SpeedRacer 1 #1 June 13, 2007 I have noticed while surfing around the net lately, that Ron Paul seems to be garnering more & more attention. I've also noticed a fair amount of libertarian-ish sentiment on these forums, at least in some areas. So would you vote for Ron Paul if you thought he had a chance of winning (not saying that he doesn't.)? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 June 13, 2007 No. Lemme expand on that. He's a nutcase. He may -sound- reasonable, until you actually look at the things he wants to do. While I can imagine some of them being -wildly- popular with some members of the Republican Party, if he thinks he can actually -do- them, he's clearly delusional. For instance, in the May 3, 2007, GOP Debate, Paul stated that as President, he would immediately seek the abolition of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the abolition of the income tax. Gimme a break.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #3 June 13, 2007 QuoteI've also noticed a fair amount of libertarian-ish sentiment on these forums, at least in some areas. DUDE most of those are right wing neo cons who are ashamed to call themselves what they are nowadays....libertarians... my ass Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #4 June 13, 2007 I wasn't talking about the neo-cons. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #5 June 13, 2007 Quote Quote I've also noticed a fair amount of libertarian-ish sentiment on these forums, at least in some areas. DUDE most of those are right wing neo cons who are ashamed to call themselves what they are nowadays....libertarians... my ass I feel the love. LOL Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #6 June 13, 2007 QuoteFor instance, in the May 3, 2007, GOP Debate, Paul stated that as President, he would immediately seek the abolition of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the abolition of the income tax. This has been alway been a goal of the libertarian Party. Abolishing the IRS and moving to a FairTax is a Growing movement in this country and make alot of sence to alot of people. And Yes I would Vote for Ron Paul! (again, Just like I did in 1988. I worked at Libertarian National Convention that year that was held in Atlanta at the Metroplex where he accepted the nomination. He made alot of great points then, He makes even more now) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #7 June 13, 2007 There's nothing fair about FairTax. It's a misnomer like "The Clean Air Act" or "The Patriot Act". It's a scam designed to, once again, make the rich, richer and the middle, poorer.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #8 June 13, 2007 Quote Quote I've also noticed a fair amount of libertarian-ish sentiment on these forums, at least in some areas. DUDE most of those are right wing neo cons who are ashamed to call themselves what they are nowadays....libertarians... my ass So now I'm a neo-con. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #9 June 13, 2007 QuoteThere's nothing fair about FairTax. Please explain what's not "fair" about it and how the current structure is more "fair" (if you believe that to be the case). Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #10 June 13, 2007 QuoteNo. Lemme expand on that. He's a nutcase. He may -sound- reasonable, until you actually look at the things he wants to do. While I can imagine some of them being -wildly- popular with some members of the Republican Party, if he thinks he can actually -do- them, he's clearly delusional. For instance, in the May 3, 2007, GOP Debate, Paul stated that as President, he would immediately seek the abolition of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the abolition of the income tax. Gimme a break. I think it's about heading in the right direction. Back in '92 Ross Perot was talking about taking huge cuts to balance the federal budget. People derided his ideas as pure fantasy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #11 June 13, 2007 Quote There's nothing fair about FairTax. It's a misnomer like "The Clean Air Act" or "The Patriot Act". It's a scam designed to, once again, make the rich richer and and poor poorer. Thank you for that enlightenment. With such clear, well thought out and substantiated claims as that, I will certainly withdraw my support immediately. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #12 June 13, 2007 Corporations and the very wealthy would pay only a small fraction of what they currently pay and the middle class would take up and slack. To me, that's pretty unfair.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #13 June 13, 2007 QuoteCorporations and the very wealthy would pay only a small fraction of what they currently pay and the middle class would take up and slack. To me, that's pretty unfair. That assumes the current tax burden is fairly distributed (without bias) across the spectrum. I'd say it's unfairly allotted, with the wealthy paying a disproportionate amount. I'm currently working the equivalent of two full time jobs. What definition of fairness suggests that I should pay more than twice the taxes of someone working only one of these jobs? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #14 June 13, 2007 Corporations dont pay Tax. The very wealthy dont pay much in taxes. See every penny Corporations get comes from a Consumer somewhere along the line. If you Tax them, it just gets passed on to the consumer. Corporations do not pay taxes, Consumers do. (Generally the Poor and middle class you are trying to protect). The very wealthy hire lawyers, Accountants, Tax pros that know how to manipulate the current Tax code. They hide income, Use tax shelters and other gimmicks that generally get them out of paying their share. This is part of why the current system is not working. too many loopholes. FairTax closes those loopholes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #15 June 13, 2007 QuoteCorporations dont pay Tax. The very wealthy dont pay much in taxes. See every penny Corporations get comes from a Consumer somewhere along the line. If you Tax them, it just gets passed on to the consumer. Corporations do not pay taxes, Consumers do. (Generally the Poor and middle class you are trying to protect). The very wealthy hire lawyers, Accountants, Tax pros that know how to manipulate the current Tax code. They hide income, Use tax shelters and other gimmicks that generally get them out of paying their share. This is part of why the current system is not working. too many loopholes. FairTax closes those loopholes. Really? Where is the part of the FairTax bill that prevents them from earning the FairTax free money here and then transfering it overseas and spending it there? Kinda seems like a loophole to me.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #16 June 13, 2007 QuoteQuoteI've also noticed a fair amount of libertarian-ish sentiment on these forums, at least in some areas. DUDE most of those are right wing neo cons who are ashamed to call themselves what they are nowadays....libertarians... my ass How about anarchists? Or classical liberals? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,009 #17 June 13, 2007 >I'd say it's unfairly allotted, with the wealthy paying a disproportionate amount. Any workable tax scheme has the wealthy paying a disproportionate amount. The only truly 100% fair tax is to send every adult in the US a bill for about $13,000 a year. If you can't pay it you go to prison. That's unworkable; a big fraction of the US would be in prison, and who would pay for the thousands of jails required, the millions of guards etc. So we have schemes whereby the wealthy pay more, because they can afford to. >What definition of fairness suggests that I should pay more than twice >the taxes of someone working only one of these jobs? Get even more wealthy. The wealthiest 400 people in the US pay about 17% of their income in taxes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #18 June 13, 2007 QuoteHow about anarchists? Or classical liberals? Nope.. Havent seen them apologizing for this Republican Administrations short comings for the last 6 years.. not once...only the ones out there claiming to be libertarian.. but defending every incomptetent move the buttstains in Washington have made. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #19 June 13, 2007 QuoteReally? Where is the part of the FairTax bill that prevents them from earning the FairTax free money here and then transfering it overseas and spending it there? Are you so focused "on Stick it to the Rich" that you would do it at the expense of the poor and middle class? The reality is that most every one would save by the FairTax system. Just abolishing the IRS alone would save Americans over 10 Billion a year (Translates to $900 per person per year for every man woman and child in the US). The Fairtax system does not tax necessities such as Food, Housing and Clothing. This is where the majority of the Poor and Middle Class spend their money. Add that to fact they are no longer paying Income Tax (an effective 20% to 30% immediate pay increase as people get to keep their entire paycheck) and basic necessities are not taxed the average American family would pay less in Taxes. If the Rich save some too, Well good for them. As for the Rich not paying their share. You think they pay their share now? Not a chance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #20 June 13, 2007 Quote Quote How about anarchists? Or classical liberals? Nope.. Havent seen them apologizing for this Republican Administrations short comings for the last 6 years.. not once...only the ones out there claiming to be libertarian.. but defending every incomptetent move the buttstains in Washington have made. Who are you talking about? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #21 June 13, 2007 If you abolish the IRS, who will make sure the Tax is "fair"? State Sales tax board would have to expand exponenitally to cover this. You would then have 50 mini-IRS's. The biggest glaring problem with any of these alternative taxation is it's simple. I get a feeling that the real motivation behind these programs is that people are too lazy to read and research themselves when it comes to tax time. Someone throws out something that is "groundbreaking" and "new" and people assume that these things have never been thought up many times over. I'm confident that this has been thought up before by at least one undergrad student every semester in different forms in U. S. Taxation history but quickly discarded because if it's naiveity and lack of understanding on human nature, money, cost of the U. S. doing businesses. The biggest problem I see with this type of taxation is that it relies on the buying of new goods. You don't have to be a financial genius to understand the repercussions of what happens during "Fear of spending" periods. I see a lot of trading going on between business owners and corporation to curtail these taxes. How is one Bill going to correct what took about a hundred years be near perfection? What's wrong with the current Tax Codes? Too Complicated? Favors the Rich? It better. The rich are the ones that provide the most jobs. They own the companies and majority of the shares of Corporations. They provide the infastructure to employ all non-govt people, providing the resources to be taxed. They may only pay "17%" but they provide Hundreds of billions of tax revenue. Middle class mostly earn W-2 wages. If they save money, they decrease tax revenue. I'm willing to bet that the supporters of this bill are 100% W-2 reported._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #22 June 13, 2007 "What's wrong with the current Tax Codes? Too Complicated?"---------------------------------------------------Donno. Here they are. http://www.fourmilab.ch/uscode/26usc/www/contents.html How long do you think it would take to read and comprehend it? Even people that work at the fuckin IRS don't know most of it. It definitely needs an overhaul.I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #23 June 13, 2007 Yep, agreed. It definately needs an overhaul, but that DOESN'T mean that what "FairTax" proposes is the way we should go.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
algboy 0 #24 June 13, 2007 Quote No. Lemme expand on that. He's a nutcase. He may -sound- reasonable, until you actually look at the things he wants to do. While I can imagine some of them being -wildly- popular with some members of the Republican Party, if he thinks he can actually -do- them, he's clearly delusional. For instance, in the May 3, 2007, GOP Debate, Paul stated that as President, he would immediately seek the abolition of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the abolition of the income tax. Gimme a break. “When a true genius appears in this world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.” -- Swift (1706); Thoughts on Various Subjects Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #25 June 13, 2007 Quote...Really? Where is the part of the FairTax bill that prevents them from earning the FairTax free money here and then transfering it overseas and spending it there? Kinda seems like a loophole to me. I hope to hell there is nothing there that prevents me from spending my freakin' money wherever I wish. If you see that as a "loophole", I hope you are a minority of one.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
