building is proof that there had to be a builder. And your conscious bears witness to the fact that you've broken His moral law (liar thief, adulterer, blasphemer, etc.)

[pajarito 0]

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He made everything.... what's he made of?

I have no idea. I don't see why he'd be required to be made of anything.

[JackC 0]

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Until you die. Then, if you die in your sin, you will be sent to hell. Complete separation from God's grace. Damnation. Lake of fire. The pit. Where the worm never dies. Unquenchable thirst. Conscious torment for eternity.

I laugh in the face of your feeble threats. haha.

Seriously though, life without gods grace... I'm not seeing the downside. I mean it's not like I missed anything so far.